Windows 8?

poadeleted21

poadeleted21

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
12,332
Can someone explain to me why I want this new interface? Or excuse me this new ADDITIONAL interface?

I admit I hated the new start menu in Vista and switched it back to Classic mode. Then was POed when they removed classic from Win 7. But, I learned to stop worrying and love the new start menu.

So, I'm trying to keep an open mind here but it seems that Windows 8 has an identity crisis going on. What's the point in the tiled start menu, Why does Internet Explorer look different when I launch it from there? Why is a full OS hiding behind the tiles? Why can't I close application launched via a tile anyway except the task manager?

I think I'm missing the point?
 
OS designed to the lowest common denominator, Windows phone.

I don't like it. :D
 
Wife and I were just setting up her new Samsung tablet that came with Win-8. She asked the same questions..."why can't I close this and that, like before?". I actually like Win-7 better. Why do they keep re-inventing the wheel:dunno:
 
Microsoft has been circling the drain for a little while. It's gotten to the point where people are starting to notice.

Windows 8 is a disaster. Ballmer has to GO!
 
Mom got a Win 8 computer. I hate it. I want a new laptop, but there's no way I'm buying one with Win8 or Crapple OS. I like Win7. I have 64-bit pro, and I'm 0-power to full functionality in 13 seconds.
 
I'm on a Mac now, but still use Windows for anything that really needs to be done. But I'll NEVER "upgrade" to Win 8. What a crook!!
 
Ok, I'll take a shot. Win8 represents MS's attempt at a unifying platform that gives a common experience across platforms/form-factors. So you get a similar experience whether on a phone, a tablet or a desktop.

It would be like Apple unifying OS X and iOS into a single OS.

Is it a big change! You bet! Is it perfect. No way! But I think it holds promise. The more I use it (there IS a learning curve!) the better I like it.

There's much more there than meets the eye. I wouldn't write it off too quickly.
 
LDJones said:
Ok, I'll take a shot. Win8 represents MS's attempt at a unifying platform that gives a common experience across platforms/form-factors. So you get a similar experience whether on a phone, a tablet or a desktop.

It would be like Apple unifying OS X and iOS into a single OS.

Is it a big change! You bet! Is it perfect. No way! But I think it holds promise. The more I use it (there IS a learning curve!) the better I like it.

There's much more there than meets the eye. I wouldn't write it off too quickly.
Click to expand...

I think Lion was an attempt to do that with the Mac Store and the icons that load the same way as iOS. I found it an OK attempt to keep a familiar interface that wasn't intrusive. Win 8 seems like it's trying to be 2 things at once.
 
Personally, I'm not enthused about the concept of trying to force portable phone/tablet users and desktop computer users to use the same operating system. However, I admit that I haven't tried Win 8.
 
LDJones said:
Ok, I'll take a shot. Win8 represents MS's attempt at a unifying platform that gives a common experience across platforms/form-factors. So you get a similar experience whether on a phone, a tablet or a desktop.

It would be like Apple unifying OS X and iOS into a single OS.

Is it a big change! You bet! Is it perfect. No way! But I think it holds promise. The more I use it (there IS a learning curve!) the better I like it.

There's much more there than meets the eye. I wouldn't write it off too quickly.
Click to expand...

Doesn't work well when the lowest common denominator is the phone and a 4" screen.

Why do we need a common experience? If that was true no one who uses a windows based computer would have ever bought an iPhone because we would have never figured it out. :D
 
LDJones said:
Ok, I'll take a shot. Win8 represents MS's attempt at a unifying platform that gives a common experience across platforms/form-factors. So you get a similar experience whether on a phone, a tablet or a desktop.

It would be like Apple unifying OS X and iOS into a single OS.
Click to expand...

Interestingly enough, iOS and OS X share a lot of "stuff", with iOS starting out as a subset of OS X with a new UI, and with some of the familiar and useful iOS elements migrating back up into the desktop OS - But Apple is smart enough to know that a desktop/laptop and a phone SHOULD be different in a lot of ways!

bartmc said:
I think Lion was an attempt to do that with the Mac Store and the icons that load the same way as iOS. I found it an OK attempt to keep a familiar interface that wasn't intrusive.
Click to expand...

But again, Apple moved the things over that made sense - Reverse scrolling (and the new scroll bars), Launchpad, the App Store, full-screen mode, etc while keeping the OS distinctly different in the ways that are important on a desktop OS.

It sounds like M$ is trying to force the mobile experience onto desktops. They kind of remind me of Facebook - Every so often, they change the UI for no good reason! That's one of the most annoying things about M$, they change how things work with every new major release of <insert product here>, forcing you to re-learn how to do things. Apple has enough consistency that you can buy a new major release and instantly sit down and be productive on it with little to no learning curve.

My company is some kind of Microsoft partner and I've had access to Win8 for a long time... I've been meaning to install it on a VM and experiment with it a bit, but I've been too busy. Every time I hear about it, I'm less motivated to want to install it!
 
We are a MS partner and get it for free for our internal systems. I have been using it for a while. I want my money back....

IMHO, on a touch screen (phone or PC) it is not bad, bordering on good. With a mouse (still the real world) it is horrible. I thought once I figured out where they hid things I'd get used to it. Unfortunately not.

Worse is Office 2013. Both the new Office and Windows are trying to force users to the next platform in the cloud. Although the idea is valid and I like it, it's not ready. We tell our customers when they buy new hardware to get touchscreens and W8 but not to "upgrade" existing H/W. I really hate that I can not sync outlook with iCloud. There are some nice features but it is not improvement.

.....and I thought they had finally gotten it right with W7......
 
Bough my wife an HP EliteBook tablet PC and loaded Win 8 on it. She seems to like it for the most part but she's not a "power user". She uses the EliteBook to surf the web and work with MS Office 2013.

The biggest complaint that she and I both have with Win 8 is that you are still unable to print PDF's from Adobe Acrobat or Microsoft Reader.
 
Yeah, I remember when I was forced to switch from a clean, simple CPM prompt. Those stupid DOS people made me reverse the file names on a simple concatenation command. It was awful. Then DOS deserted me and I had to use that funky Windows stuff. Ye gods! I'm still getting over it. Where is D-BASE III+ when I need it?
Well, I have 8 on my desktop and will have it on my Surface Pro and cell phone. There is a learning curve. There was with the prior changes, as well. I figure it's just something to adapt to and incorporate.
 
jnmeade said:
Yeah, I remember when I was forced to switch from a clean, simple CPM prompt. Those stupid DOS people made me reverse the file names on a simple concatenation command. It was awful. Then DOS deserted me and I had to use that funky Windows stuff. Ye gods! I'm still getting over it. Where is D-BASE III+ when I need it?
Well, I have 8 on my desktop and will have it on my Surface Pro and cell phone. There is a learning curve. There was with the prior changes, as well. I figure it's just something to adapt to and incorporate.
Click to expand...

You forgot VisiCalc!
 
"Although it is difficult to make predictions, it is clear that CP/M will be in use for many generations to come." -- from a 1984 textbook.

I don't think people realize how quickly things can change with respect to computers and operating systems. It's not frogs jumping out of the water as it gets too warm -- it's birds taking flight after the first one leaves. With knife edge suddenness.
 
"Although it is difficult to make predictions, it is clear that CP/M will be in use for many generations to come." -- from a 1984 textbook.

I don't think people realize how quickly things can change with respect to computers and operating systems. It's not frogs hopping out of the water as it gets too warm -- it's birds taking flight after the first one leaves. With knife edge suddenness.
 
Windows 8 rocks. Windows 8 Pro on X86 comes with Hypervisor, Better Disk Managemen, UEFI quick boot/ secure boot, Better performance, better file IO, better USB 3.0 speeds. Windows 8 on Surface / Surface RT integrates nicely, offers everything you see on a tablet interface and it rocks too.

For PC users the only thing that changes really is a start page vs start bar.

I laugh every time I hear all this FUD about windows 8.. I mean, if you can learn iOS and how to use an iPad with all its difficulties in doing what you guys have to buy app after app to try and pull off, figuring out Windows 8 is easy in comparison.

Lets take the Surface running Windows 8 RT (ARM) and compare it against the ipad. On Windows 8, you can use USB printers, USB disks, USB readers, USB joysticks, USB controllers, USB wifi/radios/receivers/GPS dongles. You can also connect an HDMI monitor and have dual displays/dock. If you don't want to use USB devices, the Wifi support in Windows RT is just like Windows 8 X86 and the drivers are similar to so you can wifi print, wifi share, wifi access shared folders/directories/services - you can even login to your HomeGroup to access shared resources.

Not only that, but you can drop out of the "Metro" experience and use standard file management/folders to copy files back and forth, download docs, manage PDF's and whatnot.

Windows 8 is a superb improvement to Windows 7 from a desktop users perspective. The "MinWin" kernel is is now in parity with Windows Server 2012 as well, offers superior performance on multi core systems, low power systems and power efficiency across all devices.

The Windows Metro interface is an interface/API/Style that translates to ultra-portable useage as well - with asynchronous access, background processes and full multi-tasking it does everything a desktop can do and a tablet can do in a unified experience with strict compliance to power and cpu efficiency which is critical in ultra-portable devices.

So no longer will you need a tablet/desktop/portable having unique ecosystems, you can have it all in one.. but still operating in a fashion you're already accustomed to.

Note: I use windows phone 8 (nokia 920), ios (iphone 4s) and Windows 8 (Surface and on all of my PC's and media center boxes) and I use iOS on ipads at work.. I can't wait until Windows phone "blue" and windows 8 "blue" finally merge the app store for the phone/tablet universes as well - or at least bring them closer together.

like lord of the rings.. "one app to rule them all"
 
Last edited:
redtail said:
Wife and I were just setting up her new Samsung tablet that came with Win-8. She asked the same questions..."why can't I close this and that, like before?". I actually like Win-7 better. Why do they keep re-inventing the wheel:dunno:
Click to expand...

Those Samsung tablets are expensive, I certainly hope you knew the benefits of Windows 8 on a tablet before you plopped down cold hard cash to move it to an OS that has inferior capabilities on that platform.

The new touch interface is a dream on tablets.. i'm not sure why anyone would punish themselves with the classic win7 interface on a touch device. (unless they're using it docked with a mouse and keyboard)
 
momalley said:
Bough my wife an HP EliteBook tablet PC and loaded Win 8 on it. She seems to like it for the most part but she's not a "power user". She uses the EliteBook to surf the web and work with MS Office 2013.

The biggest complaint that she and I both have with Win 8 is that you are still unable to print PDF's from Adobe Acrobat or Microsoft Reader.
Click to expand...

PDF's do print, have you tried updating either the built in PDF reader or to adobe reader? Both apps have seen many updates recently.

I was surprised when Office 2013 on my Surface opened PDF's for editing ;)
 
bartmc said:
So, I'm trying to keep an open mind here but it seems that Windows 8 has an identity crisis going on. What's the point in the tiled start menu, Why does Internet Explorer look different when I launch it from there? Why is a full OS hiding behind the tiles? Why can't I close application launched via a tile anyway except the task manager?

I think I'm missing the point?
Click to expand...

The new interface is built according to "Metro" programming language and against the "WinRT" api. Windows 7 was based on Win32, Silverlight and XAML coding which was largely "Architecture" dependent meaning Windows apps were compiled for a specific computer type - be it 32 bit, 64bit X86 or as in older versions of windows, X86, Mips or Alpha.

WinRT API is platform agnostic and windows 8 runs on multiple architectures - Right now X86/X86 (Windows 8 Pro) and ARM (Windows RT) - the WinRT allows developers to build a unified app that can not only run across the multiple platforms just by building a new compiled package from the same source tree - but also run across these different architectures supporting their native profile. By native profile I mean running with touch/gesture/mouse/keyboard support as well as being HIGHLY efficient in being cpu/resource light so that portable and ultra portable devices such as tablets/laptops can have 3-6-9 or 12+ hour battery lives.

The old "win32" and desktop experience remains because there is a lot of good applications for that, but the new "metro experiences" is built around consolidating the tablet/touch experience across the entire windows experience regardless of form factor or devices - so once you learn one thing, you can run it anywhere.

MS is on an accelerated release schedule so i'm sure windows blue will bring improvements to the UI to make it a stronger contender for not just desktops but other form factors that arise too.

the old UI just doesn't work with touch, the win32 API isn't very resource friendly by design and well, the new WinRT api is modernized so you can write applications in HTML5/JavaScript, C# and C++ and use XAML as well which offers an insane amount of flexibility and portability to developers.
 
Last edited:
This is why the "light" interface we call metro is where MS is taking things.

http://youtu.be/ho00x7ZvDLw

Touch/gesture/voice/keyboard/mouse/xbox controller/Kinect - its pretty sweet when/how it works
 
MSPAviator said:
This video illustrates my gripes with Windows 8 better than I can.
Click to expand...

The only thing this illustrates is what an idiot this guy is. He mostly speaks in large generalizations and when he does actually back up his admonishments with an example, it only servers to show that this guy couldn't figure out how to put a straw in a cup with explicit directions. The fact that Microsoft moved where you access a few of the setup functions and how you access some of the menus certainly shouldn't condemn an OS.

Edit: The ironic thing is that, if he spent as much time learning how to use the new features and menus as he did drawing stick figures to show how much he hates the OS, then he would be an expert on it already, but clearly he has an agenda (he is a Linux guy who treats technology like a religion and not the productivity tool it is. If you really believe he ever intended to give the OS a "fair" review, then you are pretty gullible).
 
Last edited:
John221us said:
The only thing this illustrates is what an idiot this guy is. He mostly speaks in large generalizations and when he does actually back up his admonishments with an example, it only servers to show that this guy couldn't figure out how to put a straw in a cup with explicit directions. The fact that Microsoft moved where you access a few of the setup functions and how you access some of the menus certainly shouldn't condemn an OS.
Click to expand...

This is the review I usually send to people so they get an idea of what MS is doing with Windows 8..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTOiVvHCIyI&feature=share&list=LL6dUnpAonbN_S8BWeZ0QYIA

This guy reviews everything and talks about it pretty thoroughly..
 
MSPAviator said:
Touchscreen interfaces suck if all you have is a mouse. W8 is a disaster.
Click to expand...

Its far from a disaster. Its a vast improvement over 7 in many ways and if you are scared of metro the only change is using start page vs start menu and the start page is vastly superior at what it does compared to the old nested menu.

I could post videos of myself or my 5 year old mousing like a pro, but doubt you would care :D
 
supernovae said:
Its far from a disaster. Its a vast improvement over 7 in many ways and if you are scared of metro the only change is using start page vs start menu and the start page is vastly superior at what it does compared to the old nested menu.

I could post videos of myself or my 5 year old mousing like a pro, but doubt you would care :D
Click to expand...

I play a number of video games and write my own software ("C"). I have been told I will have to set up a virtual machine and run another operating system. Why not just load Vista (what I am currently using) on any new machine and scrap Metro.
 
ArtPileggi said:
I play a number of video games and write my own software ("C"). I have been told I will have to set up a virtual machine and run another operating system. Why not just load Vista (what I am currently using) on any new machine and scrap Metro.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you're talking about. You can write your own software in Windows 8, they didn't remove anything on X86 side. You don't need to run metro apps if you don't want to as long as you stick to X86 hardware.. There are just enough kernel enhancements, driver updates, code fixes, drive / raid extensions / DX 11.1 updates and tons of other reasons to upgrade from vista - from a developer / gamer / classic gamer perspective

I play video games, code/develop/work in Windows 8. (Python, Visual Studio w C++/C#/Visual Python, Oracle Developer, Forms & Reports, TOAD..)

HyperV is pretty sweet btw, I even have a Redhat, Oracle Linux VM I bootup and I virtualized an old retired laptop I had so I could access the disk image and bootup when I need to grab something I long forgot about.

DOSBox still runs great too :)
 
ArtPileggi said:
I play a number of video games and write my own software ("C"). I have been told I will have to set up a virtual machine and run another operating system. Why not just load Vista (what I am currently using) on any new machine and scrap Metro.
Click to expand...

Most people couldn't wait to dump Vista. Actually most people just skipped it (stuck with XP until Win 7 shipped). I wasn't a total Vista hater, but it was difficult if you weren't on a domain.
 
supernovae said:
Not sure what you're talking about. You can write your own software in Windows 8, they didn't remove anything on X86 side. You don't need to run metro apps if you don't want to as long as you stick to X86 hardware.. There are just enough kernel enhancements, driver updates, code fixes, drive / raid extensions / DX 11.1 updates and tons of other reasons to upgrade from vista - from a developer / gamer / classic gamer perspective

I play video games, code/develop/work in Windows 8. (Python, Visual Studio w C++/C#/Visual Python, Oracle Developer, Forms & Reports, TOAD..)

HyperV is pretty sweet btw, I even have a Redhat, Oracle Linux VM I bootup and I virtualized an old retired laptop I had so I could access the disk image and bootup when I need to grab something I long forgot about.

DOSBox still runs great too :)
Click to expand...

There you have it.

If you are a professional programmer you can probably figure out how to use Win8. But for us common folk, it is still a disaster!

This is really the beginning of the end for Microsoft. It reminds me of RIM.
 
supernovae said:
HyperV is pretty sweet btw, I even have a Redhat, Oracle Linux VM I bootup and I virtualized an old retired laptop I had so I could access the disk image and bootup when I need to grab something I long forgot about.

DOSBox still runs great too :)
Click to expand...

I'd like to learn a bit more about that. I'd like to do the same thing. I have a dye sub printer that works great, but no drivers beyond XP and the laptop that has driven it is on its last legs. Any tips would be appreciated.
 
kgruber said:
There you have it.

If you are a professional programmer you can probably figure out how to use Win8. But for us common folk, it is still a disaster!

This is really the beginning of the end for Microsoft. It reminds me of RIM.
Click to expand...

I don't know. My 76 yr old neighbor just got a Win8 laptop with touchscreen. She's about as non-techie as they come, but she's figuring it out.
 
Last edited:
LDJones said:
I'd like to learn a bit more about that. I'd like to do the same thing. I have a dye sub printer that works great, but no drivers beyond XP and the laptop that has driven it is on its last legs. Any tips would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Wow, I retired my dye sub years ago. Today's archival inks are pretty darn good and that dye sub is expensive to keep supplied.
 
supernovae said:
Not sure what you're talking about. You can write your own software in Windows 8, they didn't remove anything on X86 side. You don't need to run metro apps if you don't want to as long as you stick to X86 hardware.. There are just enough kernel enhancements, driver updates, code fixes, drive / raid extensions / DX 11.1 updates and tons of other reasons to upgrade from vista - from a developer / gamer / classic gamer perspective

I play video games, code/develop/work in Windows 8. (Python, Visual Studio w C++/C#/Visual Python, Oracle Developer, Forms & Reports, TOAD..)
Click to expand...

I wrote my code 10 years ago. The games I play are probably 10 years old. I am not interested in developing new interfaces for additional functionality I never had so I don't need to continue doing what I was doing. I just want my stuff to work the way it always has. Posting on other sites indicated that some games will not run under metro and will require a VM operating environment with another operating system. I can't confirm if this is true, but I am not about to spend $2000 on a new computer only to find out it my be fancier but it won't do what I want.
 
kgruber said:
There you have it.

If you are a professional programmer you can probably figure out how to use Win8. But for us common folk, it is still a disaster!

This is really the beginning of the end for Microsoft. It reminds me of RIM.
Click to expand...

My 5 year old & 8 Year old daughters use it and love it.. So does my wife, who can't stand being bothered with things not working and doesn't have the time to fart around.

Windows 8 is 4 gestures and a touch.. Filling out a flight plan is harder than learning windows 8..
 
ArtPileggi said:
I wrote my code 10 years ago. The games I play are probably 10 years old. I am not interested in developing new interfaces for additional functionality I never had so I don't need to continue doing what I was doing. I just want my stuff to work the way it always has. Posting on other sites indicated that some games will not run under metro and will require a VM operating environment with another operating system. I can't confirm if this is true, but I am not about to spend $2000 on a new computer only to find out it my be fancier but it won't do what I want.
Click to expand...

Don't need a new computer for 8, it runs really well on old stuff.. in fact, it breathes new life into old systems. The upgrade was 40 bucks but has since gone up..

BUT, if you don't need any of windows 8 features, that is fine to. I wouldn't force anyone to upgrade for the sake of upgrading.. At the same time, just because you don't upgrade doesn't justify it not being worthy to others :)

I think people have been misleading you about windows 8.. if you run vista, it will work in 8. as long as you stick to pcs..
 
LDJones said:
I don't know. My 76 yr old neighbor just got a Win8 laptop with touchscreen. She's about as non-techie as they one, but she's figuring it out.
Click to expand...

It's super simple.

This guide sums up how to get the Hypervisor running

http://www.howtogeek.com/76532/how-to-install-or-enable-hyper-v-virtualization-in-windows-8/

Then when you run the admin tool, it pretty much has wizards to help you build a new image. I typically build thin vhd images (thin provisioned) so they don't eat up more space than is necessary. Once you create a virtual machine, you can boot it and install an OS just as if it was a fresh install. So if you have an XP disk, create an XP virtual machine, insert the disk or mount the iso and boot the VM and it will run through the installer.

We have some lab equipment that forces XP requirements and this works really well. Also means we can just ship new images to our field equipment and keep the booted OS separate of the application.

hopefully they will just re-write the xp stuff in the end, but whatever.. lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top