XP. Hate it.

Chip Sylverne

Final Approach
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Jun 17, 2006
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Quit with the negative waves, man.
Two things are driving me nuts. First, XP resets system time from EDT to EST seemingly at random. I have to go in and reset it at least once a week. The second thing is that I added an external drive, and used XP's "plug and play" driver. Well, this thing seems to go away at random too. I'm always having to go back and reload the driver.

Why is this happening? How can I tell it to kindly please stop?
 
whistling.gif
 
Never had the issue. PEBCAK error?
 
Clearly the answer is Linux.

Honestly, sorry you're not getting much help here. There's currently a big ol' debate between Macs and PCs. You'll probably get more help elsewhere, unfortunately, or just waiting until about page three when the smug "Macs are better" posts die down and people volunteer to help.

Unfortunately, I don't know what could be causing this for you, or I'd help!
 
Laptop or desktop? Hardware manufacturer? Connected to UPS, surge protector or just to the outlet?

As for the external HD, do you have a specific HD-maker supplied driver for it? I have found that XP's supposed plug & play drivers are suspect for some peripherals, notably printers and cameras. I don't have an external HD, but I suspect it may be the same.
 
Laptop or desktop? Hardware manufacturer? Connected to UPS, surge protector or just to the outlet?

As for the external HD, do you have a specific HD-maker supplied driver for it? I have found that XP's supposed plug & play drivers are suspect for some peripherals, notably printers and cameras. I don't have an external HD, but I suspect it may be the same.

PC is a Dell Dimension 3000 desktop, Pentium 4, 512mb ram, XP home service pack 2, about 2 yrs old. Power is through a surge protector.

External drive is a USB 160mb Seagate. No disk was included in the box, but I downloaded a Seagate driver from the mfrs website. Same problem no matter which driver I use, which is why I suspect it must have something to do with XP and maybe a config.sys or system restore problem.
 
Two things are driving me nuts. First, XP resets system time from EDT to EST seemingly at random.

When is the last time this happened? Congress changed the dates for daylight savings time. If you don't have all the Windows Updates this problem would have taunted you from March 11th to April 2nd. If the problem has happened after April 2nd I suspect that your local area is not following the time zone you are selecting. Look carefully at the EST options.

The last option is to disable the Time sync with Microsoft. Go to the Adjust / Date Time menu and select 'Internet Time' at the top. Disable the sync with the time server.

Improperly configured time zones will haunt you on any operating system.

Chip Sylverne said:
The second thing is that I added an external drive, and used XP's "plug and play" driver. Well, this thing seems to go away at random too.
Could be a fault in the external drive itself. Try it on another computer before you assume it's the OS.
 
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What about routine maintenance? Are you properly caring for and feeding the machine?

I find a lot of these oddball issues are resolved by a good tune-up. The ones we do usually consist of:

-- getting rid of the tons of useless crap that Windows generates.
-- removing spyware.
-- removing old BHO's, applets, etc.
-- cleaning the registry (be very careful).
-- running a CHKDSK /f (sometimes twice).
-- defragmenting the MFT (possibly best left to a pro).
-- deleting and rebuilding the pagefile.
-- installing the latest Windows Updates.
-- once everything checks okay, dumping and rebuilding System Restore.

Many, many times I can't discern a clear connection between the problems the machine had, and what exactly solved them. But as a general rule, I've found that a good tune-up can cure a multitude of quirky problems like this.

All the best,

Rich
 
-- getting rid of the tons of useless crap that Windows generates.
???? How can you tell what's good and what's bad and where it is?

-- removing spyware.
I use Spybot.
-- removing old BHO's, applets, etc.
???
-- cleaning the registry (be very careful).
I've heard of this, but I have no idea what or where it is.
-- running a CHKDSK /f (sometimes twice).
???
-- defragmenting the MFT (possibly best left to a pro).
-- deleting and rebuilding the pagefile.
???


OK, so I've just publicly displayed my ignorance of PC's. I've been using a Mac at work (graphic and image editing using Photoshop) for years and have found them to be generally trouble free. I have a PC at home and have lot's of trouble with it, as well as the one prior to my current one.

Here is what I've had trouble with...

Sound quite working recently.
Periodic slow, jerky appearance.
Spyware. (I use Sbybot to clean, but the same garbage comes right back)


Is there a resource availible that can show me how to clean the registry, whatever that is, and troubleshot some of the other problems?
 
Spybot by itself isn't enough.

When is the last time you went to http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com ?

What is your virus software?

DO NOT tamper with anything you don't understand - ie registry, etc.

DO go to 'Add Remove Programs' (under the control panel) and look for anything you think might be removable. List it here and we'll let you know if you should ditch it or not.

The Windows update link tho - thats crucial... do that now. If its been a while, you'll have a ton of updates to install.
 
You might want to try

http://www.ccleaner.com/

Run it at least once a month, once a week until you can identify why your machine is slowing down.

Also, run Task Manager (right click on the status bar at the bottom of the screen) and see what applications are running besides the one(s) you're aware of. Might need to change your startup menu to stop some of them from loading.

The quick and dirty fix for your sound problem would be to remove the sound card driver and reload it. Go to Device Manager and remove the sound card entry. Windows will reload it automatically when you reboot.

Just my 2¢


???? How can you tell what's good and what's bad and where it is?


I use Spybot.

???

I've heard of this, but I have no idea what or where it is.

???

???


OK, so I've just publicly displayed my ignorance of PC's. I've been using a Mac at work (graphic and image editing using Photoshop) for years and have found them to be generally trouble free. I have a PC at home and have lot's of trouble with it, as well as the one prior to my current one.

Here is what I've had trouble with...

Sound quite working recently.
Periodic slow, jerky appearance.
Spyware. (I use Sbybot to clean, but the same garbage comes right back)


Is there a resource availible that can show me how to clean the registry, whatever that is, and troubleshot some of the other problems?
 
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You might want to try

http://www.ccleaner.com/

Run it at least once a month, once a week until you can identify why your machine is slowing down.

Also, run Task Manager (right click on the status bar at the bottom of the screen) and see what applications are running besides the one(s) you're aware of. Might need to change your startup menu to stop some of them from loading.

The quick and dirty fix for your sound problem would be to remove the sound card driver and reload it. Go to Device Manager and remove the sound card entry. Windows will reload it automatically when you reboot.

Just my 2¢

Thanks a bunch Steve! I'll do that when I gety home. :):)
 
I second the motion regarding CCleaner. It's one of the best general cleanup utilities around for Windows.

CCleaner also includes a registry cleaner (the "issues" button), but I have to warn you that although CCleaner is arguably the best consumer-grade registry cleaner around, there's always the chance that serious damage will occur when messing about in the registry.

Frankly, I've rarely encountered CCleaner making serious errors in the registry cleaning. Occasional minor errors related to oddball programs it didn't recognize, yes. But I don't recall any CCleaner errors being serious enough to make a computer unbootable. So if you want to use it, go ahead; but I suggest refreshing System Restore first and making a backup when prompted in CCleaner. I also like to reboot every time I make major changes to the registry.

Another thing: Don't expect to find zero registry errors. That's a very rare thing indeed. A poorly-maintained PC may have several hundred (or more) registry errors, but even a well-maintained machine that's just been tuned up is likely to acquire a dozen or two very rapidly. So don't get obsessive about it.

As for spyware...

Spybot is okay, but it only does about a tenth of what a good tech will do during a tuneup. Spyware removal is an art and a science. There are many, many ways that spyware reinstalls itself, and a good tech is a detective who tries to root all of these out. It's as much art as science: We spend a lot of time looking at things that just don't look like they belong somewhere, because most spyware apps generate random file names and file sizes, thus requiring a lot of intuition and experience on the part of a tech.

Simpler spyware programs most often stash "guard" files somewhere (usually, but not always, in a temp folder; so deleting the contents of all temp folders in all profiles before running SpyBot is a good idea). These guard files are called on every boot and/or user login. If the main spyware components have been removed, they will be reinstalled on reboot or login when the guard files are called. Sometimes, these files are called by other user actions, or sometimes even as scheduled tasks or system services.

Using something like HijackThis can help identify what's going on in these cases, but it still takes someone skilled in spyware removal to analyze the results and make the corrections.

Recently, more sophisticated spyware apps are using rootkit technology, which often makes it difficult or impossible to economically identify and remove the malware. Rootkits run at a very low level (essentially becoming part of the operating system, in layman's terms) and are able to conceal themselves from most scanners (and humans). Sometimes, the time required to find and remove them makes it more economical to backup the data and do a reformat.

A few other things...

One often-overlooked optimization that can dramatically improve performance is to defragment the MFT (Master File Table). Unfortunately, Microsoft provides no easy means by which an average user can do this. I personally use Paragon, which is a bootable tool containing a number of hard disk utilities that will run in DOS or Linux. But how many average users have access to tools like this? Yet the performance improvement can be dramatic. So use Disk Defragmenter to analyze the drive, and then read the report. If there is significant MFT fragmentation, then it's worth the effort to hire someone to defrag it.

I also mentioned rebuilding the pagefile. Personally, I like setting a static size on the pagefile rather than a dynamic one. (Others, I know, disagree. I've wasted countless hours debating this.) But I usually set the minimum and maximum size to 1.5 times the amount of physical memory, but never less than 1024 MB. But it's best to do this after the drive has been defragmented so the new pagefile is contiguous.

The problems with all of this kind of work are, firstly, that there aren't too many techs who know how to do a really good cleaning/tune-up; and secondly, that it's time-consuming work that people are reluctant to pay for. The argument usually goes, "I can buy a new computer for less than that." Aside from being an exaggeration, the reality is that computers, like airplanes, need maintenance; and not all of it can be done by an average user.

The second reason is the cause of the first reason, incidentally. Because so few clients are willing to pay a skilled tech to thoroughly clean and tune-up a machine, all too many times, a reformat is opted for instead. And this sort of work requires that it be done frequently to keep one's skills sharp, because the malware landscape changes every day.

So in the end, my advice is to ask around and find a good computer tech, and pay for a few hours of his or her time. By "good," I don't mean someone who does things just like I do. Even my own employees have their own style, with my blessings. There are many ways to do a good job on a tune-up.

But find someone who is methodical, who does this work frequently, and who spends the first 15 to 30 minutes just talking to you about your user habits while poking around your machine. That's likely to be the guy/gal who really knows how to do a tune-up.

Regards,

Rich
 
I run AdAware SE plus at least once a week. Seems to do a good job.
Also use windows tools to defrag and such.
I use the same technique as you do for the pagefile size.
I'll look into ccleaner.

Thanks
 
P.S. Wanna see some iPhone comedy? Try this.

Now that right there is funny! iPhone Shuffle... :rofl:

You'll probably get more help elsewhere, unfortunately, or just waiting until about page three when the smug "Macs are better" posts die down and people volunteer to help.

Uh, there haven't been any "Macs are better" posts. I wish I could help, just don't know how. :no:
 
check your cmos battery

CMOS does not store timezone information. That's handled by the operating system. What he is saying is very obvious. He's in the eastern time zone and it's dayling savings time. The computer kept switching it from EDT to EST.

The reason? He didn't apply the update that tells the computer "Hey, Computer, Congress changed daylight savings time!"

I suspect this problem doesn't happen for him anymore. If it still does he just needs to turn off Internet Time sync.

The USB..could be a billion issues..I'd start with the simple thing--is it the drive itself?

Good luck, right now, I'm sitting behind a rack of at least one hundred servers being blasted in the face by very hot air, so loud I wish I had my headset. Computers are fun.
 
CMOS does not store timezone information. That's handled by the operating system. What he is saying is very obvious. He's in the eastern time zone and it's dayling savings time. The computer kept switching it from EDT to EST.

The reason? He didn't apply the update that tells the computer "Hey, Computer, Congress changed daylight savings time!"

I suspect this problem doesn't happen for him anymore. If it still does he just needs to turn off Internet Time sync.

The USB..could be a billion issues..I'd start with the simple thing--is it the drive itself?

Good luck, right now, I'm sitting behind a rack of at least one hundred servers being blasted in the face by very hot air, so loud I wish I had my headset. Computers are fun.

Depending on what program he's dealing with, it could be more than that. VBulletin is a superb example.

My VB setting is Central time. When I access the board from a computer set to the Eastern time zone, all the times on the webpage show up 2 hours early (as if I were in Mountain time). When I access the board with a computer set to Central time, all is well. Apparently with VB, if TZ<>OSTZ, then time<>real time.
 
Depending on what program he's dealing with, it could be more than that. VBulletin is a superb example.

My VB setting is Central time. When I access the board from a computer set to the Eastern time zone, all the times on the webpage show up 2 hours early (as if I were in Mountain time). When I access the board with a computer set to Central time, all is well. Apparently with VB, if TZ<>OSTZ, then time<>real time.

That doesn't make sense. The computer's cmos clock is set to UTC in most (if not all) cases. The operating system converts the time from UTC to local timezone based on the settings applied.
 
That doesn't make sense. The computer's cmos clock is set to UTC in most (if not all) cases. The operating system converts the time from UTC to local timezone based on the settings applied.

Right now, my computer is set for EDT, and is showing 4:22 PM.

My post here is showing 2:23 PM.

My laptop is set for CDT, and shows correctly.

The OS or VB Script is double-applying a correction.
 
Right now, my computer is set for EDT, and is showing 4:22 PM.

My post here is showing 2:23 PM.

My laptop is set for CDT, and shows correctly.

The OS or VB Script is double-applying a correction.
You are set on POA for CDT.

vB doesn't read YOUR time, it reads POA time and adjusts.
 
You are set on POA for CDT.

vB doesn't read YOUR time, it reads POA time and adjusts.

But it does access the local clock (or more specifically the local time zone setting), too, or there wouldn't be a double adjustment on the machine set to EDT.....

The machine set to CDT is correct.

I can live with it for now.
 
No, I really don't think it does. It could probably get the system time from the local host, but why? In a system like this, you want all times to be based off a central point - thats the web server.

I'm in EDT, and the board is set to have me in EDT, with DST auto detect.

Your post just above is from yesterday, 4:38 PM.

Now I will change my time settings locally but not on vbulletni.
 
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Now my machine is PST, NO DST auto detect. vBulletin is still EST, DST auto detect.

Your post, after a forced cache reload, is still from 4:38 PM.

Your vBulletin settings are off, Bill...thats all.
 
The USB..could be a billion issues..I'd start with the simple thing--is it the drive itself?

I wish I had another PC to try with the HD.
I loaded and reloaded the drivers again. Using the Manage disk tool, all partitions and FAT on the HD show healthy.

It seems like after a shutdown, the config.sys file changes itself to exclude the HD, and the driver has to be reloaded.

I dunno. I liked Windows better when changes had to be made manually.
 
Now my machine is PST, NO DST auto detect. vBulletin is still EST, DST auto detect.

Your post, after a forced cache reload, is still from 4:38 PM.

Your vBulletin settings are off, Bill...thats all.

If my vBulletin settings were off, then the laptop (and the home computer for that matter) would be wrong. They are correct.

The only one that's off is the Dell in the office. I'll have to play with it a bit when I get time.
 
The C:\CONFIG.SYS file is a legacy file that isn't used by Windows XP. It's usually a blank file, if it exists at all, in an XP system.

Have you tried running CHKDSK /f on the external drive?

Have you tried a different cable?
 
Did you go to windows update?

Yeah, there's nothing I could find there that speaks specifically to this problem, though I haven't searched the whole knowledge base. There's a bunch of firewire problems, and looks like Vista can be a real nightmare. Apparently theres a limit to the number of drives you can add (I've got the internal C:, a dvd rw and a cdrom in addition to the external HD) but I should be no where near the limit. No virtual or network drives.

Spent a couple of hours on it today. The HD installs fine, is recognized as a disk drive and usb storage device and will read and write files. Until I shut down and reboot, and then I lose the drive Seagate drive (F:) in disk drives in the hardware manager, but the serial device controller for the usb storage device remains.

I have the latest driver available.
Frustrating.
 
Okay, a smiley hijacked part of your post... The drive itself disappears from Disk Drives in the Device Manager, is what I think you typed.

If you wanted to and felt comfortable with it, you could remove the hard drive from inside the enclosure and install it on the EIDE cable (assuming it's an EIDE drive and you have a spare position for it), and see if is properly detected. It's possible that the problem is in the drive itself, or in the USB/EIDE interface, or somewhere else along the system. Running it directly off the EIDE controller, if you can and know how to, would help narrow the problem.

It's also possible that the problem is in the chipset. I remember some Intel chipsets having problems like this a couple of years ago, when USB 2.0 was still new. Intel released a driver update that fixed it. Any updates available from your mobo manufacturer that might address this?

Sometimes going into Device Manager and uninstalling all of the USB controllers and hubs, and letting the machine re-detect them on boot, also fixes problems like this. But there's some risk that they may not be re-detected on boot, especially if the chipset driver is flaky.

Also, just on a lark... In the properties for the USB Root Hub, under the Power Management tab, is the box to allow the computer to turn off the device to save power checked? If so, try un-checking it.

These problems only seem simple. Device recognition is very core to a computer, so the problem can lie almost anywhere. That's why I usually suggest doing all the spring cleaning stuff first. A lot of times, the problems wind up being miraculously fixed in the process.
 
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Okay, a smiley hijacked part of your post... The drive itself disappears from Disk Drives in the Device Manager, is what I think you typed.

If you wanted to and felt comfortable with it, you could remove the hard drive from inside the enclosure and install it on the EIDE cable (assuming it's an EIDE drive and you have a spare position for it), and see if is properly detected. It's possible that the problem is in the drive itself, or in the USB/EIDE interface, or somewhere else along the system. Running it directly off the EIDE controller, if you can and know how to, would help narrow the problem.

It's also possible that the problem is in the chipset. I remember some Intel chipsets having problems like this a couple of years ago, when USB 2.0 was still new. Intel released a driver update that fixed it. Any updates available from your mobo manufacturer that might address this?

Sometimes going into Device Manager and uninstalling all of the USB controllers and hubs, and letting the machine re-detect them on boot, also fixes problems like this. But there's some risk that they may not be re-detected on boot, especially if the chipset driver is flaky.

Also, just on a lark... In the properties for the USB Root Hub, under the Power Management tab, is the box to allow the computer to turn off the device to save power checked? If so, try un-checking it.

These problems only seem simple. Device recognition is very core to a computer, so the problem can lie almost anywhere. That's why I usually suggest doing all the spring cleaning stuff first. A lot of times, the problems wind up being miraculously fixed in the process.

How can I identify the motherboard? Properties says it's a "standadrd system device" The Intel chipset is a 865GV/82865G/GV integrated graphics controller.

Tried everything else, except for connecting the drive to the eide cable. The machine does seem to be more stable and run faster after the intel driver update. No joy on the drive recognition prob.

Word of warning. If anyone here has a Dell, do not update your machine from their support website. Caused all sorts of trouble. Read the list of updates available for your hardware, then go to the vendor's site for the download directly.

I'll see if maybe I can play with a friend's windows machine for a while.See definitively if it is a drive problem.

Thanks for the tips.
 
The 865GV/82865G/GV is a graphics controller. Is there an identifier for the USB Root Hub / Controller?

It sound like you installed the .inf update for the chipset. That's a good thing. But there were also a series of USB updates that aren't included in that update (which mainly related to hardware detection).

Tell ya what... What model Dell is it? I can probably track down the download from that information.

By the way: When it comes to motherboard-level drivers, the Dell site usually just serves the Intel drivers (on Intel based systems, of course). Some of the other stuff is proprietary, but they tend to provide the genuine article on mobo-level components.
 
The 865GV/82865G/GV is a graphics controller. Is there an identifier for the USB Root Hub / Controller?

It sound like you installed the .inf update for the chipset. That's a good thing. But there were also a series of USB updates that aren't included in that update (which mainly related to hardware detection).

Tell ya what... What model Dell is it? I can probably track down the download from that information.

By the way: When it comes to motherboard-level drivers, the Dell site usually just serves the Intel drivers (on Intel based systems, of course). Some of the other stuff is proprietary, but they tend to provide the genuine article on mobo-level components.

According to the Intel detection utility:

The chipset is the 865G series.
The USB Host controller 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R)

The Intel support section gave me the impression thet the infinstall.exe file updated both the .inf's and the USB drivers for USB controllers 82801EB and subsequent. I didn't see any USB drivers with dates later than 2005. Could be wrong though. Intel support engineers must get paid by the word.

The problem I had with the Dell support page was that it would link the update to missing pages at the vendor sites.
 
Okay, that update does incorporate the USB update.

At this point, I would have to say the only thing left to do (assuming you've already tried another USB cable and that other devices work correctly on the USB bus) would be to take the drive out and install it on the IDE cable, assuming it's IDE and you have a slot. It's not that hard to do; just make sure you set the jumpers correctly.

If the drive works properly on the IDE cable, then that narrows it down to the IDE/USB converter in the hard drive enclosure. If not, then it's the drive itself.
 
Okay, that update does incorporate the USB update.

At this point, I would have to say the only thing left to do (assuming you've already tried another USB cable and that other devices work correctly on the USB bus) would be to take the drive out and install it on the IDE cable, assuming it's IDE and you have a slot. It's not that hard to do; just make sure you set the jumpers correctly.

If the drive works properly on the IDE cable, then that narrows it down to the IDE/USB converter in the hard drive enclosure. If not, then it's the drive itself.

That really isn't proving a whole lot. Yeah--the drive might work fine on IDE. That doesn't mean that the "IDE/USB" converter is defective. It could still easily be a software issue between the computer and the "IDE/USB" converter.
 
That really isn't proving a whole lot. Yeah--the drive might work fine on IDE. That doesn't mean that the "IDE/USB" converter is defective. It could still easily be a software issue between the computer and the "IDE/USB" converter.

Nonetheless, it narrows down the possibilities and identifies what part is not working, regardless of the reason.

A USB to IDE adapter is natively supported in XP and really shouldn't need any third-party software for simple drive access. But yes, it's possible that a third-party driver or application is interfering with it.
 
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