Would you buy...

Jay Honeck

Jay Honeck

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
11,571
Location
Ingleside, TX
Display Name
Display name:
Jay Honeck
...a plane with an engine from a wreck that was damaged with <20 hours on it since new that was rebuilt using a factory new crankshaft, bearings, and crankcase?

The original parts from the wreck include the camshaft and cylinders, all with less than 20 hours since new when the wreck occurred.

The engine, having been bought for scrap, has no data plate and no original logbook. It's now been run for over 100 hours, without issue. Presumably it is well broken in.

The engine rebuilder has 50 years of experience building engines, and is well known in the EAA world. Would you buy a plane with this engine, for the right price?
 
Jay Honeck said:
...a plane with an engine from a wreck that was damaged with <20 hours on it since new that was rebuilt using a factory new crankshaft, bearings, and crankcase?

The original parts from the wreck include the camshaft and cylinders, all with less than 20 hours since new when the wreck occurred.

The engine, having been bought for scrap, has no data plate and no original logbook. It's now been run for over 100 hours, without issue. Presumably it is well broken in.

The engine rebuilder has 50 years of experience building engines, and is well known in the EAA world. Would you buy a plane with this engine, for the right price?
Click to expand...

What was the damage? Sudden stoppage? If so, make sure the gears in the accessory case were NDT'd. Same for the mag's. Cylinders don't bother me, nor does the cam.
 
Maybe. Depends on engine.

I'm not worried about cam, cylinders, crank, or case since the latter two were replaced and a sudden stoppage wouldn't hurt a cam or cylinders (et.al.). All other moving bits better be new.
 
BTW: The aircraft seller (who is also the engine builder) is valuing the engine (as I would) at essentially the cost of the crankshaft and case in figuring the cost of the airplane.
 
Yes, as long as the plane is priced accordingly. The engine would not bother me in the least. 100 hours is telling. :yes:
 
Dean V said:
How would they oversee that? I was thinking the insurance company maybe had the data plate removed, but if the engine is in an experimental I don't know why the bulder could not make his own data plate with the engine data and some kind of distinct serial number. With some artestry for a data plate and a good logbook, I am not sure the engine has much depreciation.

I would also want a very detailed listing of the parts in the engine since there is no serial number or manufacture date to ref an AD.

Otherwise, I would fly behind it.

Edit:

http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/service-instructions/pdfs/SI1304J.pdf

http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/SIL00-9A.pdf
Click to expand...

Well, yeah, it has his documentation since the rebuild. Just nothing "official Lycoming".
 
Jay Honeck said:
BTW: The aircraft seller (who is also the engine builder) is valuing the engine (as I would) at essentially the cost of the crankshaft and case in figuring the cost of the airplane.
Click to expand...

Which means exactly what when it shells a mag drive gear and lunches the engine?
 
Clark1961 said:
Which means exactly what when it shells a mag drive gear and lunches the engine?
Click to expand...

He claims to have miked every part that he didn't replace, and they checked out at new specs. I don't know about the mag drive gear. He may have replaced it with new.
 
Jay Honeck said:
He claims to have miked every part that he didn't replace, and they checked out at new specs. I don't know about the mag drive gear. He may have replaced it with new.
Click to expand...


Do you want to have this conversation with the guy you're going to sell it to?
 
bartmc said:
Do you want to have this conversation with the guy you're going to sell it to?
Click to expand...

I would know more details, if I was the seller. :D

I'm considering this airplane. I've got some more questions that need answering, but I was just wondering what others thought of such an engine.

Personally, I've flown for 11 years behind a field overhauled engine that was built in much the same way as this engine, minus the new crankshaft.

Mine was overhauled from an engine that was making metal, not involved in a wreck. We went with all new cylinders, but everything else was reused, and it's been perfect, so I am not overly concerned, just curious what y'all would do.
 
Jay Honeck said:
He claims to have miked every part that he didn't replace, and they checked out at new specs. I don't know about the mag drive gear. He may have replaced it with new.
Click to expand...

And measuring with a micrometer detects latent cracks how?
 
Like other posted, depends on the engine. If a good mechanic said it was Ok after inspecting it, I'd be fine with it.
 
Skylane81E said:
If I trusted the rebuilder I would jump at it for an EAB,
Click to expand...

Therein lies the rub, no? How much trust do we put in something like this?

I'm having a hard time with it. The builder has a solid reputation, but he's no spring chicken and even experts get old and make mistakes. Of course, young guys do, too.
 
Last edited:
Jay Honeck said:
Therein lies the rub, no? How much trust do we put in a something like this?

I'm having a hard time with it. The builder has a solid reputation, but he's no spring chicken and even experts get old and make mistakes. Of course, young guys do, too.
Click to expand...

Well if the price is right you could pull the accessory case off and have the gears NDTed for a fairly small out of pocket if you did the R&R yourself.
 
Tell you what, can you get your hands on the log entry for the engine repair?
 
Jay Honeck said:
...a plane with an engine from a wreck that was damaged with <20 hours on it since new that was rebuilt using a factory new crankshaft, bearings, and crankcase?
Click to expand...


I'd ask the 64 thousand dollar question: Was this engine the cause of the wreck?:D
 
Would you buy an airplane with a factory re-man engine? You have no idea where it's been.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Would you buy an airplane with a factory re-man engine? You have no idea where it's been.
Click to expand...

I know. Everything WRT an aircraft engine comes down to trust.

I watched my engine built, one piece at a time, over a period of weeks. It was incredibly educational, and also taught me that there is nothing terribly difficult to the assembly job. I've flown with my family behind that engine for 11 trouble free years, and I believe that this builder has created such an engine.

Better, really, given the new parts used.

Still, there's that gnawing doubt... I wonder if the doubt would go away after another 100 hours? Or 400?
 
Jay Honeck said:
It's 1500 miles away. I've got an RV expert doing the prebuy work for me.
Click to expand...

Have the expert scan it or make pictures with his smartphone and send 'em to you.

The gears in the accessory case and the one on the back of the crank are the ones that'll bite you in the arse, given that the crank and case are new.
 
kyleb said:
Have the expert scan it or make pictures with his smartphone and send 'em to you.

The gears in the accessory case and the one on the back of the crank are the ones that'll bite you in the arse, given that the crank and case are new.
Click to expand...

The gears were not replaced.

For this, and a host of other reasons, the RV-8A we were hoping to buy did not pass the prebuy inspection, and our search continues.
 
Jay Honeck said:
...a plane with an engine from a wreck that was damaged with <20 hours on it since new that was rebuilt using a factory new crankshaft, bearings, and crankcase?

The original parts from the wreck include the camshaft and cylinders, all with less than 20 hours since new when the wreck occurred.

The engine, having been bought for scrap, has no data plate and no original logbook. It's now been run for over 100 hours, without issue. Presumably it is well broken in.

The engine rebuilder has 50 years of experience building engines, and is well known in the EAA world. Would you buy a plane with this engine, for the right price?
Click to expand...

Early on when building my Zenith, in fact I stopped at the advertisers house on the way back from picking up my kit 801 to look at a "potentail" 0-360 Lyc.... After looking over the decently priced , used motor, the owner then told me it was from a wreck,, and a fatal one at that.... There was NO way I could justify that and I am sure Karma would have reared its ugly head...:hairraise::yikes::eek: YMMV...
 
Keep looking Jay. The right one is out there looking for you.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I watched my engine built, one piece at a time, over a period of weeks. It was incredibly educational, and also taught me that there is nothing terribly difficult to the assembly job.
Click to expand...

I've been observing and lending a hand as needed on a Duke rebuild...both engines. It's really amazing how relatively simple they really are...at least the core engine.

Good luck with your search.
 
Where does a homebuilder find an engine? There are basically four sources.

New / reman from the factory. It does happen sometimes. This is the guy with the full IFR panel, money is no object paint, leather interior, and an asking price to match.

From a wreck. Often a tear down / rebuild is done. A lot depends on the individual who does the overhaul.

From a derelict being parted out. This is the "low time" engine. Low time because it has been sitting / corroding out on the ramp for years before the airframe was finally cut up for scrap and the "good stuff" was sold. Sometimes a tear down / rebuild is done.

From a run out freight dog twin being parted out. High total time (this number won't be in the ad), but fresh overhaul. A lot depends on the individual who does the overhaul.

If you are looking at homebuilt, don't be surprised if the engine was salvaged.
 
There's a guy in MN running an airboat engine in his RV. Basically the same engine that's in a Skyhawk.

And, if rebuilt correctly, there's nothing wrong with that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top