WWII Aviation Collectibles - Authentication?

ausrere

ausrere

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
1,682
Location
Austin, TX
Display Name
Display name:
Lisa
Hi Folks.

Does anybody know of anyone in Texas who can authenticate WWII collectibles (without costing me an arm and leg)? I have what looks to be a WWII pilot's emergency sustenance vest that I'd like to get authenticated. I've shown it to a couple of WWII pilot vets who tell me it looks real to them, but to be honest it's in such good condition I'm a little skeptical. Doesn't look like it's ever been worn, and it looks so new that it could have been made yesterday. The tag on the inside says:

VEST, EMERGENCY SUSTENANCE
TYPE C-1
SPEC. NO. 3206
ORDER NO. W33-038-AC6640
SEARS, ROEBUCK AND CO
PHILADELPHIA, PA.
MFD. BY RELIANCE MFG. CO. CHICAGO, ILL
PROPERTY A.F. U.S. ARMY

It has the ARMY AIR FORCES logo stenciled on the front left breast area. Pockets in all the right places and labeled correctly. Pockets were empty though.

My searches on the web seem to indicate the data on the tag is correct, but I'd like to get someone who knows look at it and tell me if it's authentic or a replica. It came out of a trunk at an estate sale.

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
If you only want authentication and not valuation, typically museums will do that for you. I would think that if it appears to be authentic by your examination and reports of those who were there, it probably is as they don't really have enough value to counterfeit.
 
ausrere said:
Hi Folks.

Does anybody know of anyone in Texas who can authenticate WWII collectibles (without costing me an arm and leg)? I have what looks to be a WWII pilot's emergency sustenance vest that I'd like to get authenticated. I've shown it to a couple of WWII pilot vets who tell me it looks real to them, but to be honest it's in such good condition I'm a little skeptical. Doesn't look like it's ever been worn, and it look so new that it could have been made yesterday. The tag on the inside says:

VEST, EMERGENCY SUSTENANCE
TYPE C-1
SPEC. NO. 3206
ORDER NO. W33-038-AC6640
SEARS, ROEBUCK AND CO
PHILADELPHIA, PA.
MFD. BY RELIANCE MFG. CO. CHICAGO, ILL
PROPERTY A.F. U.S. ARMY

It has the ARMY AIR FORCES logo stenciled on the front left breast area. Pockets in all the right places and labeled correctly. Pockets were empty though.

My searches on the web seem to indicate the data on the tag is correct, but I'd like to get someone who knows look at it and tell me if it's authentic or a replica. It came out of a trunk at an estate sale.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

With your permission, I'll post it on there and see if anyone knows. There are still a few fliers from WWII on there. I also have a friend that graduated from Navy flight school when the war ended that may have some insight.

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
With your permission, I'll post it on there and see if anyone knows. There are still a few fliers from WWII on there. I also have a friend that graduated from Navy flight school when the war ended that may have some insight.

Dave
Click to expand...

That'd be great Dave, thanks!
 
Here's one suggestion:

Dave:
I'd suggest contacting the curator of collections at the National Museum of the Pacific War in Fredericksburg, TX and see who he might recommend. http://www.nimitz-museum.org Otherwise you run the risk of it being authentic and some sleazy collector telling you isn't and offering to "take it off your hands."

Best,
Andy
 
ausrere said:
Hi Folks.

Does anybody know of anyone in Texas who can authenticate WWII collectibles (without costing me an arm and leg)? I have what looks to be a WWII pilot's emergency sustenance vest that I'd like to get authenticated. I've shown it to a couple of WWII pilot vets who tell me it looks real to them, but to be honest it's in such good condition I'm a little skeptical. Doesn't look like it's ever been worn, and it look so new that it could have been made yesterday. The tag on the inside says:

VEST, EMERGENCY SUSTENANCE
TYPE C-1
SPEC. NO. 3206
ORDER NO. W33-038-AC6640
SEARS, ROEBUCK AND CO
PHILADELPHIA, PA.
MFD. BY RELIANCE MFG. CO. CHICAGO, ILL
PROPERTY A.F. U.S. ARMY

It has the ARMY AIR FORCES logo stenciled on the front left breast area. Pockets in all the right places and labeled correctly. Pockets were empty though.

My searches on the web seem to indicate the data on the tag is correct, but I'd like to get someone who knows look at it and tell me if it's authentic or a replica. It came out of a trunk at an estate sale.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I have a reprint of an AAF manual, "Pilots' Information File", dated April 1, 1944. It describes various articles of pilot and aircrew equipment; rafts, life preservers, signal pistols, parachutes, oxygen masks, flying suits, etc. It includes ten types of Emergency Sustenance Kits, the designations are E-1 through E-10. No C-1, and no vests.

Something else seems odd to me, why is "SEARS, ROEBUCK AND CO" on the tag? Sears was a retailer, what would their involvment be in an article made by "RELIANCE MFG. CO." under a US Army contract? As written the tag suggests Sears was headquartered in Philadelphia, to my knowledge it's always been in Chicago.
 
roncachamp said:
I have a reprint of an AAF manual, "Pilots' Information File", dated April 1, 1944. It describes various articles of pilot and aircrew equipment; rafts, life preservers, signal pistols, parachutes, oxygen masks, flying suits, etc. It includes ten types of Emergency Sustenance Kits, the designations are E-1 through E-10. No C-1, and no vests.

Something else seems odd to me, why is "SEARS, ROEBUCK AND CO" on the tag? Sears was a retailer, what would their involvment be in an article made by "RELIANCE MFG. CO." under a US Army contract? As written the tag suggests Sears was headquartered in Philadelphia, to my knowledge it's always been in Chicago.
Click to expand...

The searching I've done indicates there was a C-1 vest, lots of them. Here's one page I found about it. They started making them in 1943. The tag on the one I have looks exactly like the next to the last tag on this page (labeled "2nd and 3rd VAR".

I've sent an email to the author of the site, but I haven't heard anything back from him. I'm not really interested in selling it, I just want to verify it's authenticity.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Here's one suggestion:

Dave:
I'd suggest contacting the curator of collections at the National Museum of the Pacific War in Fredericksburg, TX and see who he might recommend. http://www.nimitz-museum.org Otherwise you run the risk of it being authentic and some sleazy collector telling you isn't and offering to "take it off your hands."

Best,
Andy
Click to expand...

May be time for a drive to Fredericksburg!
 
Keith Lane said:
Does it look like the one on this web page?

http://www.lightninghawkmilitaria.com/c-1-page-1.html
Click to expand...

We must have posted at the same time. :D Yes, it looks exactly like that only in perfect condition. Like just off of the assembly line kind of perfect (which is why I'm skeptical). I suspect, if it's real, it was issued to someone at the end of the war who never wore it. Got released and put it away in trunk when they got home and forgot about it.
 
Lisa: Any idea what material it is made of?
A friend's wife is an expert on textiles and he plans to ask her what type of aging that textile would show even if properly stored.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Lisa: Any idea what material it is made of?
A friend's wife is an expert on textiles and he plans to ask her what type of aging that textile would show even if properly stored.

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...

I'm not sure Dave. It sort of looks like nylon, but I think it's cotton material with some sort of coating. Looks like BDU material only a little slicker.
 
I got an email back from the author of the C-1 collectors site. He says based on the info and photos, it appears to be authentic to him. He says that reproductions usually have solid cloth backs instead of the webbing straps the originals had. The tag and markings are all right on for the 3rd variant of the C-1. He says the value is around $200. I'm not interested in selling it, but it's nice to know that it's worth more than I paid to get it. I bought a old trunk from an estate sale with all the contents, including the vest, for $75.00. The trunk itself was worth that. I need to get a shadow box or something to display it in now. For the moment it's tucked away in a safe, but it seems kind of sad to hide it away like that.

I still may take it with me to the museum to get someone to actually look at it and verify it's authentic though.
 
Here's one opinion. A bit skeptical like you are:

Dave, my sister said she could not help in dating the vest in question
without actually seeing the material.

After looking at the link you included (below), she said, "The descriptions
give a lot of clues so your friend had better pay attention to them." Good
point.

http://www.lightninghawkmilitaria.com/c-1-page-1.html

My opinion: If it looks too new, it probably is.

Ask your mother to show you some sheets in her linen closet that are 50 years
old and never used. (She'll probably have some; wedding gifts, maybe.)
They'll look their age.

Second comment:
The two letter postal codes for states didn't come along until the sixties. I would be very suspicious.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Here's one opinion. A bit skeptical like you are:

Dave, my sister said she could not help in dating the vest in question
without actually seeing the material.

After looking at the link you included (below), she said, "The descriptions
give a lot of clues so your friend had better pay attention to them." Good
point.

http://www.lightninghawkmilitaria.com/c-1-page-1.html

My opinion: If it looks too new, it probably is.

Ask your mother to show you some sheets in her linen closet that are 50 years
old and never used. (She'll probably have some; wedding gifts, maybe.)
They'll look their age.

Second comment:
The two letter postal codes for states didn't come along until the sixties. I would be very suspicious.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the condition is the only thing that makes me skeptical and why I want someone to physically look at it. I'm not worried about the state abbreviation, I noticed that and it was the first thing I researched. The period after it indicates it's an abbreviation, not a postal code. The War Department had a standard guide to state abbreviations in the 1940's prior to the postal codes adoption. PA. was the standard way to abbreviate Pennsylvania in War Department documentation and labeling. I found lots of documentation of WWII labeling and packaging with the PA abbreviation and it's mentioned in Encyclopedia of United States Army insignia and uniforms. Some states had three or four letters (like TEX or TENN), but some had the two (VA, RI, OK, etc).
 
The Vest you are discribing is absolutely WWII issue, these were made from a type of olive drab tackle twill, the reason it is in such great condition for it's age is, that the Army Air Force had procured arround 200,000 of these kits for distrubution, when the war ended the contracts were cancled, most of the remaining vests were sold on the surplus market for years after WWII. Some were retained for use by the US Air Force, Navy, and Marines. Unused mint condition vest are worth arround $75.00 to $200.00 depending on there rareity, a 1st variation vest, is harder to find then a 3rd variation vest. The fact is that SEARS, ROEBUCK AND CO. did manufacture these vest, the one you have was made by the sub contractor RELIANCE MFG. CO. The C-1 vest collectors site should be up and running in a few mounths it was attacked and has to be rebuilt!

I hope this clears up some of the questions!

Cheers!
Michael Minovich
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top