Wings Ground Requirements

Areeda

Areeda

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Areeda
I had a pilot come in wanting to complete his Level 5 Wings for his FR.

He needed 2 more flights. When I sign off yesterday's flight, I see there is no seminar signoff. He seems to think we can satisfy that with at least 1hr of ground.

I can't find anything more specific than AC 61-91H Part 7

i. Training Substitution. Completion of training program or a flight instructor refresher clinic conducted by various organizations such as flight schools, air carriers, or other training facilities may be substituted for the requirements of the Pilot Proficiency Award Program, if the minimums outlined in paragraphs 7a, b, c, d, e, f, and g are met.
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There are also guidelines on http://www.faasafety.gov for qualifying a program for the ground credit.

It seems to me that unless he does one of the approved courses on-line such as those on http://asf.aopa.org or http://www.faasafety.gov, I will be signing off a 61.56 FR not a Wings Level.

I'd appreciate your thoughts, we're supposed to finish up today.

Joe
 
Don't get me started. I talked to to the ASF rep and others, including a CFI who was in on the plan for the new Wings proram, at AOPA Expo. I managed to complete the new Wings but had gotten the old flight hours and had to map them. It was really hard to figure out and I work in tech all day long.

I found out the old Wings program is supposed to be valid until the end of the year. You prolly won't find any documentation on that but it's true.

Sooo....your student just needs ONE hour of ground, and the online ASF courses and in person seminars do, indeed, apply. Just fill out the Wings card and make the logbook endorsement for the 3 flight phases and he'll be OK. When you complete the ASF course online you get a certificate of completion which is the documentation needed.

I got to Phase 4 Wings the old way. There are no phases the new way so he'll never see Phase 6.

For some reason it was also a burr to the FAA that Wings was an "award" program so there are no more pins. Now it's just a proficiency program.

Now you need 3 ground credits. Now you need to go online whether you can or not. The "simpler" Wings system is near incomprehensible. You'll need an hour of ground to understand the requirements for Wings.

LOUD RANT TO FOLLOW.

Even under the old Wings it was almost easier to just do a BFR. Under the new program it's not even a contest - a BFR wins. The joke is is the goal was to get more participation. I predict Wings participation will drop by at least at half.
 
mikea said:
For some reason it was also a burr to the FAA that Wings was an "award" program so there are no more pins. Now it's just a proficiency program.

Now you need 3 ground credits. Now you need to go online whether you can or not. The "simpler" Wings system is near incomprehensible. You'll need an hour of ground to understand the requirements for Wings.
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My understanding was that the reason it is no longer an award program is that they don't have a budget for an award and haven't yet found a corporate sponsor. And, ironically(?), a seminar whose sole purpose is to describe the new Wings program actually counts for credit for that program!
mikea said:
LOUD RANT TO FOLLOW.

Even under the old Wings it was almost easier to just do a BFR. Under the new program it's not even a contest - a BFR wins. The joke is is the goal was to get more participation. I predict Wings participation will drop by at least at half.
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It probably will, especially since there are still some CFIs out there who'll "pencil whip" a BFR. I think the new program is better, at least in its intent, because it's harder. It also now has real performance measurements. The air-work must be done to PTS standards!

And yes, to confirm Scott's point, through the end of the year you can still do a phase of the old Wings program the old way. ADDITIONALLY, the 12-month waiting period to start the new Wings program doesn't apply and you can request that they award you a phase of Wings from the old program for completing the requirements for the new program. It must be done before the end of the year, and you have to specifically request it from the FSDO; there's no automated way to do it. My source for this is a presentation at AirVenture by the FAA and a subsequent private discussion with an FAASteam program manager from the Great Lakes at a Wings weekend.
 
gprellwitz said:
My understanding was that the reason it is no longer an award program is that they don't have a budget for an award and haven't yet found a corporate sponsor. And, ironically(?), a seminar whose sole purpose is to describe the new Wings program actually counts for credit for that program!It probably will, especially since there are still some CFIs out there who'll "pencil whip" a BFR. I think the new program is better, at least in its intent, because it's harder. It also now has real performance measurements. The air-work must be done to PTS standards!

And yes, to confirm Scott's point, through the end of the year you can still do a phase of the old Wings program the old way. ADDITIONALLY, the 12-month waiting period to start the new Wings program doesn't apply and you can request that they award you a phase of Wings from the old program for completing the requirements for the new program. It must be done before the end of the year, and you have to specifically request it from the FSDO; there's no automated way to do it. My source for this is a presentation at AirVenture by the FAA and a subsequent private discussion with an FAASteam program manager from the Great Lakes at a Wings weekend.
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Wha??? I had my CFI endorse the 3 flight phases on the new system. If I need specific FSDO approval...Oh. You mean I can get the next "old" Wings Phase for completing the new Wings. I'll call the FSDO and get no answer to my voice message or email as always.

If you view the helpful 21 minute video on the FAAST site, you'll learn that they created the new program because not enough pilots were participating in the old Wings program or even knew about it. This new program will go a long way to get the exact opposite of what they intended. I suspect that most pilots when they learn what the new Wings program entails, will conscientiously decide NOT to participate.

https://www.faasafety.gov/WINGS/pppinfo/default.aspx
 
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I did my first BFR in years this summer because I just couldn't figure out the new program.
 
I did the old wings this year, but that is the end of that. Simpler to do the BFR along with an IPC, and not have to keep track of all that.
 
The new Wings program is way, way more complicated than the old one, and there's a lot more than "one hour of ground" required to complete the non-flying side of a Wings stage now. Frankly, even though I'm a designated FAASTeam Rep, I'm conversant enough to answer Wings questions without careful review of the guidelines. In any even, a simple "one hour of ground" with an instructor will not do for a Wings stage, so the best you can do with only "one hour of ground" is endorse that person for a 61.56(a) flight review if that one hour of ground plus the one-plus hour of flying you did satisfies you as meeting 61.56(a). If you have further questions, contact the FAASTeam Manager at your local FSDO, and get the answer in writing.
 
Ron Levy said:
The new Wings program is way, way more complicated than the old one, and there's a lot more than "one hour of ground" required to complete the non-flying side of a Wings stage now. ... In any even, a simple "one hour of ground" with an instructor will not do for a Wings stage, so the best you can do with only "one hour of ground" is endorse that person for a 61.56(a) flight review if that one hour of ground plus the one-plus hour of flying you did satisfies you as meeting 61.56(a). ...
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There are "courses" online at the new Wings site. You have to pass 3, only the third is one you can pick out.

They also tout how you set your profile so you get resources that are appropriate.

So... RANT ON...

OK, I'm Private Pilot, Single Engine. No Instrument Rating.

REQUIRED Course 1: "Aeronautical Decision Making"

Question 1) Read scenario one.

Scenario 1: ...Pilot is a CFI with 1200 hours, 10 hour multi time all in a Piper nnnn, he is IR current but has only flown a few hours in actual IMC with students. He is renting a Diamond twin to fly cross country...

METAR are.....


What is wrong with this pilot's decision to fly?
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Ok, I'm not a CFI, not multi rated, not instrument rated but THANK YOU for this course DESIGNED WITH ME IN MIND. I'll be happy to guess at the answers until I get the answers correct. :dunno:
 
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