Wow (For old airplane lovers!)

They played this video at a recent AOPA safety seminar. The spitfire was barely above stall speed while the Sopwith Camel was flying flat out. It's a great video.

As far as the Camel goes, I have been meaning to try to find some diagrams of the engine. The cylinders turn with the prop, so it's hard to imagine how they manage carburetion and ignition.

Thanks for posting this.

Doc
 
MBDiagMan said:
They played this video at a recent AOPA safety seminar. The spitfire was barely above stall speed while the Sopwith Camel was flying flat out. It's a great video.

As far as the Camel goes, I have been meaning to try to find some diagrams of the engine. The cylinders turn with the prop, so it's hard to imagine how they manage carburetion and ignition.

Thanks for posting this.

Doc
Click to expand...

Yeah -- you can see how nose up the Spitfire is! It's some formation flight, and I love that engine sound!
 
MBDiagMan said:
As far as the Camel goes, I have been meaning to try to find some diagrams of the engine. The cylinders turn with the prop, so it's hard to imagine how they manage carburetion and ignition.

Thanks for posting this.

Doc
Click to expand...

No diagrams, but here is some info on a Le Rhone Rotary engine. Note it is not a radial engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine
 
Keith and Joe,

Thanks for the ROTARY engine information. I have held quite an interest in engines all my life. This is one I've been curious about and in some quick perusing I now have a vague understanding.

The key to it is the bottom cylinder ports that replace the intake valve and allow incoming fuel air to be routed through the crankshaft assumedly to the crankcase and then through the lower cylinder ports. Then the exhaust valve works normally.

This also explains an inline aircraft engine that I saw at the Henry Ford Museum about 15 years ago and could never figure out. It was inline, liquid cooled, but only had one valve per cylinder. I'll bet that it worked the same way. This is also how the old Detroit Diesel engines worked with exhaust valves, and intake ports.

Thanks again. I look forward to getting more time and studying the information more deeply.

Doc
 
Loved:
A. the continul puffs of "smoke" (castor oil) from the rotary engine.
B. the very high AOA of the Spitfire trying to maintain position.
 
MBDiagMan said:
They played this video at a recent AOPA safety seminar. The spitfire was barely above stall speed while the Sopwith Camel was flying flat out. It's a great video.

As far as the Camel goes, I have been meaning to try to find some diagrams of the engine. The cylinders turn with the prop, so it's hard to imagine how they manage carburetion and ignition.

Thanks for posting this.

Doc
Click to expand...

Did that with a Lancaster and the B-1. The Lancaster was at full tilt, and the B-1 came in at high AOA with flaps and slats.
 
dmccormack said:
Anyone know if that was where it was routed on the originals? Or was that a mod to keep the airplane from getting all oily?
Click to expand...
Exhaust was timed when the cylinder was at the bottom of the cowl. They used castor oil and gas and the castor oil got all over everything including the pilot. That is why they wear a long white scarf to clean the oil off their goggles. Also kept the pilots real "regular" if you know what I mean. Carburation was primitive with a throttle and mixture that had to be set before taking off. Basically you had full throttle at all times and used the "coupe" button on the stick that cut off the ignition to control the engine when descending and landing. If you were in a long descent you had to turn the fuel off or raw gas and oil would collect in the cowling and set you on fire when you released the coupe button. Also you had to deal with huge gyroscopic forces. The Camel would turn on a dime to the left but very slow to the right. It took a real gutsy man to fly some of the early airplanes.
 
yakdriver said:
Exhaust was timed when the cylinder was at the bottom of the cowl. They used castor oil and gas and the castor oil got all over everything including the pilot. That is why they wear a long white scarf to clean the oil off their goggles. Also kept the pilots real "regular" if you know what I mean. Carburation was primitive with a throttle and mixture that had to be set before taking off. Basically you had full throttle at all times and used the "coupe" button on the stick that cut off the ignition to control the engine when descending and landing. If you were in a long descent you had to turn the fuel off or raw gas and oil would collect in the cowling and set you on fire when you released the coupe button. Also you had to deal with huge gyroscopic forces. The Camel would turn on a dime to the left but very slow to the right. It took a real gutsy man to fly some of the early airplanes.
Click to expand...


Wow -- amazing!

Good post -- thanks!
 
yakdriver said:
Exhaust was timed when the cylinder was at the bottom of the cowl. They used castor oil and gas and the castor oil got all over everything including the pilot. That is why they wear a long white scarf to clean the oil off their goggles. Also kept the pilots real "regular" if you know what I mean. Carburation was primitive with a throttle and mixture that had to be set before taking off. Basically you had full throttle at all times and used the "coupe" button on the stick that cut off the ignition to control the engine when descending and landing. If you were in a long descent you had to turn the fuel off or raw gas and oil would collect in the cowling and set you on fire when you released the coupe button. Also you had to deal with huge gyroscopic forces. The Camel would turn on a dime to the left but very slow to the right. It took a real gutsy man to fly some of the early airplanes.
Click to expand...

The laxative properties of castor oil were probably counterbalanced by the high pucker factor produced by flying those beasts.

Dave
 
The danger was when on the ground after the mission when the pucker factor went away.:wink2:
 
For those who can make the trip, it is well worth a Saturday or Sunday devoted to a trip to Old Rhinebeck Airdrome in Rhinebeck, NY. When the weather is VFR and the winds low, they fly the Spitfire with an original Gnome engine* as well as many other restored antique aircraft. The Rotarys make a unique sound, including the "Braaaap! (silence) "Braaaap" (silence) Braaap" as the pilot works the coupe button to modulate power.

NB call or google before you go, I believe the ORA airshows will be closing for the winter shortly.

* How much of the engine is original is anyone's guess!

-Skip
 
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Skip Miller said:
When the weather is VFR and the winds low, they fly the Spitfire with an original Gnome engine...
Click to expand...
I'd pay cash money to see that. The Gnome is, what, 1000 pounds lighter and 1000 HP less than the engine the Spitfire was designed for?:wink2:

Ron Wanttaja
 
Skip Miller said:
For those who can make the trip, it is well worth a Saturday or Sunday devoted to a trip to Old Rhinebeck Airdrome in Rhinebeck, NY. When the weather is VFR and the winds low, they fly the Spitfire with an original Gnome engine* as well as many other restored antique aircraft. The Rotarys make a unique sound, including the "Braaaap! (silence) "Braaaap" (silence) Braaap" as the pilot works the coupe button to modulate power.

NB call or google before you go, I believe the ORA airshows will be closing for the winter shortly.

* How much of the engine is original is anyone's guess!

-Skip
Click to expand...

Skip -- how realistic is it to plan a flight to the aerodrome? (The website gives the requirements, but first-hand expereince would be good)
 
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