ZNY looses radar

[HPNPilot1200]

ZNY loses radar

Just got an e-mail from a friend stating that ZNY radar is OTS. ...that's right, no radar, no handoffs, etc, etc...

They're trying, from what my friend can hear, to give completely different routes to a/c that are below 10,000 MSL. APP still has radar (feeds off HPN, JFK, and EWR), but the center is blind.

Boston Center Feed:
http://audio.liveatc.net:8012/zbw_test.m3u
NY Approach Feed:
http://audio.liveatc.net:8012/jfk_app_dep.m3u


Here is delay info from the FAA:

DELAY INFO
ARPT AD DD TIME REASON
EWR +90 2133 ZNY RADAR FAILURE
JFK +30 2113 ZNY RADAR FAILURE
LGA +90 2101 ZNY RADAR FAILURE
TEB +75 2055 ZNY RADAR FAILURE

GROUND STOPS

ARPT UPDATE POE SCOPE REASON ADVZY
EWR 2200 MED NOWEST +CZY_AP EQUIPMENT/ZNY COMPUTER FAILURE 046
LGA 2159 MED NOWEST+CZY_AP EQUIPMENT/COMPUTER FAILURE

I hope ZNY gets some engineers to fix the scopes soon! ...busy airspace out there! Luckily ZNY is one of the "smaller" centers, but does indeed have a large amount of traffic flow. It doesn't make a difference for the oceanic controller though! They must be sitting and laughing about the area controllers not having radar.

Jason

 

[mikea]

Re: ZNY loses radar

O'Hare had the same problem yesterday when O'Hare lost the "phone line" to Chicago TRACON.

Radar outage delays flights to O'Hare

Flights bound for O'Hare Airport were delayed Monday afternoon after a telephone line used by air-traffic controllers was cut during routine maintenance, the Federal Aviation Administration said.

Delays for arriving flights averaged 15 minutes and were as much as an hour and a half for some flights, the FAA reported. Poor weather in the area also didn't help matters.

The telephone line, which was severed about 3:30 p.m., links communications between O'Hare and a radar facility in Elgin that controllers use to direct air traffic in and out of the Chicago area.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-ohare07.html

Maybe they'll outsource to India to get better reliability.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Re: ZNY loses radar

Maybe they'll outsource to India to get better reliability.

Oh, don't make me, Mike!

<g>

 

[tonycondon]

Re: ZNY loses radar

happens fairly often with minneapolis. course radar coverage in northern iowa is lousy anyway, due to a couple hills south of the radar up in minnesota. good for IR training in non radar environment though.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

From a ZNY controller....

Ok, here's the scoop. The FAA has been training and trying to implement a new system called URET which is a computer based system to replace the paper strips we have been using since the dawn of aviation. Well, URET had a flight plan for a Piedmont flight that didn't include a departure or destination airport. It didn't know what to do when the plane landed so it locked up and took the main computer down with it.

The backup sysytem, DARC, was not online so it took about 20 minutes before we had accurate displays and radar feeds. Then about 1/2 hour later we went back to the main system.. it hiccupped a few times over the next half hour. We went offline with Washington Center and had to manually coordinate flights coming to and fro for a while. Then everything settled down.

Bottom line is, the radar sites were working but the main, what we call the HOST computer, in New York Center crashed. A bit of a scramble during the worst of it but at least no planes conflicted with each other and everyone eventually got to their destination safely.

Just goes to show you what glitches the real system faces each day....

 

[Everskyward]

Methinks the backup system ought to be called something besides DARC.

Ahhh, computers...

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Methinks the backup system ought to be called something besides DARC.

Ahhh, computers...

What!?! You don't like DARC (Direct Access Radar Channel)??

It's actually more dangerous to go to DARC (backup) since you lose the Conflict Alert function on the backup system. The Conflict Alert program continuously projects the flight path of aircraft. If it detects a conflict with another aircraft, it causes both of the data blocks to flash on the scope. When DARC is being used, it does not IIRC.

The Operational Error Detection Program also doesn't work in DARC. In other words, the "snitch machine" doesn't alert the manager at the front desk that an Operational Error had occurred.

...and why the **** I know this?? Well...I just can't give you a sane answer for that one!

Take your pick,
Jason

 

[Everskyward]

In other words, the "snitch machine" doesn't alert the manager at the front desk that an Operational Error had occurred.

Oh yeah, the "snitch machine". You had to remind me of that.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

So does everyone go to giving position reports during these outages? Ha, good practice!

 

[Greebo]

Well, URET had a flight plan for a Piedmont flight that didn't include a departure or destination airport. It didn't know what to do when the plane landed so it locked up and took the main computer down with it.

I'd be critical of the software developers over this one if I didn't have so much personal experience in unintentionally writings bugs like this.

 

[wsuffa]

I'd be critical of the software developers over this one if I didn't have so much personal experience in unintentionally writings bugs like this.

You would shudder if you had an idea of how much of a mess most of that ATC code is. Really.

Ex-wife worked as programmer for IBM when they were deep in the AAS project (google that)....

 

[grattonja]

I wondered what was up yesterday. I was with Harrisburg Approach and they were telling lots of people that they couldn't give handoffs, etc due to a problem with ZNY radar. Ouch.

Jim G

 

[rpadula]

Well, URET had a flight plan for a Piedmont flight that didn't include a departure or destination airport. It didn't know what to do when the plane landed so it locked up and took the main computer down with it.

I'd be critical of the software developers over this one if I didn't have so much personal experience in unintentionally writings bugs like this.

What? Like not checking if yer pointer == NULL?

-Rich