Wrong engine shutdown

I really like what I have in the 310 on this matter. Left and right is easily and intuitively displayed right above the engine controls, but near the top of the glare shield for easy reference during takeoff. The JPI960 also has the alarm alerts that are left/right oriented above the top left of the G500.

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    1,011.6 KB · Views: 92
The main problem I see with having the instruments for each engine separated by a distance is that it makes them harder to compare against each other visually.
 
RotorAndWing said:
So what is your solution? What would you recommend?
Click to expand...
As I said in my first post in this thread, nothing short of eliminating humans will eliminate human errors. Obviously training reduces them, but it will never eliminate them. I don't have a solution to eliminate errors--not even the suggestion by the OP. Because eliminating errors isn't possible. We can only try to reduce them and mitigate the consequences.
 
I do hold a commercial multi-engine certificate but by no means claim to be multi-engine competent.

From a human factors stand-point I'm not a huge fan of single gauges that represent multiple independent systems with different needles or a switch to change to the other system.

This would engine all the engine gauges with two needles and would also include things like ammeters that have a switch to switch between alternators. I just think there's a better way to design human/machine interfaces that would lead to less confusion opportunities.
 
Lindberg said:
As I said in my first post in this thread, nothing short of eliminating humans will eliminate human errors. Obviously training reduces them, but it will never eliminate them. I don't have a solution to eliminate errors--not even the suggestion by the OP. Because eliminating errors isn't possible. We can only try to reduce them and mitigate the consequences.
Click to expand...

While it may be impossible to eliminate human error we've done a good job at reducing risk. And every day we continue progress in safety.

I'll let the statistics (air carrier, US) speak for them selves. Unfortunately for GA the accidents continue, and the root cause is lack of proficiency from lack of training and standardization.
 
jesse said:
I do hold a commercial multi-engine certificate but by no means claim to be multi-engine competent.

From a human factors stand-point I'm not a huge fan of single gauges that represent multiple independent systems with different needles or a switch to change to the other system.

This would engine all the engine gauges with two needles and would also include things like ammeters that have a switch to switch between alternators. I just think there's a better way to design human/machine interfaces that would lead to less confusion opportunities.
Click to expand...

I'd agree. At some point, Beech made the Barons with left and right engine gauges side by side, a la King Air. This is also how they are in the Cheyenne and Commander 690, at least the ones I flew. I think the double-needle gauges are really a worse solution, and the Beech setup is good.

What JT has in his 310 is also very nice. Having flown it, I'd say it improves your chances of correctly identifying a failed engine significantly.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'd agree. At some point, Beech made the Barons with left and right engine gauges side by side, a la King Air. This is also how they are in the Cheyenne and Commander 690, at least the ones I flew. I think the double-needle gauges are really a worse solution, and the Beech setup is good.

What JT has in his 310 is also very nice. Having flown it, I'd say it improves your chances of correctly identifying a failed engine significantly.
Click to expand...

What is it? A JPI EDM 960? Insight? Or something else more sophisticated?
The display on my JPI 760 went south and I am trying to decide between having it replaced or upgrade the system and get rid of the Piper engine instruments.
 
GRG55 said:
What is it? A JPI EDM 960? Insight? Or something else more sophisticated?
The display on my JPI 760 went south and I am trying to decide between having it replaced or upgrade the system and get rid of the Piper engine instruments.
Click to expand...

See post 41 - JPI EDM 960.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'd agree. At some point, Beech made the Barons with left and right engine gauges side by side, a la King Air. This is also how they are in the Cheyenne and Commander 690, at least the ones I flew. I think the double-needle gauges are really a worse solution, and the Beech setup is good.
Click to expand...
I also agree with this. I like side-by-side gauges, whether they are round or tapes, not double-needle gauges. I think they should be within the angle of vision that a person can focus on together, without moving their eyes.

Here is an example using tapes. Can you imagine if the tapes for the left engine were on the left side of the panel and the tape for the right engine were on the right side of the panel. :eek:

Please ignore the malfunction...

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1680.jpg
    IMG_1680.jpg
    168.3 KB · Views: 65
GRG55 said:
Thanks! Not sure how I missed that big picture first time...maybe the browser was slow painting it.
Click to expand...

My scan hits the chat/get bars, fuel flows and oil pressures a few times on every takeoff. Very intuitive and easy. I would have no issues diagnosing left/right.
 
RotorAndWing said:
While it may be impossible to eliminate human error we've done a good job at reducing risk. And every day we continue progress in safety.
Click to expand...

We seem to agree then since the only thing I've disagreed with was your original statement that, "Quality training and recurrent training eliminate those errors."
 
Lindberg said:
We seem to agree then since the only thing I've disagreed with was your original statement that, "Quality training and recurrent training eliminate those errors."
Click to expand...
Perhaps "eliminate" was not quite the right word since it's an absolute...
 
James_Dean said:
My scan hits the chat/get bars, fuel flows and oil pressures a few times on every takeoff. Very intuitive and easy. I would have no issues diagnosing left/right.
Click to expand...

I would concur with that, especially having failed both left and right engines on you in your 310. :)

Your ability to correctly identify the failed engine promptly was excellent, and certainly the JPI goes a long way towards minimizing that human factor aspect.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top