Worst controller ever?

[Art Rose]

Gotta say, I don’t think pilot had any clue what he was doing. And he was a bit arrogant on top of that. Only thing I saw the controller do wrong is not give vectors first. But yet again the pilot flying IFR should have at least known the VOR frequency, at Most already had it tuned in.

We're forgetting something very important. And it's become very common in today's society.

Customer relations, specifically, lack of respect for the Customer.

Granted, there was poor attitude from both parties in this obviously edited discussion, but we need to remember......... the Controller is there to serve the Pilot, not the other way around. Whether there was a declared Emergency, or not, the Controllers very purpose is to serve the Customer.

The Customer is always right, and in this case, disputes should be settled on the ground. I suspect that if that rule were enforced, in this case, there would be no need for a ground discussion, because there would likely not have been that particular Controller performing that particular job.

No matter how rude, condescending, or negative, the Customer is always right. The Controller should, at the very least be counseled, or reprimanded, and if this is a common behavior, should be fired.

Around here, similar behavior has become common towards VFR traffic, and the very reason I rarely use their, so called, services.

I believe in spin training for every pilot, and I believe that before you become a Controller, you must first become a Pilot.

 

[kayoh190]

^^^ with all due respect Art, this ain't Applebee's. While it's true the controller is there because of the pilot, when it comes to keeping our airspace safe, the 'customer' is *not* always right.

 

[Ravioli]

Being "right" isn't always going to keep you safe. Do you wanna be the pilot in the ambulance muttering, "I was right"?
"

 

[sarangan]

I am wondering why inadvertent IMC while under IFR is an emergency. If the pilot found the airplane in an unexpected bank. just straighten up and fly. This shouldn't really be a big deal for an IFR pilot, unless there was a gyro failure.

 

[Timbeck2]

Being "right" isn't always going to keep you safe. Do you wanna be the pilot in the ambulance muttering, "I was right"?
"

Mama always told me that there's right and then there's dead right.

 

[TommyG]

We're forgetting something very important. And it's become very common in today's society.

Customer relations, specifically, lack of respect for the Customer.

Granted, there was poor attitude from both parties in this obviously edited discussion, but we need to remember......... the Controller is there to serve the Pilot, not the other way around. Whether there was a declared Emergency, or not, the Controllers very purpose is to serve the Customer.

The Customer is always right, and in this case, disputes should be settled on the ground. I suspect that if that rule were enforced, in this case, there would be no need for a ground discussion, because there would likely not have been that particular Controller performing that particular job.

No matter how rude, condescending, or negative, the Customer is always right. The Controller should, at the very least be counseled, or reprimanded, and if this is a common behavior, should be fired.

Around here, similar behavior has become common towards VFR traffic, and the very reason I rarely use their, so called, services.

I believe in spin training for every pilot, and I believe that before you become a Controller, you must first become a Pilot.

sorry, I don’t see ATC as a customer service industry. They aren’t wearing big bright name takes saying welcome tho the airport.

 

[Justin M]

Being "right" isn't always going to keep you safe. Do you wanna be the pilot in the ambulance muttering, "I was right"?
"

I always say (especially on the motorcycle) that being right is not the same as being not dead.

 

[Tantalum]

Granted, there was poor attitude from both parties in this obviously edited discussion, but we need to remember......... the Controller is there to serve the Pilot, not the other way around. Whether there was a declared Emergency, or not, the Controllers very purpose is to serve the Customer.

I still don't know what the controller did wrong. He can't see what the pilot sees.. he gave vectors for a visual, asked for the nature of the emergency. The pilot seemed stressed out because of turbulence and because he apparently can't hand fly in IMC.. so took that frustration out with the controller because the controller didn't reply back "calm down, everything will be okay, you're a good pilot and you work hard and everyone likes you. Are you nose down? Level the wing and the ball, easy inputs, gently pull up.. okay good" <- like, that's not at all his (or her) job

I wonder if this is the same pilot who later got annoyed that a "friend" let him borrow his plane and is upset that he's expected to not just abandon the plane in situ

-yes, being courteous is important.. but "X is always right" mindset I never understood that. Decorum should be expected from both parties.

 

[N1120A]

Eh, I'm leaning toward the controller being the issue here. He was rude and preoccupied with things other than giving the pilot what he asked for in the emergency. There was pretty substantial concern in the pilot's voice and he should have picked that up.

I don't know... I'd be surprised if the Youtube channel that edited the audio and assembled the video would have left out some juicy bits of human conflict in the spirit of moving the plot along. Seems at odds with the nature of social media/Youtube.

That channel generally doesn't edit out pertinent comms.

Yeah, makes sense. I’d still like to hear the whole thing though. Do you know who and what VAS Aviation is?

He's a young Spanish pilot who posts lots of interesting ATC clips.

No mechanical problem. Only light turbulence. What exactly was the emergency? Was this a VFR-only pilot who got himself in over his head? In the absence of that information, the controller's actions don't seem too bad, with the exception of the vectors after the initial emergency declaration.

Apparently none of the above

The METAR was VFR.

Ever see the weather in Hawaii?

I'm curious why he didn't just do the ILS.

Probably just wanted a vector down to see the airport. Simplify.

 

[frfly172]

Report would have read pilot error, failed to follow instructions.

 

[Timbeck2]

sorry, I don’t see ATC as a customer service industry. They aren’t wearing big bright name takes saying welcome tho the airport.

Usually, I wear jeans and a button down. Shorts and tee shirt on the weekends. If controllers gave every pilot what they wanted I doubt very seriously they'd want what they got for very long. One has to remember that the pilot who wants something isn't the only guy in the sky. If two pilots want the same thing in the same area and they prang into one another, they'll still blame the controller. To me the controller gave that pilot everything he wanted except direct to a fix I can't remember. He had to have a reason but didn't explain it to the pilot. He is required to give a reason if time permits. Now none of us were there, we don't know what other tasks the controller was doing. Perhaps when you guys said he didn't answer the pilot right away he was talking to another controller trying to get the pilot direct to that fix. Nobody knows.

 

[PaulS]

Usually, I wear jeans and a button down. Shorts and tee shirt on the weekends. If controllers gave every pilot what they wanted I doubt very seriously they'd want what they got for very long. One has to remember that the pilot who wants something isn't the only guy in the sky. If two pilots want the same thing in the same area and they prang into one another, they'll still blame the controller. To me the controller gave that pilot everything he wanted except direct to a fix I can't remember. He had to have a reason but didn't explain it to the pilot. He is required to give a reason if time permits. Now none of us were there, we don't know what other tasks the controller was doing. Perhaps when you guys said he didn't answer the pilot right away he was talking to another controller trying to get the pilot direct to that fix. Nobody knows.

So my take on this is the controller screwed up by giving him a VOR to turn to instead of a vector, that was quickly fixed with a radio call by the pilot. No big deal.

Then the controller was trying to figure out if he had a dangerous weather situation in his area, which is fine, but the pilot was obviously not ready to answer the question and should have said standby.

The pilot screwed up by reporting the field in sight when he knew he would lose it again. He should have just shut up until he was sure he could make the visual. The controller lost his cool, this was an inappropriate moment to do that and unprofessional in my opinion. I'm thinking these two had a run in or two before.

But, I can't see any reason for a pilot to argue or get testy with a controller, the pilot is in a no win situation regardless of whether he is right or wrong. In an emergency, ignore the tone, ask for what you need until you get it or get an alternative that will work, also remember you don't need permission once you declare, but it is good for everyone to be on the same page. At least that's the way I see it.

 

[JonH]

I read the comments here and on youtube before watching the video and I was expecting a lot worse!

 

[Clip4]

Eh, I'm leaning toward the controller being the issue here. He was rude and preoccupied with things other than giving the pilot what he asked for in the emergency. There was pretty substantial concern in the pilot's voice and he should have picked that up.



That channel generally doesn't edit out pertinent comms.



He's a young Spanish pilot who posts lots of interesting ATC clips.



Apparently none of the above



Ever see the weather in Hawaii?



Probably just wanted a vector down to see the airport. Simplify.

Yes, mostly VFR.

 

[Adam Weiss]

I was just in Hawaii at Christmas.
It was mostly VFR, but there were layers of clouds for sure.
In 80% of the sky, there was nothing but blue, but I flew down to minimums at Lanai.
And that helicopter went down the day before I flew over to the Napaili coast.

In short...I can easily see how he was in and out of clouds.

 

[Tantalum]

I was just in Hawaii at Christmas.
It was mostly VFR, but there were layers of clouds for sure.
In 80% of the sky, there was nothing but blue, but I flew down to minimums at Lanai.
And that helicopter went down the day before I flew over to the Napaili coast.

In short...I can easily see how he was in and out of clouds.

I was under the impression though that if you tell the controller you have visual with the airport that means then that you can fly there visually without them holding your hand or giving vectors

The pilot's response was flaky. Really what he needed to do was just fly the ILS.. and/or be more proficient/vigilant with the weather

 

[N1120A]

Yes, mostly VFR.

That's relative. Also, you tend to want to fly higher due to the overwater time.

 

[smv]

I have a couple hundred hours flying around the islands.

Certainly some challenging weather conditios there. Can go from CAVU to LIFR pretty quick. Then there are the days that the airport is closed because waves are crashing across the runway (at PLHU in particular).

Nothing, however, can prepare the Really Big Island pilot for listening to 127.05 around the Pali coast.