Wife's Pro Rata share

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

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Jaybird180
Ha ha...but seriously, DPE, during my private ride, asked me questions about compensation which I knew the term. He threw something out about my wife's share (half-jokingly). Now I'm wondering if I really understand the concept.

If I as a private pilot fly my wife and another person, do we pay 1/2 or 2/3?
 
Oh good god.

Just do whatever you can get the other guy to agree to and don't tell the FAA.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Ha ha...but seriously, DPE, during my private ride, asked me questions about compensation which I knew the term. He threw something out about my wife's share (half-jokingly). Now I'm wondering if I really understand the concept.

If I as a private pilot fly my wife and another person, do we pay 1/2 or 2/3?
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This doesn't really matter. Technically, you would pay 1/3, your wife would pay 1/3, and the other guy pays 1/3. Realistically, it can be whatever the hell you want to do, including $0, and no one's gonna ever find out.

But, if you really want to go down that path - you pay 2/3.
 
I got to thinking about this a bit more and I think we need a really complex algorithm to handle the following issues:
1- The amount of fuel used goes up as weight goes up, so the algorithm should account for the weight of whoever you're splitting costs with.
2- Some costs can be accounted strictly hourly (e.g. oil) and split evenly
3- Some costs are fixed and get cheaper per hour the more flying you do (e.g. hangar, annual) so you'd have to project the amount of flying for the year and split that. Or, and I'm just spitballing here, your could claim that your buddy paying for fixed costs is not receiving compensation for flying, since those costs have nothing to do with the flight.
4- Some costs are semi random (e.g. OVERHAUL!, its always a surprise), the algorithm could randomly charge your buddy for an overhaul.
 
SkyHog said:
This doesn't really matter. Technically, you would pay 1/3, your wife would pay 1/3, and the other guy pays 1/3. Realistically, it can be whatever the hell you want to do, including $0, and no one's gonna ever find out.

But, if you really want to go down that path - you pay 2/3.
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The pro rata share rule only applies to the pilot.
He is required to pay 1/3 (in this case), but there is no requirement that the passengers also individually pay a pro rata share. The remaining 2/3 can be split any way you wish, including the other guy paying the full 2/3.

If you and your wife share finances, I suppose someone at the FAA with a grudge against you could claim that if you only paid 1/3, half of that was for you and half for your wife - making you in violation. I don't know the legalities behind such an argument, but I would hope that the FAA folks have better things to do with their time than trying to make that claim.

If you're paranoid and want to avoid that possibility - as noted above, you pay 2/3.
 
Of course, if the third party pays 2/3, then that person has given your wife a gift with a value of 1/3 of the cost. Will your wife have to pay taxes on that?

Seriously, the FAA legal issue is that the pilot must pay no less than his/her own pro rata share (1/3 in the example), and what everyone else pays beyond that isn't the FAA's concern as long as there's "common purpose" for the flight. And, as mentioned above, as long as nobody complains, the FAA won't hear about it anyway -- they have a lot better things to do with their time than go around asking every passenger they see getting out of a 172 how much they paid for the ride.
 
To further confuse, what if the aircraft in question requires two crewmembers, and the PIC and SIC are married?! What if husband and wife are both rated pilots and the husband wears the foggles and is sole manipulator, and the wife acts as safety pilot and legal PIC?!!?
 
spinfire said:
To further confuse, what if the aircraft in question requires two crewmembers, and the PIC and SIC are married?! What if husband and wife are both rated pilots and the husband wears the foggles and is sole manipulator, and the wife acts as safety pilot and legal PIC?!!?
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And what if they try to take off from a treadmill but cannot get airborn? Can they get the entire cost from the passenger, since they didn't actually fly? :idea:
 
COFlyBoy said:
I got to thinking about this a bit more and I think we need a really complex algorithm to handle the following issues:
1- The amount of fuel used goes up as weight goes up, so the algorithm should account for the weight of whoever you're splitting costs with.
2- Some costs can be accounted strictly hourly (e.g. oil) and split evenly
3- Some costs are fixed and get cheaper per hour the more flying you do (e.g. hangar, annual) so you'd have to project the amount of flying for the year and split that. Or, and I'm just spitballing here, your could claim that your buddy paying for fixed costs is not receiving compensation for flying, since those costs have nothing to do with the flight.
4- Some costs are semi random (e.g. OVERHAUL!, its always a surprise), the algorithm could randomly charge your buddy for an overhaul.
Click to expand...

Items 3 & 4, fixed costs, engine reserve, insurance, hanger etc can not be counted in the pro-rata share. I'm sure you were speaking "tongue-in-cheek".
 
What if 3rd person fails to show before departure time and plane departs without them onboard?
 
Challenged said:
What about passengers under the age of 18?
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There is no distinction in the regulation about the age of the passengers.

Let's say a buddy of yours decides to tag along with you, your wife and your munchkin on a trip to the beach...

He can, legally, pay 75% of the standard costs (fuel, oil, etc.)

The regulation does not say anything about who should/can pay. It simply says the pilot must may not less than his/her pro-rata share. It does not say that individual passengers cannot pay more than their pro-rata share...provided the pilot kicks in his/her piece, and you have a common purpose, you're legal.
 
BillTIZ said:
Items 3 & 4, fixed costs, engine reserve, insurance, hanger etc can not be counted in the pro-rata share. I'm sure you were speaking "tongue-in-cheek".
Click to expand...

Well, yes it was tongue-in-cheek, but it is still worth discussing.

So a private pilot must pay a pro-rata share of what? The direct moving costs? What if its a rental and the rental fee includes some portion of the fixed costs? The pilot would pay his/her pro-rata share of the rental fee. Should that change if the pilot happens to own the plane?
 
Chip Sylverne said:
This runs contrary to everything I've learned about women since the age of 15.....
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Good one. :rofl:

OTOH, we are talking of a husband wondering what to 'charge' his bride. He's on thin ice simply by asking. With his daring question in mind, I suggested he start from the maximum as a point to begin negotiations. Of course he will lose but the decision is his how far he is willing to take this.
 
COFlyBoy said:
Well, yes it was tongue-in-cheek, but it is still worth discussing.

So a private pilot must pay a pro-rata share of what? The direct moving costs? What if its a rental and the rental fee includes some portion of the fixed costs? The pilot would pay his/her pro-rata share of the rental fee. Should that change if the pilot happens to own the plane?
Click to expand...

Yes, pro rata of the rental fee, and yes, I'm sure a rental fee includes capital costs.

And yes, it changes when you own the airplane. :sad:
 
Serious question, I don't follow the math of more than share. If the pilot pays his full share, the only remainder is the balance. Otherwise someone is pocketing something extra.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Serious question, I don't follow the math of more than share. If the pilot pays his full share, the only remainder is the balance. Otherwise someone is pocketing something extra.
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Just slap the money down, let the women worry about the calculators.
 
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I'll ask this way then I'm leaving it alone (hoping I get a real answer).

Pilot A and Pilot B go on a trip. Both are PPL. Pilot B brings his wife. B being such a stickler, last week had a spider bite that gave him flu-like symptoms, so he put his medical on the shelf but forgot where (wife took it).

W&B determined that B sit backseat.

At the end of the trip...

(forgot to mention that both A and B are relentless cheapskates)

At the end of the trip, the bill is $300. Who pays what?
 
It does not matter if pilot B is in the back seat with no medical.
What matters is, what did the two pilots agree to. Split the costs and split the flying?
With no medical, he can still "pilot", he just cannot be "acting PIC". Of course he can not pilot from the back seat. So what is their agreement?

The rule is that Pilot A has to pay "at least" his pro rata or at least 1/3rd.
He can pay it all, he can pay 1/2, or he can pay 1/3rd.
 
I was trying to understand the concept before the jokesters took over
 
Jaybird180 said:
I was trying to understand the concept before the jokesters took over
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X people in the airplane. There is a common purpose for the flight.

Pilot has to pay at least 1/X of the direct cost (rental, fuel, oil).

Other people can pay up to (X-1)/X of the direct costs.
 
So how does this work in a joint property state?
 
Jaybird180 said:
I'll ask this way then I'm leaving it alone (hoping I get a real answer).

Pilot A and Pilot B go on a trip. Both are PPL. Pilot B brings his wife. B being such a stickler, last week had a spider bite that gave him flu-like symptoms, so he put his medical on the shelf but forgot where (wife took it).

W&B determined that B sit backseat.

At the end of the trip...

(forgot to mention that both A and B are relentless cheapskates)

At the end of the trip, the bill is $300. Who pays what?
Click to expand...

Pilot A pays $100. Wife pays $100. Pilot B pays $100.
or:
Pilot A pays $300. Everyone pays $0.
or
Pilot A pays anything at least $100, wife and pilot b divide as they want.

Really, as long as pilot A pays $100 (the prorational share) or more, the rest is irrelevant.
 
What if the passenger has a baby 1/3 of the way into the flight? Does he get to pay 1/4 for the whole flight? Or does he get to pay 1/3 for the whole flight, and then send the passenger a bill for afterbirth cleanup, or does he get to pay 5/18th of the total cost?
 
EdFred said:
What if the passenger has a baby 1/3 of the way into the flight? Does he get to pay 1/4 for the whole flight? Or does he get to pay 1/3 for the whole flight, and then send the passenger a bill for afterbirth cleanup, or does he get to pay 5/18th of the total cost?
Click to expand...

Personally, I like to carry at least one pin with me, that way I can claim all of the angels dancing upon the head of the pin as passengers, and reduce my pro-rata share considerably.:yes:
 
EdFred said:
What if the passenger has a baby 1/3 of the way into the flight? Does he get to pay 1/4 for the whole flight? Or does he get to pay 1/3 for the whole flight, and then send the passenger a bill for afterbirth cleanup, or does he get to pay 5/18th of the total cost?
Click to expand...

What if I believe life begins at conception? Can I get my passenger pregnant in the middle of the flight so I only have to pay 1/4? What if I later find out she's having twins, do I get a refund of 1/20th of the cost?
 
shenanigans said:
What if I believe life begins at conception? Can I get my passenger pregnant in the middle of the flight so I only have to pay 1/4? What if I later find out she's having twins, do I get a refund of 1/20th of the cost?
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Think big, man! Octomom!!!

Would it be possible to have so many children that the FAA deems you are being compensated for the flight? :goofy:
 
Jaybird180 said:
I was trying to understand the concept before the jokesters took over
Click to expand...
Read how the regulation is written; Pilot (you) may not pay less than....

FAA doesn't care who is related to who, how many babies one has conceived or how many teeth they have. Heck, thay don't even care if you don't charge anything to your passengers, cheapskate status notwithstanding. All the FAA cares about is you not be doing these flights for compensation.
 
New twist:

What if the wife and a friend want to go somewhere that I have absolutely no interest in going but I go along for the flight time in my logbook and because I want to keep a happy home. How much then do I have to pay?

Can I make the friend pay for all of it because of the pain that I must endure:mad2:
 
Jaybird180 said:
What if the wife and a friend want to go somewhere that I have absolutely no interest in going but I go along for the flight time in my logbook and because I want to keep a happy home. How much then do I have to pay?
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The whole tab. But if your marriage is like mine, you were going to pay, anyway.

Can I make the friend pay for all of it because of the pain that I must endure:mad2:
Click to expand...
Make your wife's friend pay and the pain you'll endure at home later will be even worse.
 
COFlyBoy said:
Well, yes it was tongue-in-cheek, but it is still worth discussing.

So a private pilot must pay a pro-rata share of what? The direct moving costs? What if its a rental and the rental fee includes some portion of the fixed costs? The pilot would pay his/her pro-rata share of the rental fee. Should that change if the pilot happens to own the plane?
Click to expand...

The details are in 61.113.

Bob Gardner
 
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