Windy and Bumpy Today

[Morne]

It was a clear, bright sunny day today. Thus, I decided to go fly. Sure, they were calling for some gusty winds around 10am, but they were also projected to be right down my runway. And yeah - there was an Airmet for "moderate" turbulence, but I figured it wouldn't be a big deal.

Took off with winds within 10 degrees of the runway @ 9G14. Piece of cake and only hit a little chop around 4000' during the climb. Settled in at 9500' eastbound and started recording some amazing groundspeeds (over 170 knots at one point - not bad for a 50 year old 182). Needless to say, the winds aloft were howling out of the west.

Got over in the PIT area with intent to land at AGC. Talking to PIT approach and cleared to descend through their Bravo, things got "interesting" at about 5500'. Apparently, "moderate" is in the eye of the beholder. After fighting the controls down to about 4000', heading to an airport I had never landed at where the winds were gusting like crazy, I said, "To Niflheim with this." Called PIT approach and said I wanted to turn around and go home! Turned west and everything calmed down once I got back above 6000'.

Of course, now those winds were in my face, so I plodded along at 80-ish knots going home. Got handed off to CAK approach and during my descent to my home airport there was AGAIN turbulence at 5500'. When CAK approach asked me to characterize it, I replied, "I guess the briefer's idea of moderate was spot on, because my fillings are still in my teeth, but that's the best I can say about this." I was hoping that as I got closer to the ground it would ease up, but no dice. Even at 2500', the lowest I really feel comfortable around here outside of the pattern, I was getting bounced more often than a rubber check.

To top it all off, the winds at my home airport were now worse - 30-40 degrees off of the runway @ 14G26 (CAK had gusts over 30 knots). Not the worst I've ever landed in but certainly not ideal. Wanting to get my butt on the ground ASAP I did a straight in approach for 28. Only one guy in the pattern, a Sundowner doing touch & goes who was very polite to let me in. As I rounded out I caught a BIG gust and was tossed 20 feet back up in the air. Fortunately, I had lots of runway left so I wrestled her back down and was actually pretty proud of my landing.

When I put the plane away in the hangar I felt like I had been beat up. Two hours of total time engine running was all, and NONE of it counts as cross country because I never landed anywhere else! Oh well, discretion/valor/something.

Final irony - today in the mail I received a CD from the FAA on safe aviation decision making or somesuch.

 

[Jeanie]

RODEO!! glad you got home and landed ok

 

[dmccormack]

It was a clear, bright sunny day today. Thus, I decided to go fly. Sure, they were calling for some gusty winds around 10am, but they were also projected to be right down my runway. And yeah - there was an Airmet for "moderate" turbulence, but I figured it wouldn't be a big deal.

Took off with winds within 10 degrees of the runway @ 9G14. Piece of cake and only hit a little chop around 4000' during the climb. Settled in at 9500' eastbound and started recording some amazing groundspeeds (over 170 knots at one point - not bad for a 50 year old 182). Needless to say, the winds aloft were howling out of the west.

Got over in the PIT area with intent to land at AGC. Talking to PIT approach and cleared to descend through their Bravo, things got "interesting" at about 5500'. Apparently, "moderate" is in the eye of the beholder. After fighting the controls down to about 4000', heading to an airport I had never landed at where the winds were gusting like crazy, I said, "To Niflheim with this." Called PIT approach and said I wanted to turn around and go home! Turned west and everything calmed down once I got back above 6000'.

Of course, now those winds were in my face, so I plodded along at 80-ish knots going home. Got handed off to CAK approach and during my descent to my home airport there was AGAIN turbulence at 5500'. When CAK approach asked me to characterize it, I replied, "I guess the briefer's idea of moderate was spot on, because my fillings are still in my teeth, but that's the best I can say about this." I was hoping that as I got closer to the ground it would ease up, but no dice. Even at 2500', the lowest I really feel comfortable around here outside of the pattern, I was getting bounced more often than a rubber check.

To top it all off, the winds at my home airport were now worse - 30-40 degrees off of the runway @ 14G26 (CAK had gusts over 30 knots). Not the worst I've ever landed in but certainly not ideal. Wanting to get my butt on the ground ASAP I did a straight in approach for 28. Only one guy in the pattern, a Sundowner doing touch & goes who was very polite to let me in. As I rounded out I caught a BIG gust and was tossed 20 feet back up in the air. Fortunately, I had lots of runway left so I wrestled her back down and was actually pretty proud of my landing.

When I put the plane away in the hangar I felt like I had been beat up. Two hours of total time engine running was all, and NONE of it counts as cross country because I never landed anywhere else! Oh well, discretion/valor/something.

Final irony - today in the mail I received a CD from the FAA on safe aviation decision making or somesuch.

And people don't believe me when I tell them when winds >20 in Western PA it's a stay on the ground day....

 

[Geico266]

In Nebraska we fly with wind or you don't fly. I hate those days when it is mod turb. Whoever called it moderate has not been in a small plane in it!

I normally fly into wind when just flying around so I can run with the wind home. It sure is a chore to do 80 when you were do 150!

Sounds like a good landing though. I don't mind strong winds when landing, it is trying to park the plane and get out without have the wind damage something.

Nice write up BTW.

 

[inktomi]

Sounds like my very first cross country. Mid July, Las Vegas to Big Bear california. No wind, but woah were the desert thermals in effect on the return. I'd never been bounced around in a DA20 like that before!

Glad you made it back in one piece. Even when you know turbulence isn't going to hurt you, it's no fun to be in. It sounds like you got a nice practice at a crosswind landing though - it's always good to keep current with wind

 

[gprellwitz]

Yeah, that's about what we were experiencing yesterday coming back from Windwood. 84Kt in the 182, with moderate turbulence below about 4000. It was to get back at us for 178Kt on the way out last Friday!

 

[saracelica]

Sorry you got all the way to AGC and couldn't land it. I went with my CFI yesterday (out of TDZ - Toledo, Ohio) and it was crazy. I did the best when I did simulated engine failure Something about pretending not having an engine and I can always get her down safely. He said not many pilots would be out in a day like yesterday. Glad you're back on the ground safely.

 

[ScottK]

And people don't believe me when I tell them when winds >20 in Western PA it's a stay on the ground day....

I fly out of KLBE and have postponed my long x-c twice because of winds. That perfect 5 days (Oct 6-10) we had really spoiled me. I flew Thurs (first solo x-c), Fri (first night flight/landings) and Sun (x-c to Clarion). Haven't flown since.

Where do you fly out of Dan?


Scott

 

[steingar]

Fall flying in the East. Ain't it a blast!

 

[dmccormack]

I fly out of KLBE and have postponed my long x-c twice because of winds. That perfect 5 days (Oct 6-10) we had really spoiled me. I flew Thurs (first solo x-c), Fri (first night flight/landings) and Sun (x-c to Clarion). Haven't flown since.

Where do you fly out of Dan?


Scott

For the past 5 years I've flown from MGW, VVS, FWQ, and WAY, but we moved back east in June so my new base is S37 (Smoketown,PA)

My Chief's previous home was Clarion.

Welcome to the board!!

 

[ScottK]

For the past 5 years I've flown from MGW, VVS, FWQ, and WAY, but we moved back east in June so my new base is S37 (Smoketown,PA)

My Chief's previous home was Clarion.

Welcome to the board!!

Thanks for the welcome.

I've been to VVS and FWQ a good bit. I just passed through MGW airspace on my first solo x-c to CKB. Haven't been to WAY, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

Clarion was a nice trip for me. We did it dual first, then I did it myself last week. Our dual trip was in some pretty strong winds. I made a couple ugly landings up there with my instructor along. On my own, the winds were almost calm which made for an easy trip.

I have a long x-c planned to FKL and DUJ plus we're going to DUJ for the night x-c. My instructor likes the wider r/w up there. We just have to get some wx. Hopefully, I'll knock them both out this weekend.

Did you ever get into LBE much?

 

[dmccormack]

Did you ever get into LBE much?

Not really -- expensive gas, but have shot quite a few approaches there.

I have referred a few folks to LBE who have called asking about flight training -- it sounds like you found one of the few still alive in the region.

 

[p1l0t]

The turbulence reports are from PIREPs or Pilot-Reports (You probably already know this but just stating it for the benefit of readers). Always, especially with turbulence, check the type of aircraft. A 747 reporting moderate (or even light) turbulence maybe your head hitting the ceiling in a little 152 (or most small piston singles). That 152 reporting light turbulence may not even be noticable in even say a Mooney. PIREPs are generally accurate but you have try and keep it in perspective (what airplane, what altitude, what time, etc..). Also keep in mind that moderate turbulence is enough to briefly upset the attitude of the aircraft.

I flew this Sunday in CT and there was some occasional moderate. I was with a PP and my G/F who is not a pilot but flys with me all the time. My girlfriend has been with me during commercial manuevers, in some continous light turbulence, full IMC low ceilings, even rain and light snow never an issue. The Private Pilot was the kid that works the desk at the flight school. My second flight cancelled on me but I wanted to fly some more so I was like, "Hey about I call my g/f up and we'll take out my [flying clubs] Mooney and we'll do some commercial maneuvers." He said F-yeah more-or-less. I overestimated my girls ability to stomach commercial maneuvers (we did Chandelles, Steep Spirals, and Lazy 8s) in continous light and occasional moderate turbulence though.. She was getting a little green and wasn't afraid to let me know either. Heck, if I was in the backseat for that I might get green. We stopped at the nearest airport KIJD for coffee, candy bars (well she just had water), and some hangar flying with some of the local pilots. After 15 minutes she was fine and we flew back to KHFD. Long story short is take it all in context and think about who your bringing/what your going to be doing too. She did get all kinds of great pictures of the aircraft in different attitudes though, which is great because I never get pictures like that (to busy flying the airplane).

<---<^>--->

 

[Morne]

And people don't believe me when I tell them when winds >20 in Western PA it's a stay on the ground day....

Looking down at the hills, knowing the surface winds were high/gusty as well, was the straw that broke the camel's back in my decision to turn around. I figured that if the turbulence was as bad as it was at 4000'-5500' then it would likely be worse at traffic pattern-to-runway altitudes.

Now if I were familiar with the airport, and the way the winds play over local terrain, that's one thing. But trying to land at an airport for the first time in those conditions? Pass.

 

[Morne]

What was the approximate time you were descending into the bumpy air? Was that just west of AGC?

I began my descent around 12:20pm local (1620z)or so. It was between the Wheeling VOR (HLG) and AGC. I like to use the Wheeling VOR as a checkpoint to keep me as much out of the way of the airliners coming in and out of PIT as possible.

 

[Morne]

This kind of turbulence really had very little to do with the turbulence forecast in the AIRMET per se. You just experienced entering the top of what is called the mixed layer (or more specifically the entrainment zone).

Could you kindly expand on that?

Was my assertion that the turbulence would likely worsen as I neared the surface right?

 

[ScottK]

Terrain can also play a role as well.

I see that at our airport all the time. The rw is 5/23, and there is a ridge along the east side of the airport. Winds 140@10 are a whole lot rougher than 320@10. I was told from day one that if the winds are from the east, expect a bumpy ride around the pattern and so far, it has held true.

I went out with my instructor for x-wind practice in a 140 @ 10G15 and it was quite a ride. There were a couple go-arounds because the airplane (Cherokee 140) couldn't hold the centerline after the winds increased to 14G20. That was when we wrapped it up and got on the ground.

Scott