Wide Runway Issue

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bigblockz8

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Gore
I'm having trouble landing on a wider runway. I'm used to a 40ft runway and I know I need to be able to adapt. I simply cannot get center line! I either land on the left or right side in the middle or what mentally is a 50ft wide runway. I've been flying with friends (no CFIs) at KFDK which has a 100ft runway. When they let me land I always land this way!

One reminisced that he too had this issue. The odd thing is that I learned to land at this same airport on the same runway in the same 172SP. It isn't the G1000, isn't the extra 20hp, and isn't the new tower. I started my flying at KFDK and when I left for W00 and it's 40ft runway I had trouble but after three landings I was fine. I did 13 landings today! Had fun but Never on the centerline. Tower asked if we were practicing for a narrow runway :rofl:

I later got to fly a Cherokee. Same problem. The owner didn't mind so long as I stuck with my pretend centerline on the "40ft" runway.

Any tips? I tried to do the whole extended centerline through the yoke but I somehow kept ending up down the middle of the left or right sides. On a related note I certainly could take off down the centerline without more than a two foot drift!

I've been trying to shake off rust since I haven't had a logged flight since winter. I want to save up $ and then go for solo. This issue is bothering me. When we went back to W00 I landed perfectly on the centerline. We had a laugh about it.

Suggestions?

PS: I was in the left seat! The main a/c was a 172SP
 
Sounds like maybe you are still referencing one edge of the runway (probably the left). You might be picturing 40 feet of width, starting from the left. :dunno:

Best thing you can do in general is avoid focusing on what's just ahead of the nose of the airplane- look down towards the far end of the runway as early as possible, and especially as you get set to touch down.
Another good thing is to find a long, wide runway, and drag the airplane along it as low and slow as you can, looking only at the far end of the runway, then go around and do it again. Your peripheral vision should come into play without you even realizing it, initially, and it should help you get lined up. This "trick" works even in airplanes where you can't see over the nose as you touch down., because it makes you keep your head straight and centered, so your peripheral vision will work better (that's my theory, anyway).
Referencing points inside the airplane doesn't make much sense when landing, because it's all about touching down and rolling out along a pretty long line. You may also be crabbed up until the critical moment, which will make that stuff less effective.

I didn't have much of the trouble you describe, but it sure improved when I started really looking "long", and occasionally doing low, slow passes.
My big problem in training going from narrow to wide runways (and back) was the scale illusion... flaring too high or low because I "forgot" how wide and long the runway was... but even that can be fixed by "looking long" as soon as you confirm you are headed for the intended point on the runway.
 
My wife learned at IAD which had much wider runways and her instructor always had her land on the left side of center, partially to avoid the centerline lights which were like speed bumps to the 172 gear and partially to get her use to smaller widths.

She still tends a bit to that side and if I mumble something about the centerline being out of service she's likely to hit me.
 
My CFII always complained about me landing to the left of the centerline at KBED (150' wide). He took me to tewmac, which was 26' or 28' wide. I stuck the landing on the centerline and told me "See, you can land on the centerline" and I responded "See, I can land on the centerline when it matters."
 
Rotty's got it. Look down to the far end of the runway when landing, and your brain will drag you to the middle of the runway.
 
rottydaddy said:
Sounds like maybe you are still referencing one edge of the runway (probably the left).
Click to expand...

bullwinkle said:
Rotty's got it. Look down to the far end of the runway when landing, and your brain will drag you to the middle of the runway.
Click to expand...

I had the same issue a bunch of years ago. I initially learned at CGS, which is a narrow runway similar to W00. Airnav shows it at 60 feet now, but I think it was more like 35 or 40 feet back in the day. I finished up my PPL at Craig Field in Jax, Fl (KCRG) which is 100 feet. I initially started flaring way high, but then several folks started to comment about how I never landed on centerline, even after passing my checkride. I eventually figured out that I was landing the same distance from the edge and that's what the problem was. Took a while to get out of the habit, but as mentioned, looking down the runway is the way to fix this.
 
You aren't the only one. I did most of my training on a 75' wide rwy. Then landed on a 150' wide rwy. My cfi said, "Nice landing, next time land on the centerline." I had used my peripheral vision as a guide and landed on the left side, right between the rwy edge and the centerline, what would have been dead-center of a 75' wide rwy. I eventually figured out how to work it out. (I did managed to land on the centerline of a 20' rwy with no problems, though, just that wider rwy threw me.)
 
Thanks for the tips! Feels nice to know that I'm not the only one with this issue. I do think I was looking a bit close. Next time I fly there I'll try looking down at the end. I also noticed the flare was a bit early as Rotty pointed out (added power to fix that though). Hopefully next time I can resist the urge to look down the nose and gun sight my landing.
 
Bob Noel said:
My CFII always complained about me landing to the left of the centerline at KBED (150' wide). He took me to tewmac, which was 26' or 28' wide. I stuck the landing on the centerline and told me "See, you can land on the centerline" and I responded "See, I can land on the centerline when it matters."
Click to expand...

I used to have this same problem. My initial CFI would like to poke fun at me and say that we aren't in Europe so stop landing to the left of centerline. The 150ft width at KSAC made me feel like I had the entire road to handle my business. As soon as we'd go to a narrow runway I'd hit that centerline all the time. I'll concur with Bob's rationale.

This is what I did to correct it. I noticed that landing on the 150ft runway I'd be lined up with the centerline on final and good til the flare. Once I started to transition to the flare, I wouldn't see the centerline and would allow the plane to drift because I'd neutralize the controls. The reason I was neutralizing the controls is I couldn't see the left side stripe very well and didn't know whether to correct left or right. Feeling the plane in my seat and focusing on maintaining wind correction remedied the majority of this issue for me :)
 
The advice of looking down to the departure end is correct....with a tweak. Timing is important. You can shift your vision too early or too late, which will affect the flare. The eye cannot focus on two object at different distances simultaneously, and this is a visual landing, right? Right.

To help you correct, work on getting it wrong for awhile and fix this image in your minds eye. How wrong, not much. When I had issue (I trained at W00 also) I tried to nail the centerline between my legs on taxi, takeoff and landing. Once we can purposely get this wrong then you can work on shifting the centerline to the center of the cockpit, but between the legs is a good interim step and helps with longitudinal alignment also.

Unfortunately, you also have to work on breaking up your landing into distinct approach, round out, flare and touchdown phases.

Alternate your mental focus between those exercises (centerline you can practice sometimes in the car, grocery store, sidewalk, wherever there's a line) and soon they will come together.

I made this procedure for mysel and I do not (any longer) have issues with differing runway sizes or centerline and it's now just a background thought, I can focus on other landing/ flying aspects.
 
I'd bet the OP's problem is rather common.

My home field has a 24' wide runway. Instructors have no problem teaching primary students there, but when they take them to a nearby airport with 150' wide runways, many students will land anywhere but the centerline and wander all over the place.
 
NoHeat said:
I'd bet the OP's problem is rather common.

My home field has a 24' wide runway. Instructors have no problem teaching primary students there, but when they take them to a nearby airport with 150' wide runways, many students will land anywhere but the centerline and wander all over the place.
Click to expand...
Instructors there probably need to stress that it's the centerline that you should shoot for, not a distance from the runway edge.

...which is probably hard for the student to do, since on a narrow runway all they can think about is "please God don't let me put a wheel in the dirt!" :lol:
 
Weird. When I encountered my 1st 150' runway, I flared way too high, but I was on a centerline. Happened few times. Was worse at night. I did not spend a lot of time there. But on my checkride, DPE demanded we fly there. During that, I had to fight a very strong headwind with decent crosswind component. I was thankful for the 150' because I was all over the place it seemed.
 
Bob Noel said:
My CFII always complained about me landing to the left of the centerline at KBED (150' wide). He took me to tewmac, which was 26' or 28' wide. I stuck the landing on the centerline and told me "See, you can land on the centerline" and I responded "See, I can land on the centerline when it matters."
Click to expand...

I remember that runway! Too bad the airport is gone. Now all houses I think.
 
NoHeat said:
I'd bet the OP's problem is rather common.

My home field has a 24' wide runway. Instructors have no problem teaching primary students there, but when they take them to a nearby airport with 150' wide runways, many students will land anywhere but the centerline and wander all over the place.
Click to expand...

I am completely opposite. Where I train out of is a 150ft wide runway and when I go to an airport that is 60ft I just can not land it the first time. It just seems WAY to narrow. I'm getting better at it though. I suppose it is all what you are initially trained on.
 
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