Wireless Router Suggestion

poadeleted21

poadeleted21

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
12,332
So in a fit of desperation, I went to wal-mart and purchased a Belkin wireless router, it's caused more frustration than good, needs to be reset daily and would be better suited for a recycling facility somewhere.

I had a WRT54G that I thought was bad, but turns out it was just me using the wrong power cord, after I purchased the Belking, I installed the WRT54G at the hangar and it still works great.

I'm assuming the WRT54GL is a solid replacement for the old WRT54G but if anybody thinks I should look at something different, I'm all ears.

Just vanilla networking, cell phones, iPad, couple of laptops. Don't do a ton of file sharing but I do have a share on the home server for the wife and I to store/share files.
 
The GL is just a variant of the G. In my experience they've been almost bulletproof, and for your purposes I would recommend it in a heartbeat.

If you think you would need Wireless N speeds you could look at the Cisco E series, but I don't think you need to worry about it unless your file transfers to the home server are large and time dependent.
 
It depends on how much money you want to spend. Since I am rich enough to fly an airplane, I figured it made no sense to buy junk in Best Buy, and I split the function to router and wireless. This allows one to spend even more money on quality gear than buying any so-called "wireless router".

For the router, I use an x86 router from MSI with wireless disabled, and I run a stock Fedora Linux on it. It works great, very reliable, very good security support, allows me to run pretty much everything latest on it, and I can customize it precisely, especially filtering and accounting as needed for a router. That thing was about $300 or so. These days, I heard this MSI box is pretty decent:
http://www.logicsupply.com/products/ms_9a25

For the wireless, I bought a standalone (aka "controllerless") Cisco AP, which runs real IOS and offers an excellent RF side. Like reviewers say, "the speed and range of that thing are unreal".
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833120658
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833997077 (PS)

-- Pete

P.S. WRT54GL was great for its time, but now it is not fast enough to drive my cable modem. It can only switch something like 30,000 packets per second due to its wimpy CPU. Adding filtering makes its performance to nosedive even further. It's completely obsolete, basically.

P.P.S. Since most x86 routers only have 2 ports, you probably want a VLAN-capable switch (if, for instance, you want to separate a "pink" network for TiVO and XBox ghetto). This little bad boy worked great for me:
http://www.amazon.com/8PORT-200-08-SLM2008T-NA-Gigabit-Switch/dp/B004OA721C/ref=pd_cp_e_3
 
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I got an E1000 to replace my WRT54GL. Works fine. It was giving me fits on Wireless N, until I upgraded the laptop firmware.
 
The "L" in the name was because early versions of the WRT54G ran Linux and were popular for re-flashing with custom feature-rich versions of Linux firmware.

Around version 4 or 5, Linksys/Cisco switched to a different embedded platform and enthusiasts of the alternate firmware clamored for the old versions back.

Linksys tacked $10 into the price and brought back the "GL" version.

As far as tech goes, agreed that the GL is pretty old tech. You really want dual-band "N" with MIMO antenna arrays for "state-of-the-art" today.

The next standard currently being ratified and just around the corner. 802.11ac

802.11ac is in official Draft status now and will be the first real Gigabit home wireless standard.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11
 
I've been using an Apple Airport Extreme. Have yet to reset it for cause. Had linksys and Belkin in the past.

It has a guest network too. And you can put certain USB printers or external hdd's on it as network printers or drives independently of an individual computer.
 
I have two Linksys WRT54G's running DD:WRT. These have been rock solid since the day I plugged them in. I did buy a Buffalo Air Station combo modem/router because it has DD:WRT but have not taken the time to put it online. The Linksys with DD:WRT have just been so solid.
With DD:WRT, I have better range. It has lots of options I don't use nor need. I think it was Jesse that first mentioned this several years ago.
 
I have an Asus RT-N16 running DD-WRT. Rock solid. Lots of features.
 
After disappointment with various other wireless solutions, I dug out a WRT54G that was sitting in the bottom of the 'obsolete technology' bin. Loaded the most recent firmware, configured everything and haven't paid the wireless part of the network any attention since.

Get another WRT54G :wink2:
 
weilke said:
After disappointment with various other wireless solutions, I dug out a WRT54G that was sitting in the bottom of the 'obsolete technology' bin. Loaded the most recent firmware, configured everything and haven't paid the wireless part of the network any attention since.

Get another WRT54G :wink2:
Click to expand...

That's what I'm thinking, I never had a complaint (speed or otherwise) with it. I guess I'm too dumb to know what I'm missing with the non-obsolete technology.
 
weilke said:
After disappointment with various other wireless solutions, I dug out a WRT54G that was sitting in the bottom of the 'obsolete technology' bin. Loaded the most recent firmware, configured everything and haven't paid the wireless part of the network any attention since.

Get another WRT54G :wink2:
Click to expand...

The newer ones are not the same as the older ones. There are mulitple versions of hadware & firmware.

My Asus replaced a WRT54G that would randomly either not connect to hardware or slow down a lot. Rebooting usually fixed the problem. I finally gave up after getting an iPad & found that the WRT54 wouldn't connect properly, leading to 5-10 second page loads. No problems at all with the Asus.

I do have a WRT54G with DD-WRT operating as a VPN node - it does pretty well, but is lightly loaded.

Ever since Linksys was bought by Cisco, I've found the quality to be lower. YMMV
 
I've been using a WRT54G for several years now, running Tomato firmware. When it started getting flaky - reboots at random, other weird stuff -- I got a WRT54GL to replace it. As it turns out, the problem was Tomato; the new hardware acted precisely the same as the old. I switched to DD-WRT and it's been chugging right along with zero problems. I'll probably use the old router, loaded with DD-WRT, to link the TV, Blu-Ray player and whatever else I may add in the family room to the network. It's not convenient to run cable there.
 
Even thought it's quite old I use the WRT54G router with Tomato firmware. I used to use DD-WRT but it had way too many options for what I wanted to do. Tomato is much more easier and gives you more options than the standard Linksys firmware.
 
Ironically I have the Asadoorian and Pesce WRT54G book, but not the actual WRT54.
 
ainokea said:
Even thought it's quite old I use the WRT54G router with Tomato firmware. I used to use DD-WRT but it had way too many options for what I wanted to do. Tomato is much more easier and gives you more options than the standard Linksys firmware.
Click to expand...
One feature of Tomato I did not like was the spontaneous, random reboots. I had that issue with two separate routers, different hardware models, different power supplies. No syslog messages, no warning, just a reboot a couple of times a week. Even my Windows boxes were more reliable. DD-WRT does not act up in any way, and it lets me watch things via SNMP. I know some people must be having good luck with Tomato, but it sure didn't work for me, even after I quit using QOS and any other more advanced features.

I wasn't thrilled about making the switch, but it was actually pretty easy. As for throughput with the WRT54G, while I have not measured the packets per second it will happily handle up to about 26Mbps on the WAN side with no complaints. I use a couple of other switches to keep everything I can off the router, though. Of the four ports I have one going to the cable modem and the other to an 8-port GigE switch for the server, IP phones, and non-WiFi household computers. The WRT54G does handle all the WiFi in the house.
 
Dependin on the Belkin, you have may have two choices. The 600+ (max.) is much happier with the firmware update from their website. I have it and it has run a few months unattended after the new firmware. The 300 (play?) takes ddwrt after a 30-30-30 reset, with no other voodoo.

Stupid names, and dirt cheap because their default firmware is garbage. :wink2:
 
aparrently my router is on the "aint going to bother with it" list for ddwrt firmware is the freshest and is still crap.
 
The new Lynksys dual band N stuff is c**p. I have had several models and the last one, I swapped out twice. They stop responding consistently and need to be rebooted (sometimes several times an hour). Google it. I am not the only one to experience this. I have been a Cisco fanboy for years, but I am running Netgear at home now.
 
I have WRT54Gs sprayed throughout my house.
 
WRT54G's & GL's, pre-loaded with DD-WRT, typically sell on eBay for ~$45 delivered. I
suggest avoiding the v8 hardware as the antennas are molded-in (not removeable).
 
silver-eagle said:
Why? Wouldn't one be enough or is your estate that big?
How are you doing this? Are they access points or do they each have a direct connection?
Click to expand...
Mostly because pretty much every possible square inch of the house and basement that could be finished is so running ethernet everywhere isn't that simple. So I just have a WRT54G in basically every room acting as an ethernet bridge. It sounds sketchy but it actually works pretty well.

One of these days I'll figure out a good route to run ethernet to every room...until then this works mostly.
 
How big is your house, for heaven's sake? One WRT54G tucked up under the joists in the basement covers my entire house, and it's not a tarpaper shack. The only thing it won't do well is stream 1080 HD video to the Wifi Blu-Ray player. DVD quality video isn't a problem, but it can't hack video from the camcorder.
 
DaleB said:
How big is your house, for heaven's sake? One WRT54G tucked up under the joists in the basement covers my entire house, and it's not a tarpaper shack. The only thing it won't do well is stream 1080 HD video to the Wifi Blu-Ray player. DVD quality video isn't a problem, but it can't hack video from the camcorder.
Click to expand...
Not big at all. But I have quite a few things that aren't equipped with wireless and have ethernet only. So I plug those into the various WRT54G boxes.
 
Ah, OK. Gotcha. That's why you said you're using them as Ethernet bridges... maybe I should read before responding. :)
 
Is it possible, with one of the alternate OS loads, to make a WRT54 or something like it connect up to another WiFi signal, including WEP auth, and share out the signal.

Not describing this well - hangar has no WiFi in range, not practical to try to get broadband installed. There is a WiFi signal in range of front of hangar (across the ramp); Could we have external antenna to a bridge / router there, and then have the Internet signal available in the hangar?
 
SCCutler said:
Is it possible, with one of the alternate OS loads, to make a WRT54 or something like it connect up to another WiFi signal, including WEP auth, and share out the signal.

Not describing this well - hangar has no WiFi in range, not practical to try to get broadband installed. There is a WiFi signal in range of front of hangar (across the ramp); Could we have external antenna to a bridge / router there, and then have the Internet signal available in the hangar?
Click to expand...
Yes...
 
I had broadband in my garage for years that way, Spike. Works great if there's enough signal out there.

I had an old PC on the workbench for looking up stuff while doing repairs, etc. Way back then it was also handy for playing tunes from the file server inside the house. :)

Eventually decided it was too much of a distraction so I bought mobile devices that were even more of a distraction. ;)

We have also done some "long-haul" shots of many miles with standard 802.11 gear hooked to 2.4 GHz feed horns mounted on big dish antennas.

Technically not legal since there is a legal antenna Effective Radiated Power limit on unlicensed 2.4 GHz band transmitters, but there's whole ISPs running off the stuff in rural areas. They usually even install amplifiers. FCC stopped caring a long long time ago in that portion of 2.4.

One of the edge channels falls into the Amateur Radio spectrum and if you're licensed for Amateur service you can blow insane amounts of power legally. There is a problem with utilizing encryption though in Part 97...

I wrote a sidebar that went into a book chapter on 802.11 use in Amateur service, about the various ways under debate by the armchair lawyers at the time of publication in which one could probably utilize encryption while keeping the FCC Chief Counsel happy. (Riley Hollingsworth at the time, who was a lot saner and more predictable than his FAA counterparts!) ;)

Published in this book unless it got dumped in the new edition. I haven't looked.

http://www.arrl.org/shop/ARRL-s-VHF-Digital-Handbook
 
SCCutler said:
Is it possible, with one of the alternate OS loads, to make a WRT54 or something like it connect up to another WiFi signal, including WEP auth, and share out the signal.

Not describing this well - hangar has no WiFi in range, not practical to try to get broadband installed. There is a WiFi signal in range of front of hangar (across the ramp); Could we have external antenna to a bridge / router there, and then have the Internet signal available in the hangar?
Click to expand...

DD-WRT can be configured to act as a WiFi repeater. Not hard, if you can follow directions. I have installed quite a few of these at various airports.
 
rainsux said:
DD-WRT can be configured to act as a WiFi repeater. Not hard, if you can follow directions. I have installed quite a few of these at various airports.
Click to expand...

So, if I did this, it would essentially extend the signal from the "host" access point, such that each computer attaching would authenticate and have DHCP IP Address served up by the host access point, not the WRT54?
 
SCCutler said:
So, if I did this, it would essentially extend the signal from the "host" access point, such that each computer attaching would authenticate and have DHCP IP Address served up by the host access point, not the WRT54?
Click to expand...

There's different configs, but yes.

I used the DD-WRT as another NAT device and had it doing the DHCP and an additional firewall for "GarageNet", since I didn't really want some interloper in the garage having access to the house network.

Later I moved all wireless "outside" the home LAN and required myself to put up a VPN connection to get "inside". That got annoying so I killed "GarageNet" and have a single decent 802.11n device handling the whole house now, on the internal LAN. (It's also the DHCP server.)

This is probably going to be more confusing than helpful, but there are three different repeating modes, depending on the capabilities of your "upstream" wireless device.

http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Repeating_Mode_Comparisons

It's pretty powerful software. Thus, complexity is a little higher than the typical wireless router setup in the "consumer" commercial firmware.
 
Nate, that's perfect. Looks like "Repeater" rings the bell nicely.

Noticed my WRT has non-detachable antennae. Bummer.
 
SCCutler said:
Nate, that's perfect. Looks like "Repeater" rings the bell nicely.

Noticed my WRT has non-detachable antennae. Bummer.
Click to expand...

Yeah. The antenna diversity and NIMO stuff needs known antenna configurations. Lots of 802.11n routers with it have "locked down" antenna configs.

The Part 15 and other licensing of 802.11 devices in the 2.4 spectrum has always had wording to the effect that it shouldn't be "easy" to add antennas to the devices. In the early days, the manufacturers met the letter but not intent of that law by utilizing the standard SMA connector for antennas but reversing the threads on them.

It was only a few months before you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting someone selling reverse SMA adapters and cables, cheap. Most started out through shady businesses doing direct deals with Asian manufacturers, but nowadays everyone has them.

2.4 GHz is really an amazing example of the Wild West when it comes to Spectrum management. Many proponents of re-utilization of the analog TV bands and "whitespace" between unused TV stations in a particular geographic area point to 2.4 GHz as an example of how well it would work. I'm not so sure.

My favorite "fixes" for friends who have poor performance of their 802.11 devices are in finding that they have a 2.4 GHz cordless phone in the house or that their microwave oven is leaking like a sieve. ;) (Thus why DECT cordless phones are in the 1.9 GHz band nowadays. And none of them perform as well as the old high power analog insecure 900 MHz cordless phones for sheer range. I could walk around the block with one of those things. I could also unplug the base station and listen to the neighbors phone calls. :) )
 
SCCutler said:
Is it possible, with one of the alternate OS loads, to make a WRT54 or something like it connect up to another WiFi signal, including WEP auth, and share out the signal.

Not describing this well - hangar has no WiFi in range, not practical to try to get broadband installed. There is a WiFi signal in range of front of hangar (across the ramp); Could we have external antenna to a bridge / router there, and then have the Internet signal available in the hangar?
Click to expand...

Directional antenna on your end pointed at the source would really increase the signal.
 
And it's worth mentioning again. Apple Airport has the ability to have both a home network and a guest network from the same box.

Guest net allows Internet access but does not allow any of the home network to be visible to the guest. No additional firewalls. Simple.

Of course if someone wanted to target and hack you, they could park on your curb and with enough time figure it out. But for garden variety home networking seems good enough.
 
Who wants guests on your network? They do something inappropriate and it traces back to your IP.

I never saw the feature as a useful one. If I don't trust someone enough to give them the real network password, they can just use the 3G/4G device in their pocket.

Of course they probably wouldn't be in the house. So it's moot.
 
denverpilot said:
Who wants guests on your network? They do something inappropriate and it traces back to your IP.

I never saw the feature as a useful one. If I don't trust someone enough to give them the real network password, they can just use the 3G/4G device in their pocket.

Of course they probably wouldn't be in the house. So it's moot.
Click to expand...

I am not so much worried about what the houseguest may do on my network, I am more worried about what the malware on his promiscuous laptop may do. The separate 'guest' router has its own IP and is only plugged in when I have guests.
 
John221us said:
The new Lynksys dual band N stuff is c**p. I have had several models and the last one, I swapped out twice. They stop responding consistently and need to be rebooted (sometimes several times an hour). Google it. I am not the only one to experience this. I have been a Cisco fanboy for years, but I am running Netgear at home now.
Click to expand...

I agree that the interim step between the WRT54G(L)s and the newer E Series was utter crap, but I haven't had a problem with the E Series routers yet. Have you?
 
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