You know, I typically try to cut the younger generation some slack...

I have an idea. If the child misbehaves, spank mommy! It may not change any behavior, but it’s a lot more fun.
Oh, wait! This an airplane forum, never mind.
 
There is a proper time and place for a good old fashioned as* whooping. I have no problem with them being handed out. But, it is not the first form of discipline that should be used. It is the last resort. If I have to spank my kids now, they are still young, all I have to do is tell them it’s going to happen. Or simply walk to get a belt, by the time I’m back, their attitudes are surprisingly corrected.
 
That's all you got huh? Okay then.

http://www.fairvote.org/right_to_vote_faq

"American adults living in states typically can vote, but they do not have a federally protected right to vote enshrined in the Constitution. States protect the right to vote to different degrees based on the state’s constitutional language and statutes. The federal government traditionally only steps in to prevent certain broad abuses, such as denying the right to vote based on race (15th Amendment), sex (19th Amendment), or age (26th Amendment)..."
 
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Timbeck2 said:
That's all you got huh?
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No, I have questions.
Do you believe that only those rights "enshrined in the Constitution" are the rights that are guaranteed by that Constitution?
Do you believe that a financial or educational test of eligibility such as have been suggested on POA would not be seen as a "broad abuse [sic]?"

Nauga,
chilled
 
timwinters said:
Aren't we all!?!? :cheers:

As Dr Bruce said a couple of years ago as we were sitting at Gaston's watching the powered parachute guys play, "it's amazing any man ever makes it to adulthood."
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Was that before or after the parachute fell from the sky?
 
nauga said:
No, I have questions.
Do you believe that only those rights "enshrined in the Constitution" are the rights that are guaranteed by that Constitution?
Do you believe that a financial or educational test of eligibility such as have been suggested on POA would not be seen as a "broad abuse [sic]?"

Nauga,
chilled
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(Chilled as well by the way) No, but I don't believe you can simply just dream up a right and have it covered by the 9th amendment. If you bothered to read my link you would see that I'm not the first to realize that citizens are not by the constitution, guaranteed the right to vote in presidential elections.

As far as your second question, as were already skirting the line on the rules of this forum regarding the P word, I'll refrain from an answer. My opinion doesn't matter.
 
Tantalum said:
I'm late to this party. Looks like someone pulled Tim's ejection handle? Thread popped up in my feed though so I got myself caught up

Both sides of this story exemplify poor behavior and judgment

1.) the artist saying his sculpture is worth $132,000 because that's what he thinks it is worth, well that is completely asinine. Something is "worth" what a buyer is willing to pay. Art can be hard to appraise, but you don't determine something's value by that approach. If, this artist is well know and has a history of his sculptures going for that much, and they were genuinely expecting it to sell for that amount, then there should have been some additional care taken to guard it. Even if it was anchored down it should have at least had something else to keep a safe distance

2.) take care of your children (that doesn't mean carte blanche let them do whatever). So many people make such horrid parents, and are very "hands off" with their children. One of my top 5 pet peeves are sitting in a restaurant and hearing some kid absolutely going bonkers and the parents seem totally oblivious to it.. usually this kid also has an ipad out and about 3 other toys, and a giant mess of food around them too. There's one thing to respect your child's autonomy, but guess what, you are also the adult, and it squarely, 100% your responsibility to ensure your child is raised proper, with respect, etc., and lead by example. The parent, by default, could not have been "closely supervising" her child if she had to run down the hall after hearing a commotion. You should be extra vigilant especially around expensive items.

Anyway, this story tells you everything you need to know about what is wrong with world

PS, when I went to dinner with my folks growing up (going off topic now, sorry) I didn't have a hundred toys with me. I was taught that when you eat with adults you act like an adult. You sit up straight, enjoy the food, and participate in conversation when appropriate. Am I just some kind of freak that I grew up in a household like that?
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Couldn't agree more. And no, or rather, if you are a freak a lot of us also are.

I can recall the incredible length of time being bored out of my skull, having eaten and while the adults all talk, have coffee, a cigarette or two, etc. having to sit there "as an adult" but not quite, since I was not allowed to interrupt, or given a lot of leeway in starting a discussion as the adults were. In those days, it wasn't a "crime" for a kid to have to sit there being bored. Boredom was part of life. It sure made the time just after when one finally got to DO something a LOT more exciting and huge relief. It seems now boredom is banished, and keeping it at bay for kids trumps everything.
I find it kind of funny now, as a kid I was not allowed to interrupt adults (I wasn't perfect, I still did, but it wasn't allowed, unless you got them to smile or laugh with it) and now as an adult, kids often do...

Also the toys, the total fear of having the child get bored.

I also believe the artist jacked up the price, the venue had a responsibility (specially if it really is worth anywhere near that) not just to kid-proof, but to solidly mount it to the display. That thing toppled so easily it could have happened to an adult, or someone who jostled it, etc.
 
I don't think that leaving a young child unattended is any way to parent.....that's just asking for this sort of outcome.

However, I don't really agree with the idea of "I got lots of good whoopings as a kid and that taught me to behave". If you are a s**thead, does a beating really teach you a lesson that will result in a change in behavior? I don't know for sure, but I'd submit that it doesn't. It might make your behavior more evasive or devious in nature, but it isn't going to change who you are. I think the vast majority of people who cling to this statement on this board fundamentally rest firmly in the category of "I want to do the right thing in life", and needed a little rudder steering like any young kid without much awareness beyond themselves needs. By that I mean that you all would have probably responded to other types of "punishments" in a similar manner. I say that because I am like most of you, and I was that way. I got spanked exactly once, by my depression era grandmother who was actually much more progressive than really anyone I've ever met from her generation. That incident involved me biting her on the butt, as a toddler, and making her bleed through her white pants. Beyond that, I was never spanked, much less beaten. I didn't turn into some out of control child, and I think I have been somewhat successful in life, without ever getting involved in drugs/crime/misbehavior. My wife and I also don't spank our kid, and while we get a lot of comments about how well behaved he is, I know the truth. He freaks out every single day about something in private, or multiple things. And you handle it with the tone of your voice that tells him you are serious. You handle it with threats that aren't empty (probably the biggest error I see in other parents.........follow through with the threat if you are going to make it). You handle it sometimes by explaining your decision rationally so that he understands why his behavior isn't ok, or why it is hurtful to others. Most of the crappy parents I know just get angry, yell a bunch, allow themselves to be on the same irrational level as their toddlers, make empty threats, and I guess involve violence in that process that actually teaches the kid nothing. I'm not saying that a spanking or maybe a "whipping" (in southern culture) can't be effective, but it has to be paired with the appropriate demeanor. If you are just an angry parent hitting your kid, that kid will either turn out ok if he would have anyway regardless of the nature of your punishment, or he won't if he was naturally just an a hole, in which case it will make him act out even more.
 
Without getting too philosophical in my experience the best mannered adults, and children, I see and meet, are those that respect their parents and each other. Respect goes a long way in this world and it's been mostly lost unfortunately. Show someone a little respect and it tends to be mutual and will go a long way

Senator
Officer
Mr.President
Mr.
Sir
Mrs.
Ms.
Etc.
^you hear less and less of that and more and more first name, or derogatory stuff..

LongRoadBob said:
It seems now boredom is banished
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Indeed. Like you said, boredom makes you appreciate the non-bored times and helps creativity, in my opinion. No computers or Gameboys growing up, my friends and I played outside, built forts, broke bones, got stitches, but most of all had loads of fun. Now most people are just drones. Adults too, Instagram, Facebook, etc., can be toxic

35 AoA said:
If you are a s**thead, does a beating really teach you a lesson that will result in a change in behavior?
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Probably not.. but if you are a s**thead then what's the root cause? Genetic/medical, or is it lack of respect, something else? Kids tend to emulate their parents, the apple generally doesn't fall far!

In my experience it was the *threat* of punishment and disappointing your parents that kept me (mostly) straight edge. Granted, I knew some ****ty kids growing up and they didn't care one way or another what their parents thought.. so who knows
 
35 AoA said:
I don't think that leaving a young child unattended is any way to parent.....that's just asking for this sort of outcome.

However, I don't really agree with the idea of "I got lots of good whoopings as a kid and that taught me to behave". If you are a s**thead, does a beating really teach you a lesson that will result in a change in behavior? I don't know for sure, but I'd submit that it doesn't. It might make your behavior more evasive or devious in nature, but it isn't going to change who you are. I think the vast majority of people who cling to this statement on this board fundamentally rest firmly in the category of "I want to do the right thing in life", and needed a little rudder steering like any young kid without much awareness beyond themselves needs. By that I mean that you all would have probably responded to other types of "punishments" in a similar manner. I say that because I am like most of you, and I was that way. I got spanked exactly once, by my depression era grandmother who was actually much more progressive than really anyone I've ever met from her generation. That incident involved me biting her on the butt, as a toddler, and making her bleed through her white pants. Beyond that, I was never spanked, much less beaten. I didn't turn into some out of control child, and I think I have been somewhat successful in life, without ever getting involved in drugs/crime/misbehavior. My wife and I also don't spank our kid, and while we get a lot of comments about how well behaved he is, I know the truth. He freaks out every single day about something in private, or multiple things. And you handle it with the tone of your voice that tells him you are serious. You handle it with threats that aren't empty (probably the biggest error I see in other parents.........follow through with the threat if you are going to make it). You handle it sometimes by explaining your decision rationally so that he understands why his behavior isn't ok, or why it is hurtful to others. Most of the crappy parents I know just get angry, yell a bunch, allow themselves to be on the same irrational level as their toddlers, make empty threats, and I guess involve violence in that process that actually teaches the kid nothing. I'm not saying that a spanking or maybe a "whipping" (in southern culture) can't be effective, but it has to be paired with the appropriate demeanor. If you are just an angry parent hitting your kid, that kid will either turn out ok if he would have anyway regardless of the nature of your punishment, or he won't if he was naturally just an a hole, in which case it will make him act out even more.
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You bit your grandma on the butt?

Different strokes and all. I was spanked, my daughters were spanked. None of us were ever beaten and we are well behaved and respectful people. Most of the "a holes" as you call them, that I've met in my life were seldom if ever disciplined as a child.
 
Timbeck2 said:
You bit your grandma on the butt?

Different strokes and all. I was spanked, my daughters were spanked. None of us were ever beaten and we are well behaved and respectful people. Most of the "a holes" as you call them, that I've met in my life were seldom if ever disciplined as a child.
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I was spanked and belted when I was a kid. I didn't bite my grandma on the butt but I do remember repeatedly yelling "breastisis" at the top of my lungs at my step mom.
 
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There's Respect, and then there's respect. Most politicians are not respectable people, I agree. At the same time, I feel like I'm not adding any value by taking a cheap shot at someone's name. I just try and do my small part with the votes I cast
 
My late night response may have not exactly conveyed what I was trying to see. I DO absolutely agree that letting kids do whatever/anything they want is a recipe for a disaster with even the most naturally easy going kid. My argument was not that discipline isn't important; with as many parents that I know who have adopted any of the myriad new age parenting techniques (which are effectively "let them do what they want"), I have seen first hand how embarrassingly out of control their kids are when let loose into the wild. To the contrary, I think discipline is highly important, just that it doesn't need to be physical to be effective. And I think "respect" is effectively the root of what we are talking about. Great point about observing parents behavior......I don't think you can overstress that enough. If you are disrespectful to people (and I'm talking about anyone, not just the child) as a parent, that is absolutely teaching your kids that such behavior is acceptable. Some might argue that hitting your child teaches them that it is ok to hurt others physically.....I don't personally buy into that unless we are actually talking domestic abuse, and even then, I think there is quite some variance as to how that child will behave as an adult. But I don't really think the physical punishment aspect is that important if you are already doing the other things right. As mentioned previously, even though I wasn't spanked, I still respected my parents, I still adhered to their rules (as much as any kid does), and I certainly didn't want to disappoint them. Maybe my own experience creates a bias for me on this topic, and obviously there isn't one correct answer for all children. However I still think the point about how you behave yourself sets 90% of the stage towards teaching your kid respectable behavior.
 
denverpilot said:
Politicians deserve zero respect. Just narcissists who won a never ending high school popularity contest based upon incessant lies. Screw ‘em.
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I agree about most of the current crop. Politicians who disrespect the voters with lies which just minimum research show are lies. Those who are against something merely because "the other party" backs it rather than whether the policy is sensible. If a politician wants my respect, they should respect me as well.

And then people swallow the lies because "they like what they hear" and vote for the liars anyway, even though one can't really tell what they stand for (they lied to you, remember?). On certain issues related to national security, lying and misdirection may be appropriate, but only after due consideration of the consequences.
Tantalum said:
There's Respect, and then there's respect. Most politicians are not respectable people, I agree. At the same time, I feel like I'm not adding any value by taking a cheap shot at someone's name. I just try and do my small part with the votes I cast
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I try to do so as well, but the choices seem awfully limited this year at the federal level.
 
Art Rose said:
All these "high and mightys" are clueless. Some children, no matter how hard you try to teach right from wrong, no matter what you do, will force you to fail. You need to be thankful those children are a very small minority. My bad seed has been a screwed up mess his entire life. It's sad. Until you've had, or tried to raise one of these children, you need to stop blaming the parents, and shut up.
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Even a wild stallion can be tamed to do anything you ask of that horse without a whipping or a beating, it take time and patience and practice, and you are saying you can't tame your kid to do what want them to do right? Which is it lack of time, patience and practice or all three ?
The bad seed needs more time patience and care than the good seed.
 
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