Yellow airplanes with skis! (Dialup warning)

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
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iMooniac
One month to the day after flying a brand new G1000-equipped 182 down to Key West, I went to the opposite extreme: I flew our club 182 to blustery northern Michigan and flew an old Piper J-3 Cub, without any electrical system at all, on skis!

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http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182671-1.html

Rick Durden has been having an annual ski-plane gathering for about 10 years now, and I was lucky enough to be invited this year. Rick also was kind enough to let me invite my CFII along for the trip, which allowed me to get some good instrument work in on the way there and back and also gave my CFII a chance to do some ski-flying. We flew the 182 up to KCAD, where Northwoods Aviation has a Cub and a Super Cub on skis for rent at very reasonable prices ($90/hr for dual). I arrived on Saturday just in time to see the Super Cub take off from a flat snowy area next to the approach end of runway 25. I went inside to meet everybody and found that this is exactly the type of place you'd expect to be called "Northwoods Aviation," a great place for Hangar Talk:

PerfectforHangarTalkin.jpg


Northwoods is a father-son operation. They have several J-3 and PA-18 Cubs, a 170, a 180, and there are lots of other neat airplanes parked in the hangar next door where I kept the 182. Ercoupe, amphibious Maule, Tri-Pacer, Viking, and two of these (I forgot what they are... Had to ask!) For the most part, all of the planes were in amazingly good condition as well, some impressive specimens:

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The Super Cub was being kept busy, and Derek, the son part of the operation who is a CFI and A&P, asked if I'd like to go flying in the Cub. After one-third of a nanosecond, I enthusiastically said yes and we pulled it out of the hangar. The Cub was on "wheel penetration" skis, which retract with a manual hydraulic pump to let the wheels down far enough to land on a runway or to be easily rolled out of the hangar.

The next trick was getting in. You can't step on the gear strut or the wing strut, and at 6'4" these planes are just a bit small for me! Regardless of your height, about the only way to get in is to sit on the bottom of the door frame and grab one of the tubes in the cockpit and slide yourself into the seat.

MeinCub.jpg


After getting in, I took a look around the cockpit to get familiar with it. There's not much to this process! The panel has only an airspeed indicator, non-sensitive altimeter, magnetic compass, tachometer, and oil temp and pressure gauges, and an inclinometer which didn't appear to work very well. There are no switches because there's no electrical system. The only other things on the panel itself are the primer, mixture control, and a cabin heat knob. There was a carb heat control on one wall, the mag switch on the left wing root, and clear tube fuel gauges on both wing roots. The throttle is at the bottom of the left window.

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Another first for me: Hand-propping. Well, I didn't do it, but I'd never actually flown a plane that needed it. Derek was a pro at it though - He pulled the prop through a couple of times, set the throttle, had me turn on the mags and pull the primer out, and with a swift motion of his arm the engine fired right up. He slid into the seat behind me, I pumped the skis down, and I taxied out onto the snow-covered field.

One oddity on skis is that you have no brakes, so your runup must be done in motion. You also use soft-field technique as it's quite difficult to get the plane moving again if it's stopped in snow. So, I did a quick mag check at about 1500 RPM while taxiing downwind, we did a quick takeoff briefing on the roll (on the slide?) and I turned into the wind and added power.

The takeoff is pretty easy - After adding power, push forward to get the tail off the ground, then a couple of seconds later pull back to take off. I never thought a 90hp engine could lift me off the ground, but it worked! The climb rate was rather anemic but it didn't matter - I was flying the venerable J-3 Cub!

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We headed straight out toward a large lake, Lake Mitchell. Low and slow indeed, only 4-500 AGL and then back down a little to check out the lake from the air. We picked a landing spot clear of any slush or other signs of moisture and without any drifts across the path and then flew a pattern around it for a touch-and-go. The first landing on any ice-covered lake is a touch and go in case of thin ice. After takeoff, we flew a pattern again, looking at the tracks on downwind to make sure they didn't darken up from water coming through cracks in the ice. They looked good, so we aimed for the same spot and landed. (Watered? Snowed? haha)

We did a third landing toward the other end of Lake Mitchell and after takeoff saw some snowmobiles racing downwind. We smoked 'em. :D (Yes, we kept our 500 foot separation.) It was kind of a reminder that low and slow still isn't THAT slow. We headed towards Pleasant Lake, just a mile or two north, for a couple more touch and goes. Pleasant Lake is much smaller, and with the slow climb rate of the Cub we had to make the "go" fairly quick and follow low terrain to stay safe. Finally, we headed back to KCAD.

Derek saw my CFII out on the ramp with my camera, so we did a low pass over runway 18-36 before making a left-hand pattern to the landing area. We landed and called it a day. We headed to McGuire's Resort to join everyone else for an excellent dinner buffet (prime rib and crab legs anyone?) and a gathering in Rick's room afterwards. It was great to meet a bunch of pilots and listen to their stories.

Sunday morning, we had an excellent breakfast and headed back over to the airport. Conditions were MVFR with lake effect snow, but when low and slow that's not such a big deal, especially when you're never more than about 5 miles from the field. It also cleared up throughout the day.

Around lunchtime, I still hadn't flown again and others were making plans for lunch. I still wanted to fly the Super Cub, and it seemed like this would be my last chance. Derek said we could go flying and he'd drop me off at the restaurant where everyone else was going when we were done.

We hopped into the Super Cub, which was equipped with wheel replacement skis - They mount right onto the axles where the wheels would be if they were still there. The Super Cub has several things the Cub doesn't: An electrical system (and starter), wing flaps, 150hp engine, sensitive altimeter, slightly wider cabin, and probably a couple of other things I'm forgetting. Unfortunately, the wing flap lever was all the way up next to my leg when I put in full flaps and that seemed to prevent any significant leftward movement of the stick, so I stuck to two notches of flaps for the landings.

Again, we taxied out and took off from the same area. With the extra ponies up front, the Super Cub really jumps off the ground! Normally when I think of a 150-hp airplane, I think "Warrior that hasn't been upgraded" and I certainly don't think about good performance. However, the Super Cub climbed briskly in the cold air. We headed a couple miles south to Lake Cadillac. After a couple of landings there, I had Derek take the controls while I took some pictures.

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We did a couple of landings on Lake Mitchell as well, and I tried to get a photo of our tracks.

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Finally, we landed on Lake Mitchell near the restaurant where the others were. I'd thought Derek was going to drive me there, but I ended up getting the coolest $100 hamburger ever instead!

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Watching the Super Cub take off was amazing - Derek got it moving, taxied it further out onto the lake, and added power. It only took about 50 feet for the plane to lift off! I started heading for the restaurant, but I wish I'd had my camera out instead, as Derek came back for a nice low pass before swooping back up into the air - Would have made a great picture, but I couldn't get my camera turned on fast enough!

As if all the Cub flying wasn't enough, I got 8.4 hours of good IFR time in the 182 on the way there and back. My CFII used all five of his instrument covers and two post-it notes in the process! :hairraise: However, I still managed to hold altitude and course well within parameters. His last trick was to fail Nav1 on me on the ILS 21 back into MSN just shy of the FAF, requiring a very quick re-tune/identify on Nav2 to track the localizer instead. The checkride should be very soon, hopefully in March. :yes:

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Kent, well done! How wonderful for you and your gang. Those pics are fabulicious, almost makes me want to move up there. And that last pic--stunning & breathtaking. That sunset is on par with many I've seen in the South Pacific, the home of beautiful sunsets. What a great time you had and thanks for sharing with us.

Oh yeah, that sure looks like a big prop on 72T.
 
hell of a story Kent. Very nice, and fun looking, too. I gotta try that some day.

Question: Landing rollout (skiout?)....does it take forever without breaks?
 
Kent, what a wonderful Friday morning surprise, thanks for the good story and great pictures!
 
Kent - thank you SO MUCH! Awesome writeup and pictures. You've just motivated me to chase down a contact for a distant cousin who's husband has a 182 amphib in Northern Minnesota to talk flying and possibly find something up there similar to your experience!
 
Richard said:
Kent, well done! How wonderful for you and your gang. Those pics are fabulicious, almost makes me want to move up there. And that last pic--stunning & breathtaking. That sunset is on par with many I've seen in the South Pacific, the home of beautiful sunsets. What a great time you had and thanks for sharing with us.

Oh yeah, that sure looks like a big prop on 72T.

N172T is the Super Cub and that prop's being swung by a 150hp engine so it is noticeably bigger than the 90hp J-3 prop. The Cub that has both the wheels and skis is the J-3.

Funny, I was actually kind of disappointed in the sunset! :rolleyes: It was a nice one, and I like how you can see the tops of the clouds as well as a bit of the ground below, but it never got to the fiery red point that I really like. For instance, here's my favorite flying sunset pic that I took in the fall of 2004:

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SkyHog said:
hell of a story Kent. Very nice, and fun looking, too. I gotta try that some day.

Question: Landing rollout (skiout?)....does it take forever without breaks?

Not really - it's basically a soft field landing, the skis are pushing a fair amount of snow out of the way. For reference, it takes about 1200-1500 RPM just to keep the plane moving when you taxi out.

If you look at an airport diagram of KCAD, we were using a portion of the airport roughly parallel to the runway, just north of the runway and south of the ramp, from the fence over to the first taxiway as our "ski-way" for the takeoffs and landings and we really never got to the point where I was nervous about not being able to take off or land. We were bringing the Cub down final at 60 mph and doing three-point (basically full-stall) landings. Then we'd use the 1200+ RPM to taxi to the snow-covered portion of the ramp and with idle power the plane would stop.

The plane actually stays still for start quite well due to freeze-down. The friction between the skis and the snow during landing heats them up just enough to melt a bit of snow where you stop, which then freezes again in short order. You give the plane a shove before you go back out to break it free, but even then it'll sometimes re-freeze by the time you start up. Derek was pretty skilled at solving this problem, but it involves fairly high power (1500 or maybe even 1700 RPM), lifting the tail in place, and thumping it back down. Yikes!

Now what was interesting without brakes was doing the runup in motion!

I highly encourage anyone who's interested in doing this to head up to KCAD (Cadillac, MI - and I know we have plenty of Michigan folks here!) and give it a try. This may be the only place in the country that rents planes on skis, let's keep 'em open!
 
gkainz said:
Kent - thank you SO MUCH! Awesome writeup and pictures. You've just motivated me to chase down a contact for a distant cousin who's husband has a 182 amphib in Northern Minnesota to talk flying and possibly find something up there similar to your experience!

Greg,

Cool! If you're looking to get a rating as well, there's an outfit at KSTP that has several amphibs, including a Super Cub and a 180 IIRC. KCAD puts their Cubs on floats in the summer and does weekend seaplane ratings for $795; one of the guys in my club did that this past summer. I've got to warn you though, immediately afterwards he bought a Cub on floats!

I've been really fortunate that between my job and being a host on The Pilotcast I've been in the right places at the right times to have crazy adventures like ski flying and the Key West trip.

I highly encourage the rest of you to go and seek out at least one of your dream flying adventures each year - Do something different that you'll learn from and remember for the rest of your life! :yes:
 
Nice documentary!
There's more snow in your PIX than we saw flying in Alaska last year.
 
WOW!

--Kath
 
Looks like fun.

I *love* anything Cub or similar.

..Never been on skis or floats before....yet.
 
Kent: Great write up. I really enjoyed the story. I really love the old wood burning stove in the FBO.
 
Kent,

Too Cool!!

Derrick is a really good guy, isn't he? I did my tailwheel training with him in the Cub and the Seaplane rating with him in the Super Cub. I'm envious of you ski time. I would recommend Northwoods for any of those. If nothing else they put an emphasis on "fly the plane". They aren't real fancy but they are real solid.

Barb
 
Hey Kent - is there a website for all this fun and opportunity that you could post on our Links area? When I finally get my round toit and do something like this, I suspect I won't be able to find this thread again.
Greg
 
Awesome write-up and pictures! The first sunset is now my desktop background!

Thanks,
 
If any of you ever get up to maine,i would be glad to take you out on skis or floats.Just let me know ahead of time.Great skiing in the area as well.
 

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AdamZ said:
Kent: Great write up. I really enjoyed the story. I really love the old wood burning stove in the FBO.

Yeah, it really is the perfect place for hangar talk: Three recliners, a couch, and about six chairs around a table. All in a small room with a big bay window facing the runway and heated by the wood stove.

I must admit my favorite part of the stove, however, is the method of attaching the fan above it to the wall. :D
 
One Short said:
Derrick is a really good guy, isn't he?

Definitely. I think I'm jealous of him though... How cool would it be to have a business like that with your dad?
 
gkainz said:
Hey Kent - is there a website for all this fun and opportunity that you could post on our Links area? When I finally get my round toit and do something like this, I suspect I won't be able to find this thread again.
Greg

Greg,

Unfortunately, Northwoods doesn't seem to have a web site. If I find otherwise I'll post it, otherwise just give me a yell when you get your round tuit and I'll tell you where it was again. :)
 
Nice write up Kent. I am surprised you could fit yourself into a Cub, I guess the incentive was big enough to compensate for the small cabin. Did you try the rear seat? IIRC it's even more cramped. I guess since you were on skis, you didn't get to experience heel braking, which is part of the Cub experience. I guess you'll have to go back in the summer for that, eh?
 
lancefisher said:
Nice write up Kent. I am surprised you could fit yourself into a Cub, I guess the incentive was big enough to compensate for the small cabin. Did you try the rear seat? IIRC it's even more cramped. I guess since you were on skis, you didn't get to experience heel braking, which is part of the Cub experience. I guess you'll have to go back in the summer for that, eh?

Lance,

If I hadn't been wearing my bulky winter coat I would have fit a little better, but it wasn't really the fitting in the plane that was difficult, just getting in and out! Of course, my knees were about 2 inches from the panel, but I honestly fit in the J-3 better than in an airline seat! :yes: I didn't try the rear seat though.

Also, while the PA-18 had straight skis, the J-3 had wheel skis which were retracted when we first started up and I extended them when we got to the snow-covered part of the ramp. So, I did get a bit of heel braking in. Yuck, whose idea was that?!? I guess it does encourage you to use the rudder when it's effective, but...
 
By the way...

You can hear me talking about my ski flying adventure with Rick Durden and my cohorts from the board here (Mike and Dan) on episode #26 of The Pilotcast.

http://www.pilotcast.com/

Best thing to do is use iTunes or a podcast aggregator like iPodder to subscribe so you can hear the show every week. And you do NOT need an iPod to enjoy it! :)

While you're at it, be sure to check episode #21 for more on ski flying with Rick and episodes #18 and #20 for some excellent material from our own Tom Downey and Ken Ibold, respectively. Aw heck, just listen to all of them. You know you want to. :D

*shameless promotion off* :D
 
Kent,

Good work. I've listened to a few of your Podcasts already and haven't heard one that wasn't really interesting, fun and a lernin' experience. Ron and Bruce were excellent of course. Thanks for the ref# for the ones with Ken Ibold and Tom Downey as guests, haven't actually heard those yet. Might be a good idea to provide some kind of a table (Excel or whatever) that gives episode #, topic for discussion and name of guest .... or did I miss that ?

Great photos ! You're an inspiration to us all.

Charles.
 
*bump*

Was just looking up the years on the Cubs to enter into my spiffy new electronic logbook and found this thread. It's getting to be that time of year, too! :( Good times, though. :)
 
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