Will the computer rat me out?

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I was talking to Chicago Approach for flight following when I got distracted with an in-flight issue. I busted the ORD Bravo for probably about 20-30 seconds, flying at 2,100 feet where the Bravo came down to 1,900 feet. The controller didn't say anything. I realized and went back down to 1,800 feet where I quietly remained. It was a night flight.

I just read on PoA that computers sometimes rat out N-numbers. What are the chances of this happening to me? I am scared!
 
No chance at all. If the controller didn't say anything, nobody noticed. Now go, and sin no more.

What would trigger a problem for you is loss of separation, i.e., that your altitude deviation caused a loss of separation between you and some IFR traffic resulting in a TCAS avoidance maneuver or other alarm to sound. Had that happened, the controller would have immediately notified you of the deviation and given you a number to call after landing. Since that didn't happened, nobody noticed, and your tree just fell in the unoccupied forest.
 
Ron Levy said:
No chance at all. If the controller didn't say anything, nobody noticed. Now go, and sin no more.

What would trigger a problem for you is loss of separation, i.e., that your altitude deviation caused a loss of separation between you and some IFR traffic resulting in a TCAS avoidance maneuver or other alarm to sound. Had that happened, the controller would have immediately notified you of the deviation and given you a number to call after landing. Since that didn't happened, nobody noticed, and your tree just fell in the unoccupied forest.
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you're gonna get busted, but I can help. Put $500 in my paypal account, and I know people that will make it all go away for you.
 
Unregistered said:
I was talking to Chicago Approach for flight following when I got distracted with an in-flight issue. I busted the ORD Bravo for probably about 20-30 seconds, flying at 2,100 feet where the Bravo came down to 1,900 feet. The controller didn't say anything. I realized and went back down to 1,800 feet where I quietly remained. It was a night flight.

I just read on PoA that computers sometimes rat out N-numbers. What are the chances of this happening to me? I am scared!
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Had you been radar identified?
 
This is an obvious troll. Everyone knows there is no such thing as flight following from Chicago Approach!
 
Unregistered said:
Yes, I had been.
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Then it's possible an airspace bust can be connected to the aircraft you were operating. It doesn't mean one will be or even that one is likely, it just means it's possible. I'd file an ASRS report and then say no more about the incident to anyone.
 
Looks like you hit some turbulence,wouldn't worry to much over a couple of hundred ft for a few seconds. Also was your alt set to their setting.
 
I have busted bravo a couple times.
How it works as far as I can tell.

If you bust and they care, they will follow you. When you land they will call the airport where you landed and say "Who just landed?"

I busted once as a solo student not paying attention and I did nothing about it. I busted once because I was in rising air and trying to descend but obviously not fast enough. I got just a few feet in the bravo and just powered to idle and got out (after that my rule changed from always fly 100 feet below to always fly 400 feet below)

The other day I may have busted and was distracted like you. I was at 3200 and in the 4000 shelf but I looked at foreflight and realized I wasn't aware if what heppend first, hitting 3200 or entering the 4k shelf.

Just for CYA, I submitted an NASA report.

I could be wrong here. I live under DFW and I can't tell you how many times I have swapped stories with guys who have busted. I think if you fly through it for 20 minutes oblivious they will come after you. I think they see VFR traffic enter and quickly get out, they will probably let it slide.

I wouldn't sweat it. Maybe submit the NASA report to make you worry less about it. If they do come after you tell them you are a new pilot and were changing your altimeter setting and rolled it the wrong direction and didn't catch it. (not sure if that would actually work but my understanding is they get your alt from the transponder sending it from that gauge)

Either way I know a lot of people who have found themselves in that airspace and none of them have seen anything come of it.

That being said, do what you can to stay out of it.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
If you bust and they care, they will follow you. When you land they will call the airport where you landed and say "Who just landed?"
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That's done with unknown targets. There's no need for it with targets that have been radar identified.
 
Your probably good...NASA form a must. 99% of the time if they don't say anything your good .
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
If they do come after you tell them you are a new pilot and were changing your altimeter setting and rolled it the wrong direction and didn't catch it. (not sure if that would actually work but my understanding is they get your alt from the transponder sending it from that gauge)
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You bet ..only confess to the best version of the truth that they can't disprove. I have watched several feel a need to bare their soul to government officials ...and they needlessly got f ***ed in return. I'm all for being honest but be mindful of how much honesty you put in the hands of some folks.
 
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While ifr training at kads I heard a guy getting vectors. Dude ignored a vector and went straight into the bravo. The controller notified him saying he broke a federal rule blah blah blah and gave him a number to copy right then and there. I have no experience with this at all but that was what I heard unfold on the radio. I bet you will be fine and it went unnoticed.
 
If the controller had time to work you for flight following, the controller also had time to comply with FAA Order 7110.65:

2​
​
​
​
−1−26. PILOT DEVIATION NOTIFICATION​
When it appears that the actions of a pilot constitute​
a pilot deviation, notify the pilot, workload​
permitting.​
PHRASEOLOGY​
−​
(Identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION ADVISE​
YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number).​
REFERENCE​
−​
FAAO 8020.11, Aircraft Accident and Incident Notification,​
Investigation, and Reporting, Para 84, Pilot Deviations.
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If you haven't heard about it yet, you're not going to. But filing the ASRS report containing your analysis on how it cam to occur and how you could prevent it in the future is still a useful safety action.
 
gprellwitz said:
Well, I will be the first to say it. File a NASA report. http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/electronic.html

Mark can probably address whether the computer might rat you out.
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Agree with Grant Prellwitz.

Just be sure that you don't put, "Busted B-space" in the title. The title is PUBLIC and on record. Use, "distraction near controlled airpspace" or the like.

You can file for as many incidents as you wish, and it is good as a get out of jail free card once in five years....provided you get it in short 10 days.

As Grant points out, you can do it online. Save the submission electronic receipt. Frequently the enforcement inquiry takes five weeks to arrive....you WERE radar identified, as you note.

Waayyy too late, by then.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
I have busted bravo a couple times.
How it works as far as I can tell.

If you bust and they care, they will follow you. When you land they will call the airport where you landed and say "Who just landed?"

I busted once as a solo student not paying attention and I did nothing about it. I busted once because I was in rising air and trying to descend but obviously not fast enough. I got just a few feet in the bravo and just powered to idle and got out (after that my rule changed from always fly 100 feet below to always fly 400 feet below)

The other day I may have busted and was distracted like you. I was at 3200 and in the 4000 shelf but I looked at foreflight and realized I wasn't aware if what heppend first, hitting 3200 or entering the 4k shelf.

Just for CYA, I submitted an NASA report.

I could be wrong here. I live under DFW and I can't tell you how many times I have swapped stories with guys who have busted. I think if you fly through it for 20 minutes oblivious they will come after you. I think they see VFR traffic enter and quickly get out, they will probably let it slide.

I wouldn't sweat it. Maybe submit the NASA report to make you worry less about it. If they do come after you tell them you are a new pilot and were changing your altimeter setting and rolled it the wrong direction and didn't catch it. (not sure if that would actually work but my understanding is they get your alt from the transponder sending it from that gauge)

Either way I know a lot of people who have found themselves in that airspace and none of them have seen anything come of it.

That being said, do what you can to stay out of it.
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Didn't you like very recently pass your checkride? Be carefuly holy crap.


And that advice about the altimeter is crappy. Besides, who changes the altimeter setting and then doesn't even look at what they changed it to?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I wouldn't sweat it. Maybe submit the NASA report to make you worry less about it. If they do come after you tell them you are a new pilot and were changing your altimeter setting and rolled it the wrong direction and didn't catch it. (not sure if that would actually work but my understanding is they get your alt from the transponder sending it from that gauge)
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Unregistered said:
Didn't you like very recently pass your checkride? Be carefuly holy crap.


And that advice about the altimeter is crappy.
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He may want to understand how aircraft systems actually work prior to giving advice on fabricating a fib to explain away an infraction.

Perhaps pointing out for the OP how the transponder might even care about his altimeter setting? (Hint -- start with pressure altitude)
 
Were you advised to remain outside of Class Bravo by Chicago Approach? Either way I would file the NASA as a CYA.
 
CMTowner said:
Were you advised to remain outside of Class Bravo by Chicago Approach? Either way I would file the NASA as a CYA.
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OP here. I will file the NASA.

I was not told to remain outside the Bravo (not that it matters, right?). If I remember correctly (my memory is fuzzy), I was cleared into the Bravo some time later when he cleared me to my requesting VFR altitude.

I also remember on my way back, going through the same airspace, I was approaching the Bravo at my cruising altitude (I believe I was 5,500, approaching the 4,000 shelf). The controller didn't descend me so I had to call him up and ask, "Am I cleared to enter the Bravo?" Which leads me to believe that they weren't using the runway that used that airspace that night.
 
Unregistered said:
OP here. I will file the NASA.
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Good move.

I was not told to remain outside the Bravo (not that it matters, right?).
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Right. With Bravo, you must be explicitly cleared in.

I also remember on my way back, going through the same airspace, I was approaching the Bravo at my cruising altitude (I believe I was 5,500, approaching the 4,000 shelf). The controller didn't descend me so I had to call him up and ask, "Am I cleared to enter the Bravo?"
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Good heads-up move.
 
Sorry I'm late to the party guys.

To the OP, unless the controller told you to call, let it go. Even with radar identified targets, there is no special "snitch" that goes off when a radar identified target violates the bravo. If you were cleared into the Chicago bravo, then my guess is you were right: not busy, or on the non-busy side of airspace. It's tough to be VFR and in the bravo in Chicago. Too much traffic moving around to allow joe blow in his 172 to deviate even 100 feet from altitude or 10 degrees from heading. So most don't allow it for that reason.
 
I did the same bust just because my 235 was a happy airplane taking off from Schaumburg on a cool day...and my yoke mounted GPS had a bad antenna port that I was trying to fix. I probably clipped the 1900 shelf by 200 feet and under 1 mile in.

I filed a NASA report and never heard about it.

As Bruce says, say it was inadvertent and your attention was diverted.
 
I was also on FF with chicago coming home from OSH and nicked their airspace. I was given a vector to remain clear of bravo, followed instructions and heading. A few min later controller advised me of bust and gps showed us right on the border. A quick apology, corrected heading, and continued on. File the nasa report and print a copy for your records.
 
Mike5250 said:
I was also on FF with chicago coming home from OSH and nicked their airspace. I was given a vector to remain clear of bravo, followed instructions and heading. A few min later controller advised me of bust and gps showed us right on the border. A quick apology, corrected heading, and continued on. File the nasa report and print a copy for your records.
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I wouldn't worry about that one. Proving the airspace bust would also prove the controller was inept.
 
MarkZ said:
How did you arrive at that theory?
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Simple logic. ATC gave him vectors to keep him outside of Class B airspace. While following ATC instructions he entered Class B airspace. Lousy job of vectoring.
 
roncachamp said:
Simple logic. ATC gave him vectors to keep him outside of Class B airspace. While following ATC instructions he entered Class B airspace. Lousy job of vectoring.
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Well that is certainly one way to look at it. I disagree with your opinion.


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A 200 foot incursion without ATC saying anything could easily be attributed to altimeter/encoder error. If they noticed and thought it was a problem ,they'd mention it to you, file the NASA report and forget about it. :rolleyes: Just be more careful.:D
 
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