You civilian guys...

Tools

Tools

Pattern Altitude
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Tools
My hat’s off. It’s HARD! I’m Navy gone 121, with a mil Comp CFI/II.

About the most challenging thing I’ve done in aviation was set up a brand new 141 school. I have 2 instructors. Between the 3 of us, one attended a 141 school, zero recommendations, zero complete nothing to private completions, half a dozen solos, zero experience working at a 141 school. The only FED or DPE checkride I’ve ever taken was my ATP (guy who catered to military guys, so didn’t really count) and my initial 121 captain upgrade. AND TODAY. Basically a private pilot checkride. Kinda sorta took three attempts!

It’s crazy how much I didn’t know all these years.

So just wanted pay y’all some credit. I have a new found respect for the self motivated and funded private pilot. Bravo!

AND sending my first student for her checkride next week! Woo hoo!
 
Congrats! Setting up a new business can be rewarding, but I think it's always stressful. You meet more people with their hand out than you would ever think possible.
 
Hehe, you speak truth!! Wow.
 
My friend started a part 61 flight school in JAX a couple years ago. I don’t know where he finds the time. He still flys part time for his employer there and then has to run a flight school full time. I’m too lazy to put in that much work.:D
 
It’s been my experience that when you try to make a business out of something you love doing, you only get to spend about 10% of your time doing what you love, and 90% doing all the necessary business and legal crap.

And your point is valid. Privately pursuing pilot certificates and aircraft ownership is a pretty steep hill. But many of us manage it.
 
Velocity173 said:
My friend started a part 61 flight school in JAX a couple years ago. I don’t know where he finds the time. He still flys part time for his employer there and then has to run a flight school full time. I’m too lazy to put in that much work.:D
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My post .mil employment goals are work less, get paid more.
 
TCABM said:
My post .mil employment goals are work less, get paid more.
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Same here. Doesn’t mean I don’t admire those that start their own business’s though. A lot of time, work and some cases your own money on the line. Think I’ll stick to playing it safe and just let people pay me to fly. ;)
 
Half Fast said:
It’s been my experience that when you try to make a business out of something you love doing, you only get to spend about 10% of your time doing what you love, and 90% doing all the necessary business and legal crap.

And your point is valid. Privately pursuing pilot certificates and aircraft ownership is a pretty steep hill. But many of us manage it.
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That is 100% true, at least in my experience. I've always been into music. Writing, producing, composing, playing the piano. Spent hours on it well into my 20s. Mid 20s, I turned it into a business. At first, I did all of it even more but as the business grew, doing the actual music part became less and less for me. Running the business, fundraising, hiring, firing, all the other fun stuff took up more space over the years. Nowadays, I spend less than 10% on music. Probably closer to 1%.

The good thing is, I actually enjoy the business stuff as much, if not even more than making music (I now even consult other businesses), so it doesn't bother me. It did at first but now, I'm cool with it. If I just could find more time for flying and traveling lol... Always something I guess.

To the OP: Good luck with your flight school. Starting and running your own business, at least to me, is the most rewarding feat I've accomplished. Second one is probably my pilot's license and aircraft ownership :)
 
Tools, congrats on your school, and I hope you get a kick out of helping new people into the air!
 
Half Fast said:
It’s been my experience that when you try to make a business out of something you love doing, you only get to spend about 10% of your time doing what you love, and 90% doing all the necessary business and legal crap.

And your point is valid. Privately pursuing pilot certificates and aircraft ownership is a pretty steep hill. But many of us manage it.
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I would love to know your secret for getting up to 10%. :D

==

Kudos on the 141 establishment, that's no joke either. Fed critters are some real slippery eels and (at least at my FSDO) seem engineered to get you to go away more than to help with the business at hand. We waited 3 years to even get "heard" for our 141, and once we got rolling it felt like one continuous itchy eye-roll from everyone involved.
 
I went through the .mil flying pipeline after getting my Private certificate. The .mil was a completely different beast that focused on more practical flying stuff and less on "minutiae." Just my opinion, YMMV.
 
Rich Holt said:
The first part I found to be easier to find, but harder to cope with.
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Just drawing down to a 40-hr week, no nights, no weekends, no TDY, no exercises, no deployments, no people leader/supervisor queep cut out a lot of work.

I coped with the regained free time by filling it with time spent with my wife who’s still a DoD civilian, and hobbies I had to defer while AD, among other things.

I recently listened to a dude talking about LTSD (lack of traumatic stress disorder)…essentially after going for most of my adult life living in the combat aviation/arms space, not getting the endorphin rushes any more causes it’s own problems. That’s not something any .civ job (even as a first responder/LEO) is likely to ever fill in the same manner and that is what I find harder to deal with.
 
TCABM said:
Just drawing down to a 40-hr week, no nights, no weekends, no TDY, no exercises, no deployments, no people leader/supervisor queep cut out a lot of work.

I coped with the regained free time by filling it with time spent with my wife who’s still a DoD civilian, and hobbies I had to defer while AD, among other things.

I recently listened to a dude talking about LTSD (lack of traumatic stress disorder)…essentially after going for most of my adult life living in the combat aviation/arms space, not getting the endorphin rushes any more causes it’s own problems. That’s not something any .civ job (even as a first responder/LEO) is likely to ever fill in the same manner and that is what I find harder to deal with.
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Yep
 
Rich Holt said:
Cool. I have a BA in Music Comp. There are many days that I wished I would have stuck with that.
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The grass is always greener on the other side. Had you stuck with it and made a career out of it, you probably wouldn't be flying right now, thinking "I wish I had the money to get a pilot's license". Had I stuck with it as an artist instead of making a scalable music/tech business out of it, I probably wouldn't be flying now either.
 
Off-topic, but to get a bit of the rush you could always try riding along with bad drivers. I've been with two different people who started left turns into freeway on ramps, completely puzzled by the screams of everyone else in the car "no don't turn here!". I suggest looking for older fellows wearing hats and driving a Buick or Mercury.

My apologies to any older pilots driving Buicks or Mercurys and wearing hats. I'm sure you're just fine...
 
Rich Holt said:
I went through the .mil flying pipeline after getting my Private certificate. The .mil was a completely different beast that focused on more practical flying stuff and less on "minutiae." Just my opinion, YMMV.
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As an NFO going through VT-10/VT-86/VAQ-129 circa 1987-88 I found plenty of minutia but it gave me a solid understanding of the basics and details I don't think I would have ever gotten going the civilian route. It was interesting doing my PPL/Inst 10 years after I retired from the Navy how 2500 hours in mil flying prepared me for GA flying and how much it didn't.

For example, VFR in the mil was time in a MOA or a low level route. Just flying VFR isn't something we did in jets anyway. On the other hand, visually navigating flying a 172 at 120 KTS at 3000' wasn't much of a challenge after doing same at 200' AGL at 480 KTS across Oregon to Fallon or PA to NC.
 
Pugs said:
As an NFO going through VT-10/VT-86/VAQ-129 circa 1987-88 I found plenty of minutia but it gave me a solid understanding of the basics and details I don't think I would have ever gotten going the civilian route. It was interesting doing my PPL/Inst 10 years after I retired from the Navy how 2500 hours in mil flying prepared me for GA flying and how much it didn't.

For example, VFR in the mil was time in a MOA or a low level route. Just flying VFR isn't something we did in jets anyway. On the other hand, visually navigating flying a 172 at 120 KTS at 3000' wasn't much of a challenge after doing same at 200' AGL at 480 KTS across Oregon to Fallon or PA to NC.
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My VT experience seemed very tailored to Naval Aviation. Where the Civvie route seemed much broader. I also don't miss taking the IR test every year. The real question is, do you miss the chum?
 
Rich Holt said:
My VT experience seemed very tailored to Naval Aviation. Where the Civvie route seemed much broader. I also don't miss taking the IR test every year. The real question is, do you miss the chum?
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Nope! Chumming strip charts was a pain. Hack, even figuring out what needed chumming! For the squadron stash of charts there were four of us who would take them all home and make a party out of it.

I don't miss my flying life being dictated by the C3500 matrix or instrument ground school every year or NATOPS checks (we had both a front seat and back seat to do) nor the every four year aviation physiology stuff. PRT, wing inspections, SORTS reports, safety standowns, the list goes on!

On the other hand, in 1988 I was 23, lived on the beach on Perdido Key, had a sports car, flew jets for a living and $9,000 a year covered it all.
 
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Pugs said:
As an NFO going through VT-10/VT-86/VAQ-129 circa 1987-88 I found plenty of minutia but it gave me a solid understanding of the basics and details I don't think I would have ever gotten going the civilian route. It was interesting doing my PPL/Inst 10 years after I retired from the Navy how 2500 hours in mil flying prepared me for GA flying and how much it didn't.

For example, VFR in the mil was time in a MOA or a low level route. Just flying VFR isn't something we did in jets anyway. On the other hand, visually navigating flying a 172 at 120 KTS at 3000' wasn't much of a challenge after doing same at 200' AGL at 480 KTS across Oregon to Fallon or PA to NC.
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I’d say there was far more minutia during my Army days vs part 61/135 flying. Not just minutia but the training was far more comprehensive as well. A year and a half to go through flight school that could be done a fraction of the time at a civ school. A topic like airspace or aerodynamics might take a whole week in the military. It might be a days class on the civ side. State of the art sims, hands on systems training devices, etc.

Can’t speak for 121 but a friend flys 747s for Atlas and he said the UH-60 course was more difficult.
 
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Tools, I just transitioned back to the GA world. At a 121 carrier there are “people” that do a lot of the work, such as w&b, flight planning, fuel requirements, weather, etc. Everyone calls you Captain and asks if you are satisfied with the plan. They’ll even get you coffee iNow I get to do all of that myself and I’m enjoying it. Fly Safely!
 
BTDT, 61 instead of 141. Enjoy it, you'll make some the best memories and friends of your life. Happiest days of my super-active-instruction career was the first student I solo'd and the day I shut the school down :)

Maybe I'll take another swing at it someday, but, not before I retire from my real career. I learned my lesson about balance in life.
 
Pugs said:
On the other hand, in 1988 I was 23, lived on the beach on Perdido Key, had a sports car, flew jets for a living and $9,000 a year covered it all.
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Hah, I lived just before the bridge to Perdido Key when I was there. Had a sportbike, though, and $9,000/yr wouldn't have covered **** :lol:
 
Ya, I was a 121 guy. Turns out you can get all the way from zero to 121 captain and NEVER bend the binder of an AIM/FAR, if you throw in a healthy helping of military competency.

First question on my chief instructor ride... how long is a graduation diploma good for?

Lemme just look that up. Go right to “graduation certificates” 141.something... hmmm.... read. Reread. Re-reread.

I’ll give you a hint, it’s not in 141.

me: “wha”??????

I miss “people”!
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Hah, I lived just before the bridge to Perdido Key when I was there. Had a sportbike, though, and $9,000/yr wouldn't have covered **** :lol:
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I lived within stumbling distance down the beach of the Florabama :D Winning.

Of course, not only is the little 4 unit condo I lived in gone but hurricanes have wiped out the two built in it's place.
 
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