Would you declare an emergency?

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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So - you're flying around, with an older man leaving a Class C airport area. The man starts to have a heart attack, and the nearest airport is the main Class C airport. A bunch of airplanes just started approaching the airport. You turn around and key the mic....what do you say?

Do you declare an emergency?

Lifeguard?

Just fly normally and advice ATC that you'll need ambulances?
 
you are not technically a "LifeGuard" flight.. turn around.. tell ATC you have a medical emergency on board.. request priority handling and an ambulance. Most Class C airports will have EMT with the fire station on the field.. or within a couple of blocks.
 
I wouldn't 7700, I would just announce passenger has possible MI, need priority handling and to get the ambulances rolling.
 
I would inform them of the situation, declare an emergency (to ensure priority), request an ambulance meet me at the runway, and return immediately to the airport.

The other airplanes can wait. No reason to let someone die because you're afraid of making an ordeal.
 
You turn around and key the mic....what do you say?
"Mayday, Mayday, Mayday. Approach, Tiger 22RL, medical emergency on board, returning to xxx airport, turning right/left to xxx heading, descending to xxxx, notify tower to have emergency medical team meet us on landing."

With a life at stake, this is a "Distress" situation as defined by the P/CG, so you bet your bippy I'll declare an emergency and use my PIC authority to obtain priority handling to expedite the landing at an airport where medical personnel can meet the plane on landing and get the EMS folks rolling to meet us.
 
Emergency. If you have to ask that question, you should declare.

If you use the E-word in a calm and collected voice, it will almost sound routine.

-Felix
 
That's a full blown emergency. Everyone else can wait..I would do the same for them.

Instantly start turning it around and go straight for the airport at maximum speed. Declare a medical emergency (pax heart attack in progress) and advise I'm inbound. Tell them to have the ambulance meet me ON the runway where I get it stopped.
 
I had an instructor that gave a BFR to an elderly gentleman at a rural grass strip. The guy died in the pattern on downwind.
 
If he's dead, do you declare an emergency?

I'll add my "yes, I would" to the first poster, and "yes, I would" to Ron's last question.

I'm not a doctor. He might be able to be revived with prompt medical attention.
 
I'll add my "yes, I would" to the first poster, and "yes, I would" to Ron's last question.

I'm not a doctor. He might be able to be revived with prompt medical attention.
Good point. Isn't there a significant time window during which one can be revived? Don't know what it is, but could it be enough to land and get a help?
 
People don't die in an airplane, at least not officially. It creates a paperwork hassle... or so I'm told.
 
"Mayday, Mayday, Mayday. Approach, Tiger 22RL, medical emergency on board, returning to xxx airport, turning right/left to xxx heading, descending to xxxx, notify tower to have emergency medical team meet us on landing."

With a life at stake, this is a "Distress" situation as defined by the P/CG, so you bet your bippy I'll declare an emergency and use my PIC authority to obtain priority handling to expedite the landing at an airport where medical personnel can meet the plane on landing and get the EMS folks rolling to meet us.

125% Right On. When in doubt declare.
 
So - you're flying around, with an older man leaving a Class C airport area. The man starts to have a heart attack, and the nearest airport is the main Class C airport. A bunch of airplanes just started approaching the airport. You turn around and key the mic....what do you say?

Do you declare an emergency?

Lifeguard?

Just fly normally and advice ATC that you'll need ambulances?

I declare an emergency, tell them what's happened, what I need from them, and what runway I'm landing on.
 
if they die in the airplane, darn right ill declare an emergency. why would you want to spend any extra time than necessary with a newly dead guy in the other seat?
 
Yes on both counts. Declare an emergency. I'm not a medical professional and not capable of making a decision if one is deceased. So, my decision is to declare and get that aircraft back on the deck as fast and safe as conceivably possible.

91.3 rules.
 
Do you pick a different airport if ARFF is unavailable?

Columbus OH (Ohio State University) [OSU]: November NOTAM #2 Service(s) airport firefighting unavailable / airport closed to air carrier MORE THAN 30 passenger(s)
I think that's a "depends on" question. In Columbus there's a bigger airport like Port Columbus which would have ARFF. Or, if you are at a distance from some airport which doesn't have ARFF, ATC may be able to get the local EMS people there before you get there.
 
Do you pick a different airport if ARFF is unavailable?

Columbus OH (Ohio State University) [OSU]: November NOTAM #2 Service(s) airport firefighting unavailable / airport closed to air carrier MORE THAN 30 passenger(s)
Depends how fast they can get the equipment out there.

My local airport has no CFR services. However, if you asked ATC, I bet they would have university police and fire out there in under 10 minutes.

-Felix
 
People don't die in an airplane, at least not officially. It creates a paperwork hassle... or so I'm told.

Yep, Aircraft Commanders or "Captains" as you civilian folk call 'em, can declare someone dead. But if they want to preserve thier sanity they will leave that task to the medical personnel on the ground when they land...after declaring the emergency. This one time, at AWACS camp, there was a crewmember suffering chest pains. The AC elected to divert to Langley AFB, dropped off the ailing crewmember, and proceded to RTB to Tinker.
 
People don't die in an airplane, at least not officially. It creates a paperwork hassle... or so I'm told.

Ypu're right. People don't "Die" on airplanes, they become "unresponsive". They aren't dead until a doctor or other qualified medical pronounces it after landing. It does save the crew a bunch of paperwork.
 
If he's dead, do you declare an emergency?

I would. Slumping over and non responsive might be mostly dead or all dead. I will continue to assume he's slightly alive until such time as it's blatantly obvious that he's completely dead or until Miracle Max can have a go at him.


Ish. There are too many dead people this year. I am going to do whatever is necessary to keep the body count down.
 
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Ahhh, but what about a dead person who wakes up again? Now, first, it didn't happen to me. But I flew with the pilot to whom it DID happen, and thereon hangs a tale…

A long time ago I worked as a charter pilot for an outfit called Kentucky Flying Service (since sold to others and renamed Triangle Flying Service, which eventually went under and their space was taken by Louisville Aviation) in Louisville (that's "Lou-a-vul", not "Lewie-vil") Kentucky. We were pretty cheap, and therefore popular with folks that wanted people or stuff flown, and didn't much care about amenities like coffee bars, leather seats, and sexy paint jobs, and didn't squawk much if the Janitrol heaters were a bit shaky -- that's what coats are for. For that reason, the local undertakers all had KFS's number scribbled on the wall by their phones. When someone died somewhere else and the family wanted the funeral in the River City, we got the call.

Now, undertakers seem to be pretty cost-conscious, and they do not like spending the extra bucks for the big twin when they can charter a C-182 for half the price (“Ain’t nobody we care about gonna get kilt if th’ engine quits.”). Further, they are not about to spend the bucks to transport any more weight or bulk than they have to, and there’s no way they’re paying for either a shipping crate or the return of a loaner. So they do not ship the body in a coffin, casket, or any other container. When you pick up a body, you pick up a body - that's it. We had our own body rack built that clipped into the seat tracks on a 182 when the right and rear seats were removed. And the shipping funeral director won't even give you the sheet he used to wrap the body, so you'd better have one of your own unless you like looking at some naked stiff next to lying next to you all the way home. Fortunately, they do understand that charter pilots simply will NOT handle the body, so I never had any trouble when I pointed them at the airplane, handed them the sheet, and told them I had to go get a weather briefing - please have the body on board by the time I get back. I'd get back in the plane with some six-foot sheet-wrapped lump strapped to the rack (feet forward, head aft), and head for home, where I would show the receiving undertakers the body, and announce the urgent need for a pit stop - please have the body out of the plane by the time I get back.

Now, one time, one of our pilots was sent out to the west end of the state to pick up some poor guy who fell out of a speedboat and drowned while on vacation. The family wanted the body back in Louisville as fast as it could be moved, and we got the call. What you may not know is that a lot of rules about corpse handling and processing change when the body is shipped across state lines. Federal law requires that bodies be "prepped" by embalming and such, before you send one from one state to another. However, intrastate body shipment has no such requirements - it's state laws only, and in Kentucky, you could send 'em "as is." And since this was intrastate, they decided not to spend the extra bucks on any of that preparation. Further, Willie apparently didn't make the strap-down procedure all that clear, and they only got the front (legs) strap on before they laid the sheet over him. Willie chose not to look under the sheet to check for security - smooth day, no turbulence, it wasn't going anywhere…

Well, we pilots know about trapped gases, and altitude effects and all that. And most folks know that dead meat tends to undergo some biochemical changes due to the bacteria and such still very much alive in the body unless cleaned out (see "preparation," above). About the time Willie got through 4000 feet or so, the pressure changes worked enough that some of those gases started expanding and moving into different parts of the body, and the body started to jackknife. You may remember that this one was strapped around the thighs, but not the chest, and the net effect was that the body began to perform a sit-up. Poor Willie was sitting there, cruising along, minding his own business, when he heard the rustle of the sheet falling away, and looked over to see the corpse sitting bolt-upright beside him. I understand Evansville Approach heard him even though he forgot to key the mike. Utterly convinced that the body was coming back to life, he declared an emergency, landed, and was met by the paramedics, who upon discovering the situation, laughed long and hard - insult added to injury.

Willie returned to KFS, delivered the now-completely-strapped down corpse, and informed the Chief Pilot that he was refusing to accept any future body runs. Me, I just made sure that both straps were wrapped AROUND the sheet - not under it. Hey, it's flying time, it's money in my pocket, and in that business, passengers who don't smoke, don't touch things, and don't complain are a pleasure.
 
if they die in the airplane, darn right ill declare an emergency. why would you want to spend any extra time than necessary with a newly dead guy in the other seat?

Extra solo time in the logbook?
 
Columbus OH (Ohio State University) [OSU]: November NOTAM #2 Service(s) airport firefighting unavailable / airport closed to air carrier MORE THAN 30 passenger(s)

Is that current?
I was thinking of flying out of there today?
The airplane just came out of maintenance and I wanted to see how it felt.
 
So - you're flying around, with an older man leaving a Class C airport area. The man starts to have a heart attack, and the nearest airport is the main Class C airport. A bunch of airplanes just started approaching the airport. You turn around and key the mic....what do you say?

Do you declare an emergency?

Lifeguard?

Just fly normally and advice ATC that you'll need ambulances?

"Mayday Mayday Mayday, N234YZ inbound KLGB with a man having apparantly having a heart attack, have an ambulance meet me on a ramp." Put the throttle to the wall and feed the guy a couple of aspirin from the first aid kit. Time and aspirin are everything.
 
People don't die in an airplane, at least not officially. It creates a paperwork hassle... or so I'm told.

Not really, the issue is, most of the time there isn't anyone on the airplane with the authority to declare them dead, and they aren't "dead" until it's been called by an official which is why if you start CPR, you continue until relieved or death is declared.
 
But I flew with the pilot to whom it DID happen, and thereon hangs a tale…

Nope. Not happening. No way. No how. Forgetaboutit. They have to start out alive and have an extremely good chance of remaining that way. There isn't enough money or logbook time in the world to justify carrying one of those anywhere in the plane with me.
I have way way WAY too active of an imagination to be hauling things like that around. Just a little thump (real or imagined) in the back and we'd be looking down the barrel of a NTSB report. I'm quite certain a plane can't be flown anywhere near reasonably, much less safely, with the pilot three quarters out the left window while standing on top of the pilot seat screaming hysterically.
 
They have to start out alive and have an extremely good chance of remaining that way.
How about this one? I've carried someone who was on his way to becoming an organ donor. He was brain dead but being kept on life support to keep his organs viable. Alive or dead? Would you count him as a "soul on board"?
 
How about this one? I've carried someone who was on his way to becoming an organ donor. He was brain dead but being kept on life support to keep his organs viable. Alive or dead? Would you count him as a "soul on board"?

No death certificate, not dead.
 
Nick, dumb thread rescued by Ron's wonderful story. What part of an acute life-threatening illness is not an emergency? Would you walk through the front door of the hospital and tell the receptionist you were having an infarction, or would you go to the emergency room?
 
Nick, dumb thread rescued by Ron's wonderful story. What part of an acute life-threatening illness is not an emergency? Would you walk through the front door of the hospital and tell the receptionist you were having an infarction, or would you go to the emergency room?

Is this a rhetorical question? I've not gone to the emergency room twice when I probably should have. One of the situations was a bit closer than I thought at the time. Within 2mm of severing the superficial temporal artery. Didn't know that until I was stitched up.

I still wouldn't declare the e-word in Nick's scenario. Although I would caveat with my call up that if I don't get priority handling, I will declare.
 
Is this a rhetorical question? I've not gone to the emergency room twice when I probably should have. One of the situations was a bit closer than I thought at the time. Within 2mm of severing the superficial temporal artery. Didn't know that until I was stitched up.

I still wouldn't declare the e-word in Nick's scenario. Although I would caveat with my call up that if I don't get priority handling, I will declare.


We must respectfully disagree. Guy potentially dies under my watch I'm gong to make damn good and certain I've done everything possible to save him. His life is a lot more important than my convenience.
 
I still wouldn't declare the e-word in Nick's scenario. Although I would caveat with my call up that if I don't get priority handling, I will declare.

His family's attorney would have a field day with you.. "You have a man dying in your plane and you didn't think declaring an emergency was a necessity????"
 
His family's attorney would have a field day with you.. "You have a man dying in your plane and you didn't think declaring an emergency was a necessity????"

Declaring an emergency does not make the plane go faster.
 
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