Yeah, so that was depressing

[spiderweb]

After my "Should I get the CFI?" post and then the most recent one, I have had to remove several wet towels. What next? I enjoy flying for fun and business, but I would like to keep training. I got rained on when I brought up the multi (there were the petrol and proficiency issues). Next, I thought of the CFI--but we've just been through that. How about the G1000 checkout? So much money to learn how to fly a panel. Tailwheel and seaplane sound fun, but they aren't practical, and don't lead to anything for me (aside from lots of fun). Why bother with the comm? There's no benefit financially, and I don't really buy the argument that I should do it for the challenge, alone. I already have the hp and complex, I know how to retract and extend the gear, and my CFI always insisted on comm standards for the VFR stuff. All that leaves is a lot of money spent in the Saratoga doing lazy 8s and chandelles--not nearly as fun as the aerobatics we did in the Zlin.

What's left?

 

[tonycondon]

Ben,
Have Fun! You could add a Glider rating. That is a blast, believe me.

 

[Henning]

After my "Should I get the CFI?" post and then the most recent one, I have had to remove several wet towels. What next? I enjoy flying for fun and business, but I would like to keep training. I got rained on when I brought up the multi (there were the petrol and proficiency issues). Next, I thought of the CFI--but we've just been through that. How about the G1000 checkout? So much money to learn how to fly a panel. Tailwheel and seaplane sound fun, but they aren't practical, and don't lead to anything for me (aside from lots of fun). Why bother with the comm? There's no benefit financially, and I don't really buy the argument that I should do it for the challenge, alone. I already have the hp and complex, I know how to retract and extend the gear, and my CFI always insisted on comm standards for the VFR stuff. All that leaves is a lot of money spent in the Saratoga doing lazy 8s and chandelles--not nearly as fun as the aerobatics we did in the Zlin.

What's left?

Whats left? Tons of things, there's Gliders and rotors, balloons.... Personally, I think the Multi would be good for you, just find a couple people to go in on a Seneca with you.

 

[Richard]

Whats left? Tons of things, there's Gliders and rotors, balloons.... Personally, I think the Multi would be good for you, just find a couple people to go in on a Seneca with you.

I did a short x/c flying mostly lazy 8s 'tween points A and B. Once the bulb clicks on about how exactly the maneuver is made it becomes fun, almost hypnotic, aiming to make the next better than the last But what's the point?

The point is it's where you make it. It could be money or it could be sheer pleasure, it could also be a combo of the two. In the case of the latter, the ratio probably won't be how you intended. Sometimes, talking yourself into it is harder than talking yourself out of it.

 

[Everskyward]

Tailwheel and seaplane sound fun, but they aren't practical, and don't lead to anything for me (aside from lots of fun).

Yeah, but who wants to be practical all the time?

 

[jesse]

Tailwheel and seaplane sound fun, but they aren't practical, and don't lead to anything for me (aside from lots of fun).

Get your tailwheel. *at* least give it a shot.

Tailwheel will make you a better pilot. You'll learn a lot in the first lesson. beleive me.

Next time you get a huge crosswind and you are in a nosewheel, You will amaze yourself with your new skills.

I can't really say much about seaplane. I've never been on anything with floats.

My next question is:

Why did you start to fly in the first place?

If it was to have fun.. Have fun! Get your tailwheel.. Do your seaplane.. do some aerobatics and enjoy yourself!

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I did a short x/c flying mostly lazy 8s 'tween points A and B. Once the bulb clicks on about how exactly the maneuver is made it becomes fun, almost hypnotic, aiming to make the next better than the last But what's the point?

The point is it's where you make it. It could be money or it could be sheer pleasure, it could also be a combo of the two. In the case of the latter, the ratio probably won't be how you intended. Sometimes, talking yourself into it is harder than talking yourself out of it.

Someday I'd like to see a Lazy 8 from the ground, the way it was designed to be viewed.

 

[Richard]

Someday I'd like to see a Lazy 8 from the ground, the way it was designed to be viewed.

I don't know about from the ground but it is from outside the a/c.

What vantage point on the ground would allow you to see the maneuver for what it is? Directly underneath? But another a/c remaining S&L following in trail would offer the best viewing I think.

 

[kath]

Ben, I find it interesting that you say the tailwheel or seaplane is "not practical". I'm curious what you mean by this... after all NONE of this stuff is practical! Is it? We do it cuz it's fun and we love it. Gliders, for instance, I bet would be great training. And fun. And not practical. Same with aerobatics.

If there's no rating or certificate that you're excited about, there are other ways to set goals and advance your skills. You could for instance, set out to land at all the public airports in Maryland (or some such thing). Educational. Fun. "Practical"? I don't know. Well, it would give you experience that you'd find practically useful in your future... so from that perspective maybe.

Another good one would be to fly coast-to-coast. Wow! Adventure. Skill-building up the wazoo. Mountains!

You and I are both "goal-oriented" type people, but remember that ratings aren't the only things worth striving for in this endeavor. One summer, I made it a goal to keep taking xc flights which were longer than the last. I ended up in Minnesota...

--Kath

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Helicopters, of course, Ben! They're a whole lot more fun to fly

 

[Carol]

Tailwheel *is* practical. You will learn what rudders are. Yes, you already know but you will *really* know when you fly conventional gear.

 

[EdFred]

Ben, just do something. Like Kath said. Almost none of what we do is practical or logical. I will probably never own a sea plane, but I am going to get the rating. We also have a glider school 1/2 hour from me. I'm going to get that rating as well. I'm going to see how long I can go without a BFR

Commercial in 06, ASES in 08, Glider in 10...

 

[Bill]

What's left?

I'm sad you have to ask this, and I guess only you can determine where to go from here. I really enjoy the training as well, and will likely continue. I'll fly on my new IR for 30-40hrs, then start commercial. Mostly, just because it is there, and it leads to better aircraft control. Multi? Nope, unless some unknown rich relative drops a pile of ca$h on me. ATP or CFI? No, have no want to turn this into a "job". Seaplane and glider? Hell yeah, I'll pick one in a year and a half instead of a BFR.

My biggest immediate want is finding an aircraft I can rent where they'll let me fly into grass fields. So many interesting places to visit, but no way tog et in there...frustrating.

Have you thought about building? I must be sick in the head, but I'm really REALLY close to deciding on an RV-8.

 

[jesse]

My biggest immediate want is finding an aircraft I can rent where they'll let me fly into grass fields. So many interesting places to visit, but no way tog et in there...frustrating.

I really do not understand some FBO's view on the no grass landings. It makes me wonder if they have ever landed on grass.

A decent grass field is very forgiving and fun to land on. It's not hard on the airplane.

I guess maybe they are worried about someone landing on some poorly maintained grass field with pot holes?

...Find a grass field that does tailwheel training. Then you are set. I doubt you'll find an FBO that rents tailwheels that says no grass.. They'd probably prefer grass

 

[Len Lanetti]

What next? I enjoy flying for fun and business, but I would like to keep training. ...snip... What's left?

Ben,

What's left after a guitarist has mastered three cords? Sure, it's good enough for rock & roll and the person can be considered a musician but there is so much more.

For me the commercial license was more than just flying a retractable gear aircraft with a third handle on the power quadrant and a few maneuvers. It really changed the entire way I look at flying and aviation.

The seaplane rating started out as a bit of fun and a slightly more expensive way to get a biennial flight review...it turned out that in addition to being a lot of fun and getting my biennial out of the way for another two years it was the best thing I ever did to improve my landings.

The multiengine rating was a financial hardship when I did it and in retrospect, I maybe should have done some other things with the time and money (like CFI, I've left the writtens expire twice now). Well, anyway, at this point in my life I may never fly a twin again but I know that I have and with some dual I could again.

If I were able to pursue other licenses, ratings or endorsements at the moment I'd seriously look into obtaining commercial helicopter and glider licenses, maybe a MES and taildragger...I would certainly have to do that and then maybe get a few hours in a Beach-18 or a type rating in a DC3, that would be neat...Acro doesn't really float my boat but perhaps a few hours to make me a safer pilot, I'm afraid of heights and maybe I could overcome that with some time in a hot air balloon and then there is...well you get my drift. :<)

Len

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I don't know about from the ground but it is from outside the a/c.

What vantage point on the ground would allow you to see the maneuver for what it is? Directly underneath? But another a/c remaining S&L following in trail would offer the best viewing I think.

I was told by my old X-Navy CFII that to view the Lazy 8 the way it was intended (and the only reason the maneuver was invented in the first place) the critiqueing officer is on the ground looking at the aircraft approaching from the distance, inscribing the 8 laying on its side over and over, with the loops of the 8 to the left and right of the viewer, thereby tracing a "recumbant 8" from that viewing angle.

 

[Richard]

I was told by my old X-Navy CFII that to view the Lazy 8 the way it was intended (and the only reason the maneuver was invented in the first place) the critiqueing officer is on the ground looking at the aircraft approaching from the distance, inscribing the 8 laying on its side over and over, with the loops of the 8 to the left and right of the viewer, thereby tracing a "recumbant 8" from that viewing angle.

That makes sense. Get a buddy to fly a series of 8s down a country road. You're on the gnd with a camcorder. Report back.

 

[spiderweb]

Yes--and to add to the depression, I get my traditional one star. I was waiting for that.

I don't want to give the wrong impression. I love flying; probably now even more than when I began. I really want to do more training, though, and it has to be practical or I won't be able to justify the expense. IOW, although getting the IR was lots of fun, it was also necessary if I wanted to really use my certificate for business.

Maybe I should just build hours in the Saratoga, and eventually get the comm.

 

[John J]

Ben;

Gosh; I get excited just going to the airport to fly. I have been so lucky to have been learning since I was "an airport kid" so long ago. Never had much money but got to enjoy flying many kinds of planes and got to see a lot of the country by flying ferry flights and charters. Even got to fly in G.B. I kept notes on a lot of my flights. The excitement is in the wonderful experience of learning something new on each flight and refining the skills. One of my favorite flights was flying out to Kansas from Maryland 40 years ago with just charts, a good clock, and a good compass.

Now since I can't flying without a another pilot I work on my right side flying skills. I flew as a copilot many years ago. I find it fun to fly on the right and for some strange reason I make better landings over there.

Ratings are fun to earn but then once that passes it is up to us to keep sharp and that is just by working on our skills and keeping practicing. The only rating I would like today is the glider rating for it is the closest flying to our feathered flying friends.

Ben, have fun exploring all areas ratings, experience etc. Keep us posted

John

 

[spiderweb]

Ben;

Gosh; I get excited just going to the airport to fly. I have been so lucky to have been learning since I was "an airport kid" so long ago. Never had much money but got to enjoy flying many kinds of planes and got to see a lot of the country by flying ferry flights and charters. Even got to fly in G.B. I kept notes on a lot of my flights. The excitement is in the wonderful experience of learning something new on each flight and refining the skills. One of my favorite flights was flying out to Kansas from Maryland 40 years ago with just charts, a good clock, and a good compass.

Now since I can't flying without a another pilot I work on my right side flying skills. I flew as a copilot many years ago. I find it fun to fly on the right and for some strange reason I make better landings over there.

Ratings are fun to earn but then once that passes it is up to us to keep sharp and that is just by working on our skills and keeping practicing. The only rating I would like today is the glider rating for it is the closest flying to our feathered flying friends.

Ben, have fun exploring all areas ratings, experience etc. Keep us posted

John

I think this is what I needed to hear. Thanks, John!

 

[AdamZ]

Ben: Not to be a smart ass but along the lines of what Kath and John posted, why don't you just go out and fly.Build hours, Do Angel flights, Do young eagles. Climb to 6000' and take in a veiw that most on terra firma will never have the blessnig to view. Why does there always have to be a reason to fly. I go to KLNS a lot for lunch with friends I could say its a reason to fly I look at it like flying is a reason to go to lancaster not the other way around. Go on trips call me up and say hey I'm flying to Wings let go to lunch, Fly to anywhere else and ask any member of this board the same thing. For most Flying is not practical but neither is sailing, Golf or Rock climbing for that matter. Most of us fly becasue it is and escape from the practical.
If you want practical get a new cello case or Tux for a preformance. If you want to escape practical do what you love, Fly, Sail, Ski, Climb what ever. Ben you torture youself too much!

 

[etsisk]

I think this is what I needed to hear. Thanks, John!

Ben, GLIDERS are just exceptionally cool things to fly, without question!! Plus they have whole structures of skills testing and competitions and all sorts of stuff already in place, waiting for you!

The whole glider thing is more socially structured - it pretty much has to be, given that you often need help taking off (wingrunners, etc) and landing (well, off-field landings! Hey, ya got to have SOMEONE come get you with a trailer!). Glider pilots do it in groups!

Plus, where ELSE can you do something called "gaggling"??

 

[tonycondon]

i agree, glider pilots do it quietly! Ben, you would probably enjoy badge flying for long duration/distance flights, as well as regional, national, and world championships! its great fun. check out www.ssa.org for info. check out the photo section for some pics of my off field landing. the funnest flight ive had!

 

[kath]

Plus, where ELSE can you do something called "gaggling"??

Okay, I'm curious... what is that?

Now I wanna go gliding!
--Kath

 

[tonycondon]

when you share a thermal with several other gliders. I have been a gaggle of three, we were stacked vertically, about 100 feet between each. i have also gaggled be staying on opposite sides of the thermal. it is great fun and makes you really focus on flying! much, much larger gaggles than three are common at large soaring sites. google it, i found some awesome pics.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Ben,

Feel free to just go out and, OMG, fly for fun! It doesn't have to be a constant quest for ratings. Relax. Enjoy it. Take advantage that now anything within 250 miles is now an aftenoon jaunt for you. Go places you haven't gone, see things you haven't seen.

However, that -doesn't- mean you will stop learning. I'll wager you will learn something new (perhaps several somethings) on every flight you take.

After my "Should I get the CFI?" post and then the most recent one, I have had to remove several wet towels. What next? I enjoy flying for fun and business, but I would like to keep training. I got rained on when I brought up the multi (there were the petrol and proficiency issues). Next, I thought of the CFI--but we've just been through that. How about the G1000 checkout? So much money to learn how to fly a panel. Tailwheel and seaplane sound fun, but they aren't practical, and don't lead to anything for me (aside from lots of fun). Why bother with the comm? There's no benefit financially, and I don't really buy the argument that I should do it for the challenge, alone. I already have the hp and complex, I know how to retract and extend the gear, and my CFI always insisted on comm standards for the VFR stuff. All that leaves is a lot of money spent in the Saratoga doing lazy 8s and chandelles--not nearly as fun as the aerobatics we did in the Zlin.

What's left?

 

[Aztec Driver]

Whats left? Tons of things, there's Gliders and rotors, balloons.... Personally, I think the Multi would be good for you, just find a couple people to go in on a Seneca with you.

Yea, like me! I have one I have been trying to buy, but can't find enough interested parties.

Ben, I agree with most here, go fly for the fun of it. As for the practical side, I am having a hard time justifying the multi comm ticket. I decided I am doing it to be better at it and to have the possibility of copiloting on some charters on a part time basis. I have no plans, nor do I have the skills, to become a full time charter pilot. Not to mention the fact that I like to eat occasionally.

 

[Rudy]

Ben,
Like many of the others have said, I just go flying to go. I try to find people who would like to go with me, even if I don't know them very well. It is amazing how easy it is to talk to someone when you are describing things about something you love.
My usual excuse is that I am going to take pictures. I have tons and tons of pictures of things like my friends houses and land that I have fished at. It actually doesn't serve much of a purpose, but I love doing it, and it gives me my flying fix at the same time.

Good Luck,

 

[grattonja]

I second all the replies about tailwheel. I FINALLY learned how to land a plane getting my sign off in the Champ. Now, my landings in tricycle gear craft are much more consistent (and smoother too).

I am going to start (slowly) on Com and CFI after my wife gets IR. Someday, we would both like to be quasi-retired and instructing, at least part time. That would keep us up to date on changes in craft and technology, and give us time with enthusiastic young students. I think all of that would be great. Plus, I would love to be able to do the occasional charter (don't know if that is realistic or not).

In the meantime, I am going to do Angel flights, as soon as I get renter's insurance.

There is plenty to do and learn out there. But I know how you feel, ending training always leaves me with the feeling of "what's next".

Jim G

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I really want to do more training, though, and it has to be practical or I won't be able to justify the expense.

Ben,

Training, or learning? You can learn a lot without anyone else in the plane. I find that the best learning happens on long cross countries. I mean, LONG cross countries. 400nm or more. You seem to make trips to TX fairly often, make the next one by GA and I guarantee you'll learn a ton. You're out of your home environment, you get to see some different terrain, work with different controllers, see lots of new places... My first such trip was MSN to LEX; I learned a lot just with another PP along. Then, I went to Gaston's and continued to EFD in Houston, >900nm from home. I got to encounter new weather, spend some quality cruise time learning the Garmin 430, go higher (12,500) than ever before, go to some places (SIK, 3M0, etc) that I'd wanted to go, and had a great time. (Plus, of course, seeing all of the POA folks at Gaston's! )

I've noticed kind of a lull in my own enthusiasm for flying. It's not as amazing as it used to be once you get a few hours. My latest trip to LEX was "practical" in that it saved me time, but it wasn't quite as cool as the first time. The IR is about the most practical rating you can get, because it allows trips like that when the wx isn't quite so good.

What I do to keep the fire burning inside is to take lots of people who have never been in a small airplane, or never even been off the ground, for their first flight. That half-hour city tour is huge for some people. I took a trainee of mine who grew up in rural Ohio, never traveled much, and didn't have much money for his first flight several months ago. He was pretty nervous, but after we landed he called every single person he knew and told them he was on an airplane. Each of his four kids, too... "Guess what? Daddy rode on an airplane!" The awe and enthusiasm they have is contagious.

Go on a trip. Fly some Young Eagles. Join Angel Flight. THEN do your commercial, or your high-altitude endorsement, or tailwheel, or seaplane, or whatever tickles you at that moment.

 

[spiderweb]

Thanks guys! Just to make it clear: I have not lost a bit of enthusiasm for flying. The problem now is that it is harder to justify spending the money for flights when they aren't for a purpose. That purpose can be anything from flying for business to flying family somewhere. The problem comes when there isn't any "reason" in a couple of weeks. I get antsy, and just want to take a plane out. That is harder to justify. I do have an understanding with myself (and with my wife) that at a minimum, I have to fly or do a sim every two weeks, just to keep the rust off. That means I get at least one training flight or sim, and one flight of some kind each month. Also, thanks Kent for reminding me about flying TO Texas--I have done it once, but I should do it again!

 

[mgkdrgn]

Maybe you have to loosen up your definition of "purpose"? For me "I want to go flying today" was purpose enought. The only issue then was to figure out to where.

Over to Ocean City NJ for a blueberry pancake breakfast? Up to Penn State for a walk through the town/campus and a "Peachy Paterno" at the university creamery? Down to the James river to fly among the ships of the "dead fleet" (pssst, they are gone now, don't do that one!). Down to Richmond to visit friends ... or sometimes just up to DMW for lunch a Bullocks (which I hear is gone now too! )

Any chance to try those Peltors yet?

The problem now is that it is harder to justify spending the money for flights when they aren't for a purpose.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Thanks guys! Just to make it clear: I have not lost a bit of enthusiasm for flying. The problem now is that it is harder to justify spending the money for flights when they aren't for a purpose. That purpose can be anything from flying for business to flying family somewhere. The problem comes when there isn't any "reason" in a couple of weeks. I get antsy, and just want to take a plane out. That is harder to justify. I do have an understanding with myself (and with my wife) that at a minimum, I have to fly or do a sim every two weeks, just to keep the rust off. That means I get at least one training flight or sim, and one flight of some kind each month. Also, thanks Kent for reminding me about flying TO Texas--I have done it once, but I should do it again!

Ben, the purpose can be simply to have a little fun.

I love to fly strictly on pilotage -- and I mean the old fashioned kind using road maps to plan the flight. Example -- I had never flown into Pottstown - Limerick (KPTW), even though it's not very far. So I decided to fly north until I found PA 113, then follow it to the river, hang a left a mile or so north of the river and look for the airport. Which I found and landed there. Then lift off again, go past the Limerick cooling towers and look for PA 100 where it crosses the river. I found that, followed 100 south back to the airport. I played this game with no references to the instruments at all, except the altimeter occasionally (and occasionally the engine instruments). It was a hoot, and it did wonders for my situational awareness in that area.

It's even more fun in an a/c which doesn't have any gyro instruments or nav radios

 

[judypilot]

Or, if having fun isn't enough purpose, call it a maintenance flight (although I can't remember if you have your own airplane). I call my weekly (if at all possible) flights "maintenance flights" because the Cessna Pilots Association recommends flying at least 45 minutes/week to keep the engine in shape. If you don't have your own airplane, you can call it a maintenance flight, as in maintaining your skills-----and sanity. Many of my flights, especially in the winter, are maintenance flights of my engine, skills, and/or sanity, sometimes all three. That's enough purpose for me.

Judy

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Thanks guys! Just to make it clear: I have not lost a bit of enthusiasm for flying. The problem now is that it is harder to justify spending the money for flights when they aren't for a purpose. That purpose can be anything from flying for business to flying family somewhere. The problem comes when there isn't any "reason" in a couple of weeks. I get antsy, and just want to take a plane out. That is harder to justify. I do have an understanding with myself (and with my wife) that at a minimum, I have to fly or do a sim every two weeks, just to keep the rust off. That means I get at least one training flight or sim, and one flight of some kind each month. Also, thanks Kent for reminding me about flying TO Texas--I have done it once, but I should do it again!

Just re-upped my CFII for another 2 years, purpose:
CFII for another 2 years.
The task is the purpose.

 

[spiderweb]

Thanks, Brett.

Last week was a sim, but I'm flying next week. I WILL try them!

Thanks!

Any chance to try those Peltors yet?

Just re-upped my CFII for another 2 years, purpose:
CFII for another 2 years.
The task is the purpose.

Good point.

It's even more fun in an a/c which doesn't have any gyro instruments or nav radios

I like this, but I want to exercise my right to file IFR for a few hundred hours! (And still use the sectionals and compass, too!)

Or, if having fun isn't enough purpose, call it a maintenance flight . . . .

Judy

Oh yeah, that's the term I use!