your difficult maneuver

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Peter Ha, Nov 26, 2019.

  1. Half Fast

    Half Fast Final Approach

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    Yes, but my CFI’s chants were always Gregorian. And he seemed to be fingering a string of beads the entire time I was flying...
     
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  2. ateamer

    ateamer Line Up and Wait

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    Pitch stays the same. AOA, therefore back pressure, increases as speed decreases.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
  3. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    We are discussing the first 90° of the turn, leading up to “There’s 90°” in the chant.

    Here’s a description of the first half of a chandelle:

    “The pilot enters a chandelle at a pre-determined airspeed in the normal cruising range for the aircraft. To begin the maneuver the pilot first rolls the aircraft in the desired direction with the controls (the ailerons), and quickly but smoothly establishes a medium-banked turn. In most small aircraft (cruising speeds of 100–175 KIAS) this bank will be about 30° to 40°. This will begin a turn of the aircraft in the direction of bank. Simultaneously, full power is applied and a smooth pitch up is started with the controls (the elevators on the empennage). The angle of bank stays constant during the first 90° of the change of heading, while the pitch angle increases steadily. At the 90° point in the change of heading, the aircraft has the maximum pitch angle (which should be close to the critical angle of attack at the level stall speed of the aircraft).”

    Now, the pitch should, in fact, stay the same for the second 90° of turn, but that’s not what I was addressing, which was the “hold pitch” chant prior to the 90° point.
     
  4. N1120A

    N1120A Pattern Altitude

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    Power on stalls were a PITA for me, at first. Eventually I figured them out.

    Try cold starting an Arrow with plugs fouled by guys who flooded it a million times with 100W oil and a weak battery.

    Jason Miller makes Lazy 8s so easy.
     
  5. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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  6. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    Steep turns to the left. And add me to the list of Lazy 8’s for commercial maneuvers. I felt redeemed to see that one mentioned so many times. I thought it was just me
     
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  7. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    I’m a big dude, I can push it down lol. There’s still not much point in the ground effect part
     
  8. Luscombe8fan

    Luscombe8fan Filing Flight Plan

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    Two quick questions for everyone:

    Is it acceptable to add or reduce power on the descending Lazy Eight portion?

    If the manufacturer doesn't have recommendation power settings, do you have to go to full power on Chandelles?

    I couldn't find my answer in the airplane flying handbook.

    Thanks in advance!
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
  9. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Emergency landings. I was always high. In retrospect, I think it might be cause we trained where there were few really good fields, so it required you to be spot on. I got to where I was ok, but the first one I absolutely nailed was on my checkride.
     
  10. Half Fast

    Half Fast Final Approach

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    High is better than low. I try to be high on final for an emergency landing, then slip as necessary to get down. If you're too low on final, you're screwed.
     
  11. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    No and yes.
     
  12. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    @Peter Ha - When I was learning Steeps my CFI asked, "How you doing?" I said, "Not good." He took the yoke and asked what was wrong. I said I wasn't holding bank or altitude. He said, "I meant how are you feeling?" I said I'd feel better when I do it right. We had a good laugh and went back to crappy Steeps for a while.
     
  13. Salty

    Salty Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    Not really. The one time I thought I might have a real issue and tried to land without touching the throttle, I kept thinking what you just said and I ended up WAY too high and nearly ran off the end of the runway.... even holding a slip all the way down.....

    I've done a hundred simulations, and I have a glider rating, and the one time I did it for real I botched it by being too high. I stopped with a little runway left and turned out there was no major issue, but it taught me a lesson.
     
  14. Luscombe8fan

    Luscombe8fan Filing Flight Plan

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    I am flying the commercial maneuvers in an RV. Many of the VFR maneuvers are energy gaining. Meaning coming out faster or higher than starting. This is common with some of the acro maneuvers as well.
     
  15. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    You need to find the correct starting speed/power and target pitch so that the Lazy 8 comes out without a power change.
     
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  16. smv

    smv Cleared for Takeoff

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    Hands down and without a doubt: Autorotation. Nothing I have ever done in any fixed wing -- be it Glider, ASEL, ASES, or AMEL -- come anywhere near being as difficult.
     
  17. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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    Really? Weird. I have always felt that autorotation to a landing is an extremely simple process. Your options are very limited, so you need to focus on setting up the landing.

    Was maintaining rotor RPM the difficult part for you? That can be distracting.
     
  18. smv

    smv Cleared for Takeoff

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    Yes... I was SO worried about overspeeding the rotor that I was never able to fully concentrate on the rest of the process... Although the CFI deemed me worthy of Solo Flight, I never really felt comfortable with autorotation. Unfortunatley after only four hours of solo the school went bankrupt and I was never able to finish my training. The cool thing is that it was twelve years ago and I am STILL paying off that loan. (Thanks, Jerry). :mad:
     
  19. Chip Sylverne

    Chip Sylverne Final Approach

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    Fear is the poison of our lives.
    I dislike accelerated stalls. The hardest one for me to perform well is the Chandelle. Haven't tried for quite some time, don't miss it.
     
  20. falconkidding

    falconkidding Line Up and Wait

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    Lazy 8s. If I fly them lazy then i'm either fast or high My work around was to fly it at like 2000 rpm and use the margins to pass the maneuver. If I fly them super aggressive(30 in pitch 60 in bank) then I could hit my starting alts/speeds on the nose all day long.
     
  21. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Did you try the aggressive pitch with 30 bank?
     
  22. Mjg2011

    Mjg2011 Filing Flight Plan

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    When I was training for my private, my stalls were aweful and I couldn't hold altitude during my steep turns. Once I started looking outside it got so much easier. Just wish I would've learned that before my checkride.
     
  23. falconkidding

    falconkidding Line Up and Wait

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    I did but the DPE emphasized that it was a "LAZY" maneuver when I was working on my commercial so my CFI and I worked out the low power slow thing and just hoped I only had to do just two turns of the lazy 8 lol.. My CFI initial DPE though wanted it done aggressively though which was fine with me.
     
  24. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Your DPE was clueless, apparently.

    nothing new under the sun, though...the DPE for my CFI checkride 30 years ago complained mightily about how many people thought that’s why it was called that...and the real reason was still in the AFH at the time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  25. Luscombe8fan

    Luscombe8fan Filing Flight Plan

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    wow. 30 years. How much duel given do you have now?
     
  26. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Dueling has rules...I prefer unfair advantages when I fight. ;)

    Only about 500 hours of Part 61 dual given...probably up to about 6000 hours under Part 135 & Part 142.
     
  27. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

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    you will only do that once. remember, you cannot set the record for low flying you can only tie it!
     
  28. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

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    trying to keep the bank angle less than 85 degrees in the pattern............
     
  29. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Pretty tough to do some days in the summertime, even if you’re not pointed toward the Sun.
     
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  30. Unkljohn

    Unkljohn Pre-Flight

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    Steep turns took forever for me to be able to do them up to standard.