WTH Job Interview

No fallback.
My current company is shutting down so I don't have a lot to lose.

If I had a perm gig I wouldn't be entertaining this.

Exactly, you have nothing to lose and you might have some fun. You also might consider moving into the city and renting out your house if it seems to work out; or get a helicopter. Nothing will make you hate a good job faster than spending 5 hrs every day in traffic.
 
I hope it works out, but I'm wary of companies whose stated goal is "make a bunch of money by selling out in 2-3 years".

My ex-wife worked for a startup like that, artsy appointments everywhere, very trendy workspaces, free snacks and beverages everywhere. A dream come true.

Then she showed up for work one day and there was a security guard checking name badges at the front door. He said "yup, you are on the list, standby while we get somebody to walk you up to get your stuff, you are fired." That was true for 90% of the employees that day.

Like I said, I hope it works out, but be careful. Businesses spending money on fancy aviation sculptures and encouraging employees to drink beer at work are not prioritizing well, IMO. That's what you do when you are a ten billion dollar company, not a startup.
 
I hope it works out, but I'm wary of companies whose stated goal is "make a bunch of money by selling out in 2-3 years".

My ex-wife worked for a startup like that, artsy appointments everywhere, very trendy workspaces, free snacks and beverages everywhere. A dream come true.

Then she showed up for work one day and there was a security guard checking name badges at the front door. He said "yup, you are on the list, standby while we get somebody to walk you up to get your stuff, you are fired." That was true for 90% of the employees that day.

Like I said, I hope it works out, but be careful. Businesses spending money on fancy aviation sculptures and encouraging employees to drink beer at work are not prioritizing well, IMO. That's what you do when you are a ten billion dollar company, not a startup.

It is a tough choice

I think if I go in to it thinking of it as a 2 yr contract, then I can handle that. The money is roughly ~1000 net monthly more than I am making now.

And I have now worked for 2 startups that went out of business and 2 multi-billion dollar companies that have gone out of business (both made claims of being recession proof) My current company is 52 years old and closing it's doors

I am starting to feel like it doesn't matter where you work nothing is bullet proof (There are obvious exceptions)


I joked with them. "Take a look at my resume. If you want your company to go out of business, give me the job"
 
Shoot, am I the only one here who doesn't see a down side?
 
Why the dumping on startups? Sure they can fail and many do, but its the only way to get in on the ground floor and that's where the crazy money is in life. You can help your odds along in picking a winner by just looking at the business plan and seeing if it makes sense. After that look at management and see if they are solid people.

If you have a business plan that makes sense and quality management you're looking at near 50/50 odds of it working out and that ain't too shabby for a potential huge payday!

Good luck!
 
HaHa true

You'll come for the beer.
You'll stay because you have to.

Typically if work has beer on tap, the hours will be long. It's how they manage to keep nerdy social misfits, provide beer and a social setting with other nerdy misfits, they'll work till 2am.
 
Shoot, am I the only one here who doesn't see a down side?

No, I'm with you, ride it out for what it's worth. Well, I do see one downside, the commute, that is a horrible commute if you travel between 6:30am and 7:30pm, and is not guaranteed good outside then. If after a week or so of things working out, I would be relocating. Anything more than 15 minutes is too long. That's what's nice about working boats, no commute at all.
 
Shoot, am I the only one here who doesn't see a down side?

Yup.

It's obviously hyped, and it sure sounds like every small Silicon Valley company in 2000. "We're not profitable, but we're pre-IPO, going public in 1-2 years!" Most of those ended up dropped by the wayside when the dotcom bust happened (AKA when investors figured out that paying people 6 figures to play ping pong, with a really stupid business plan or none at all was not a good idea).

So, hedge your bets. NEVER invest in the company or accept stock in lieu of salary. Keep your eyes open and your butt covered. And then enjoy it until they F up. Which will likely occur rather suddenly.
 
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No, I'm with you, ride it out for what it's worth. Well, I do see one downside, the commute, that is a horrible commute if you travel between 6:30am and 7:30pm, and is not guaranteed good outside then. If after a week or so of things working out, I would be relocating. Anything more than 15 minutes is too long. That's what's nice about working boats, no commute at all.

The commute sucks but when I say sucks
I currently commute 27 miles
This would be 34 miles

That 27 miles takes me 40-60 minutes.

WFH 2-3 days a week may make that non issue as I sit here in my sweats having not showered for the day yet.
 
We are looking to be aquired in 2-3 years and everyone walks away happy.

This would concern me. I've worked for four startups in Silicon Valley:

#1 and #2 - Two in the early 2000's that went under.
#3 - One that started as a startup, IPO'd, and was bought by a mega-corp a couple years after IPO. However, I came on board post-IPO so didn't have much in the way of equity.
#4 - My current company is a startup I joined pre-IPO and they've since IPO'd and are doing well.

The first two that failed, the management admitted during my interviews their exit strategy was to get acquired.

#3 didn't intend on getting acquired, but did because the offer from the acquirer was a good one for the shareholders.

#4 has no intention of getting acquired either, although as with any public company, it could happen some day if the offer is good enough for the shareholders.

The thing I learned is...be wary of companies whose exit strategy from the beginning is to get acquired. Based on my own personal experiences, I place a hell of a lot more faith in people who are building a business to stand on its own. I am very wary of people who would start out saying their exit strategy is to get acquired. To me, that means they're already looking to put as much lipstick on the pig as possible just to get bought.

I'm also very leery of seeing a workplace littered with "shinies" (as we used to call them). Expensive baubles, artwork, espresso machines, etc. The first startups I worked at that failed had all that junk and it didn't matter one bit. The last two were much more frugal (bordering on cheap, which I sometimes find annoying) but made it.

Lastly, if you decide to go to work for them, be sure and get as much equity out of them as you can, and don't consider only the number of options. That number alone is meaningless. Ask for the total number of shares outstanding so you can calculate your equity PERCENTAGE. Be sure and dilute that number some if they intend to get more rounds of funding.

It amazes me the number of people who only look at the number of options and base their decision only on that.

I'd much rather have "only" 10,000 options in a company with 100,000 shares outstanding, than 100,000 options in a company with 100,000,000 shares outstanding. It's all about the equity ownership PERCENTAGE, not just the number of options.

Anyways, good luck in your decision!
 
I've worked for startups and multi-billion dollar global companies. There is no such thing as job security, unless you work for yourself or the government. Even most solvent companies have no issue with layoffs when the books need a boost, and who stays and who goes often isn't anything more than a numbers game. Every job has pros and cons, so it's just a matter of how the balance works out for you, and whether there are enough worthwhile perks (such as more income or responsibility) to mitigate some of the cons (such as a commute).

Increases in income can always stay in your bank account to help mitigate the risks associated with a presumably less stable job or company. Startup companies have offered me more experience in a shorter period of time than I could have ever received at a larger, more mature company, but they weren't all a great cultural fit. Corporate politics can be as bad or worse in smaller companies than larger ones.

After a few jobs over nearly two decades, I've reached the conclusion that what matters most is company culture. Does the company generally share your [work-related] values, or will it be a miserable place for you to be? I could probably tolerate a lousy commute for an enjoyable job, but could likely not tolerate a miserable job even for significantly more money. On the other hand, if you know that you're soon to be unemployed, an income is an income--and you might find that you like the job after all.


JKG
 
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Thanks. I am not overly concerned about the equity thing. It is about 1 percent

Lets say my current gig ends in 4-6 months
I have only been looking for a week, and this is the first response I have gotten.

I am weighing my options
1. Stay where I am at and keep looking for something closer to home.
Risk: money unknown and work from home unknown

2. Take advantage of this as it pays well and has WFH options even though the drive sucks
Risk: Certainly seems short term / one more short stint cluttering up my resume / likely be in this exact same boat 1-3 years from now.

The WFH thing is a big deal because Nannies are expensive and I get to have breaks / lunches w/ the kids.
 
I'd be wanting to know a lot about their business plan and current financial state. I get nervous about any company who HAS to be acquired for a ridiculous amount or they will fail. How long can they continue to operate with the current funding they have? What is their plan when that funding runs dry?

I would assume they won't get acquired and you will lose the job at some point. The question is how long will that be? Any job is better than no job, IMO.
 
He says they have the cash to operate for 2 years and are going to go for 1 more round of funding which he says will be the last round.

I am not sure what A level B level C level funding is. They mentioned those phrases but I was on info overload already at that point.
 
Question
does a VC sinking capital into something give it more credibility?
Not being a business owner (not a good one anyway) I kind of felt like 2 VCs investing 4.5 and 1.5 respectively legitimzes it a bit more.

Maybe that is meaningless in the grand scheme of things?
 
This would concern me. I've worked for four startups in Silicon Valley:

#1 and #2 - Two in the early 2000's that went under.
#3 - One that started as a startup, IPO'd, and was bought by a mega-corp a couple years after IPO. However, I came on board post-IPO so didn't have much in the way of equity.
#4 - My current company is a startup I joined pre-IPO and they've since IPO'd and are doing well.

The first two that failed, the management admitted during my interviews their exit strategy was to get acquired.

#3 didn't intend on getting acquired, but did because the offer from the acquirer was a good one for the shareholders.

#4 has no intention of getting acquired either, although as with any public company, it could happen some day if the offer is good enough for the shareholders.

The thing I learned is...be wary of companies whose exit strategy from the beginning is to get acquired. Based on my own personal experiences, I place a hell of a lot more faith in people who are building a business to stand on its own. I am very wary of people who would start out saying their exit strategy is to get acquired. To me, that means they're already looking to put as much lipstick on the pig as possible just to get bought.

I'm also very leery of seeing a workplace littered with "shinies" (as we used to call them). Expensive baubles, artwork, espresso machines, etc. The first startups I worked at that failed had all that junk and it didn't matter one bit. The last two were much more frugal (bordering on cheap, which I sometimes find annoying) but made it.

Lastly, if you decide to go to work for them, be sure and get as much equity out of them as you can, and don't consider only the number of options. That number alone is meaningless. Ask for the total number of shares outstanding so you can calculate your equity PERCENTAGE. Be sure and dilute that number some if they intend to get more rounds of funding.

It amazes me the number of people who only look at the number of options and base their decision only on that.

I'd much rather have "only" 10,000 options in a company with 100,000 shares outstanding, than 100,000 options in a company with 100,000,000 shares outstanding. It's all about the equity ownership PERCENTAGE, not just the number of options.

Anyways, good luck in your decision!


+1000000000!

Alternately do what the senior guy did at the place I was at. Almost no equity. You pay me the going rate for my expertise PLUS a significant margin for the risk I'm taking at your startup. I'll buy my own investments with CASH.

Technically we all did that to some extent. Salaries were above industry standard at the beginning but stagnated until the bubble popped.

Your base salary should still be higher at a startup than at a place you could disappear into a corner and die and no one would notice for a week. It's going to be a ton of work. Too many people fall into the trap of "they'll make it up to me later". Later they'll have investors crawling over every penny during due-diligence. Negotiate your value to the company early.

Money talks. Bull**** walks. Seriously.

Equity shares are worth the same dollar amount as the toilet paper hanging in the roller in the men's room until the execs execute on whatever their plan is to fund them. Your part is to bust ass and build until then. No guarantees.

If I were you I'd be negotiating a hard work from home day with that commute. Even just one will make the drives worth it on the other days.
 
He says they have the cash to operate for 2 years and are going to go for 1 more round of funding which he says will be the last round.

I am not sure what A level B level C level funding is. They mentioned those phrases but I was on info overload already at that point.


Levels of funding are often tied to who gets paid first from the assets if the company folds and sells at a fire sale. Employee equity as a general rule is always last behind founders shares which are behind the people who provided the capital. Shuffling of those sometimes happens when founders hold the majority shares from their own capital.

I was employee 42 out of 500+ and had founder's shares. My Net after taxes was enough to buy a well used car out of what was left of a $100M business. The numbers get diluted VERY quickly when the capital burn rate is high.

We were building data centers and were EBITDA positive but not making a true profit when the dot com bubble burst in November of 2001. The data centers have paid for themselves many times over for their new owners since then. In fact they're so good I've worked for two companies since then who had their gear located in them.

Question
does a VC sinking capital into something give it more credibility?
Not being a business owner (not a good one anyway) I kind of felt like 2 VCs investing 4.5 and 1.5 respectively legitimzes it a bit more.

Maybe that is meaningless in the grand scheme of things?


VCs toss around money like water in times when investors can't find good investments and want them to find better rates of return. All VC funding in the single digit million dollar ranges is, is a short term bet.

VC funding in double and triple millions is a better indicator of worth, but still, keep in mind that most VC money is the money billionaires are willing to lose at the gambling table because it won't hurt them at all. But they do employ hard ass auditors and accountants and they carefully write contracts on the investments with hard cut off dates and hard growth number goals.

VC money isn't "get rich slow" money. It's "maybe this investment will pay for my next boat" money. VCs want their payback in very short timeframes measured in low single digit numbers of years.

I'd treat this as a two year job and that's it. Knowing it's a two year gig going in, and planning appropriately. Anything after that is gravy. Keep the expectation of longevity out of your head and then try to build something that will outlast the VC capital burn rate and make them back their money plus a profit.

If they're already saying they've got two years before they're done, it isn't making a profit yet.
 
I have only been looking for a week, and this is the first response I have gotten.

In that case, keep looking so you have a better perspective on the set of opportunities actually available (yeah, this is probably redundant advice.)

I haven't done any job hunting in about 10 years, but allegedly the job market is better than it has been in a while, so I imagine that you'll uncover more opportunities in the next few weeks - so long as you keep looking for them.
 
I.T. in Dallas is really hot right now.
The one plus is I will get a larger base no matter where I go.
My dying company famously under pays people but provides other non monitary compensation.
 
EDI is just a fancy name for 80 column cards... Think Mainframe card readers. The best I have seen is Phantom Stock Options. We issue you an IOU to get a stock option at a price to be named later. People took it. I took the cash. Start ups are a lot of work. If you go in thinking to make a lot of cash in salary and someone else will get the GulfStream reward, then they are OK. The grass is not greener on the other side, it is just another pasture with a barb wire fence around it.
 
I just finished a 5 1/2 hour job interview!
Looks like a unique gig. It is a startup with a solid backing

CEO says we have deep pockets so we can pay as well as the big guys. We also give everyone equity in the company.
We are looking to be aquired in 2-3 years and everyone walks away happy.

I think I talked to everyone in the company.

1st question asked at the interview
"Welcome Bryan, Which beer do you prefer Peticolas or revolver?"


Then I am shown this in their break room
attachment.php


Looks like a good gig if I can stomach the drive.
Denton to Downtown Dallas which would be hell but I can come and leave when I want and work from home a couple days a week.


CTO is a pilot and I see this in the entry way (Its a sign right?)

attachment.php



Holy Hell I am beat.
I may take the gig as I have nothing to lose at this point and it will restart my "countdown to ownership"

What a weird day.

When they go belly up... Let me know so I can buy that KOOL turbine engine centerpiece at the liquidation auction...
 
When they go belly up... Let me know so I can buy that KOOL turbine engine centerpiece at the liquidation auction...


Funny you should mention that. Former co-workers still have all the furniture in their houses of the place I was at. Lovely desks and such.

I got ten full height rack cabinets for the ham radio clubs for $10/ea. Storing 10 of those 7' high bastards in my garage until all the site trips were completed to install them was a huge PITA. Getting them home on an unstable utility trailer was an exercise in patience and slow driving, too. ;)
 
I'd be wanting to know a lot about their business plan and current financial state. I get nervous about any company who HAS to be acquired for a ridiculous amount or they will fail. How long can they continue to operate with the current funding they have? What is their plan when that funding runs dry?

I would assume they won't get acquired and you will lose the job at some point. The question is how long will that be? Any job is better than no job, IMO.

What is the difference if the compensation is good in the mean time?:dunno: If you want long term employment, go to WalMart or McDonalds, you can easily build a long term career with either.
 
What is the difference if the compensation is good in the mean time?:dunno: If you want long term employment, go to WalMart or McDonalds, you can easily build a long term career with either.

Because there are umpteen hundred startups where compensation could be good. I'd want to pick the one least likely to drop me on my ass with a five second notice. I also would not want to work someplace that's managed like ****. I have to believe in what the company is doing to get satisfaction out of my time investment. More to it then money.
 
Because there are umpteen hundred startups where compensation could be good. I'd want to pick the one least likely to drop me on my ass with a five second notice. I also would not want to work someplace that's managed like ****. I have to believe in what the company is doing to get satisfaction out of my time investment. More to it then money.

True, but I haven't heard anything negative with regards to those issues from Bryan. He hasn't indicated dislike for them, and we have no indication that what they do is not beneficial nor that they are managed poorly. You never know, this might be the CEOs 5th time through the cycle and does well at it.:dunno: He may enjoy it and stay on after an IPO, or it may fail and he'll be looking again in 6 months. So what?:dunno:
 
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It is a tough choice

I think if I go in to it thinking of it as a 2 yr contract, then I can handle that. The money is roughly ~1000 net monthly more than I am making now.

And I have now worked for 2 startups that went out of business and 2 multi-billion dollar companies that have gone out of business (both made claims of being recession proof) My current company is 52 years old and closing it's doors

I am starting to feel like it doesn't matter where you work nothing is bullet proof (There are obvious exceptions)


I joked with them. "Take a look at my resume. If you want your company to go out of business, give me the job"

Thanks. I am not overly concerned about the equity thing. It is about 1 percent

Lets say my current gig ends in 4-6 months
I have only been looking for a week, and this is the first response I have gotten.

I am weighing my options
1. Stay where I am at and keep looking for something closer to home.
Risk: money unknown and work from home unknown

2. Take advantage of this as it pays well and has WFH options even though the drive sucks
Risk: Certainly seems short term / one more short stint cluttering up my resume / likely be in this exact same boat 1-3 years from now.

The WFH thing is a big deal because Nannies are expensive and I get to have breaks / lunches w/ the kids.

I'd do four things if I was in that situation:

1) See if you can negotiate an early termination from your current company. They may find it beneficial to pay you to leave early and save the salary they're paying you for the next 4-6 months (and if not, you can still leave).

2) Try to negotiate with the new job to work from home as much as possible. Not sure what the specifics are regarding this job, but most IT jobs (as you know) can be done remotely. Even meetings via Skype, etc can be done while avoiding a commute. Maybe working 2-3 half days at the office (come in at 10, leave at 2) would work? Anything you can do to avoid the commute (especially during rush hour) will likely help.

3) Take the new job, putting the extra $1K/month aside as a rainy day fund in case things don't work out at the new place (call it your airplane fund, if you want... and if things DON'T go south, there you go!)

4) Keep job hunting. You have a paycheck, so you maybe don't need to be quite as aggressive, but I'd still want to know I had employment options should the startup disappear overnight. (And use the money set aside in #3 to get you to your next steady paycheck.)

Good luck!
 
The commute sucks but when I say sucks
I currently commute 27 miles
This would be 34 miles

That 27 miles takes me 40-60 minutes.

WFH 2-3 days a week may make that non issue as I sit here in my sweats having not showered for the day yet.

Bryan,

I went from a 52 mile 1.5-3 hr drive in San Diego to a 7 mile 15 minute drive.. I don't miss the extra time in the car.
 
Why the dumping on startups? Sure they can fail and many do, but its the only way to get in on the ground floor and that's where the crazy money is in life. You can help your odds along in picking a winner by just looking at the business plan and seeing if it makes sense. After that look at management and see if they are solid people.

If you have a business plan that makes sense and quality management you're looking at near 50/50 odds of it working out and that ain't too shabby for a potential huge payday!

Good luck!

Years ago I was friends with a married couple who decided early in their careers to pursue a dual career strategy in the Silicon Valley. The husband would work stable jobs at established companies, while the wife would go from startup to startup, hoping to hit paydirt. Her 4th or 5th gig was Google, where she was employee number 8 or something like that. They've both been retired for about 10 years now.
 
Years ago I was friends with a married couple who decided early in their careers to pursue a dual career strategy in the Silicon Valley. The husband would work stable jobs at established companies, while the wife would go from startup to startup, hoping to hit paydirt. Her 4th or 5th gig was Google, where she was employee number 8 or something like that. They've both been retired for about 10 years now.


You can also do that by simply adjusting lifestyle to live on a single paycheck. Then when the places fail and you've been banking the difference you really don't care.
 
Years ago I was friends with a married couple who decided early in their careers to pursue a dual career strategy in the Silicon Valley. The husband would work stable jobs at established companies, while the wife would go from startup to startup, hoping to hit paydirt. Her 4th or 5th gig was Google, where she was employee number 8 or something like that. They've both been retired for about 10 years now.

Smart couple.... Ground floor Google employees are all billionaires...:yes:
 
I'm sitting here laughing that Henning just told Bryan to live the "greedy" lifestyle he claims is destroying the country.

The difference between ideology and real world application right there. Ha.
 
Years ago I was friends with a married couple who decided early in their careers to pursue a dual career strategy in the Silicon Valley. The husband would work stable jobs at established companies, while the wife would go from startup to startup, hoping to hit paydirt. Her 4th or 5th gig was Google, where she was employee number 8 or something like that. They've both been retired for about 10 years now.

My wife and I have done the same - I took a job with a large stable law firm while she started hopping around start-up biotechs. Out of six she has one IPO and one acquisition. Three years ago I got tired of the 80 hour work weeks and jumped on the start-up bandwagon too...and with some luck we're looking at another IPO next year.

Bryan - like a poster said before, I can't see any downside. Start-up work is awesome, enjoy the energy and excitement of a group of people pursuing happiness the American way! The equity is gravy, don't bet your future on it. That being said, if they offered you around one percent fully diluted you've done pretty well for yourself. You'll be in a pretty good position even after one more round of funding.

Go for it! :thumbsup:
 
I wish you good luck in the job hunt. Hope it works out for you! The oil industry is hot right now in Texas.
 
Question
does a VC sinking capital into something give it more credibility?
Not being a business owner (not a good one anyway) I kind of felt like 2 VCs investing 4.5 and 1.5 respectively legitimzes it a bit more.

Maybe that is meaningless in the grand scheme of things?


Should find out how much money is in the company already from investors and what the valuation was when the last round was closed. Gives you an idea how much money the company will look to sell for, and usually will target some multiple of that valuation to give the investors their return.

To give you a better idea, you may want to ask who the company would consider a target acquirer. And examples of other companies (and competitors) in their space (sector) who have been acquired recently - say last 12 months. It will give you a sense then of what the company can be bought for when averaging across these companies and also adjusting for revenue differences (and cash holdings). That will give you a loose sense then of what your stock could be worth if the company was sold at that equivalent value (adjusting for revenue) and as compared to the last valuation given during the last funding round.

And, oh by the way, the 1% equity you are being granted is a LOT of equity in a start up. Usually employee options pools for premoney companies are 10-15% outstanding so at 1%, you are being granted 10%-ish of available equity for employees. Non-founding, C-level officers are usually in the mid singles. And based on the loose description that the company has enough operating cash to last 24 months, it sounds like the company is already quite "stable" and in a scaling phase -- call it a "C" round. So yeah, the 1% equity is a very good chunk of equity.

Also note that if they are raising another round as planned, then they will dilute your ownership at that time. It could be small, it could be a lot. It depends on how well the company is doing.
 
Their biggest direct competitor was bought on Jan 27th of this year for 120m
That was another thing that I wonder if legitimizes them a little bit.
 
I work for a start up. All private investments, no VC. Taken 2 brachytherapy devices through FDA clearance. One is very unique. Now getting into sales and post-market studies.

When I started it was only a few people in a small lab. Now we are in a 16,000 sq. ft facility with 5k square ft of clean room space. Things are definitely easier now than before. Most notably I was recently able to switch my work hours to 7:30 - 4:30 to avoid rush hour traffic. Oh, and I actually have work hours now! Well I still have to travel but that's ok.

If the pay is competitive you have nothing to lose. Go for it.
 
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