Why its important to follow the checklist.

[Aztec Driver]

Even for the little things, like after landing items.

It really IS important to turn off the electric fuel pumps before shutdown. Because on a fuel injected engine, if you turn on the master, in the time it takes to hear that the pumps are still on, and you shut them off, you have flooded the engines and it will be darn near impossible to start in under a half an hour, even with ground power assist.

And there is very little more embarrassing to the pilot, and very little more disconcerting to the passengers, than an engine that won't start because it is flooded.

I spooked the passengers so bad that when I taxiied up to within 30 feet of the hold short line for the runway in use, they both screamed that an airplane was coming right at us from the sky. Of course, it landed safely on the runway, just like it is supposed to do.

Every landing that day was smooth as silk, except, of course, the one where I had the passengers. No, that one I had to come in fast, flare, and balloon up and drop down with a thud. More of an arrival than a landing. But we can use the plane again.

This passenger must be a jinx. I have flown him 3 times, and all 3 times, something has not gone well.

There are some days I really enjoy being a charter pilot. Unfortunately, they seem to be few and far between.

 

[ajstoner21]

And there is very little more embarrassing to the pilot, and very little more disconcerting to the passengers, than an engine that won't start because it is flooded.

Tell me about it! I had a problem where I had started the plane, and saw something on the PFD I wasn't familiar with, so I shut down, went inside to talk to someone about it, and decided it was a non-issue, and when I went out to try to restart it, I had trouble.

I guess I didn't fully understand the hot-start procedure, but it was a b**** to restart. I had a fellow pilot friend with me. Someone who just got their license in a old piper warrior, riding with me (for his first time with another pilot) and (his first time in a new cessna with G1000).

I was embarrassed about it and worried that he now questioned my ability. haha.

 

[dell30rb]

There's a very good chance your passengers didn't even notice the bad landing.

I've had a few I considered pretty bad.. no bounce but a firm touchdown on the mains and the passenger actually gave me a compliment "I don't understand why airliners can't land that smooth" I guess airline arrivals are somewhat of an event..

Another, just last week I touched down smooth but definitely with a bit of crab and side loaded the gear and the mains skipped and skidded a little bit before settling down.. passenger had no idea

 

[9D9Gal]

My embarrassing story... I was taking up two friends for their maiden flight. Although I always use my checklist, I somehow neglected to lock the primer. If you have ever done this, you know that the results are ugly. The engine vibrated so badly on start up that I think a couple of my fillings were jarred loose. I quickly (attempted) to shut the engine down. I pulled the mixture, and nothing. The engine kept running. I finally was able to shut it down by turning the mags off. I had no clue what the problem was and I turned to my passengers who were pale and ashen at this point and (to their relief) told them I was sorry but we weren't going up that day. As I was getting ready to push the plane back in the hanger, I happened upon my former flight instructor and explained to him what had happened. He matter of fact said "Your primer is unlocked". Huh? No way! Not me! But sure enough he was right. With a red face I locked the primer and tried again. This time, she started right up and ran like a charm. I coaxed my very nervous passengers back into the airplane and we took off for a very enjoyable flight. They soon forgot about it and had the time of their lives.

Lesson learned.

 

[ajstoner21]

There's a very good chance your passengers didn't even notice the bad landing.

I've had a few I considered pretty bad.. no bounce but a firm touchdown on the mains and the passenger actually gave me a compliment "I don't understand why airliners can't land that smooth" I guess airline arrivals are somewhat of an event..

Another, just last week I touched down smooth but definitely with a bit of crab and side loaded the gear and the mains skipped and skidded a little bit before settling down.. passenger had no idea

Its amazing what you can feel through the pedals and stuff. I was with another pilot about to take off on a really windy day. He was the pilot. He didn't hold crosswind control to well and said we were skidding on just our taxi. I never felt it. He didn't want to fly so we canceled, and I had no problem with that decision.

 

[silver-eagle]

...SNIP... the passenger actually gave me a compliment "I don't understand why airliners can't land that smooth" I guess airline arrivals are somewhat of an event..SNIP...

Last trip was on IcelandAir 757s, 4 total. 3 of the landings were the hardest I have ever had on a commercial in what could best be described as slammed onto the runway. The last wasn't a greaser but at least I wasn't looking for my fillings after.
My last Young Eagles event, I seemed to be behind the plane and ended up either fast or slow at touchdown.
My most embarrassing moment was (apparently) leaving the alternator off after the amp check. After an hour flight, parked on the ramp of a remote airfield. After lunch, found I couldn't start the plane and had to find a mechanic. Did I mention this was Veteran's Day?
Don't just follow the checklist, make sure you complete each step.

 

[Everskyward]

My most embarrassing moment was (apparently) leaving the alternator off after the amp check.

I have done this, in a twin, at night, while receiving an instrument proficiency check. I was wondering why the electrical equipment started to fail. Good thing the first thing on the checklist for alternator failure was something like "Alternators OFF then ON".

 

[jesse]

I have done this, in a twin, at night, while receiving an instrument proficiency check. I was wondering why the electrical equipment started to fail. Good thing the first thing on the checklist for alternator failure was something like "Alternators OFF then ON".

BTDT.

 

[tonycondon]

when i was working on my training to start flying pt 135 stuff i literally had nightmares about getting passengers loaded up and not being able to get the engines started. in practice i had never had too much trouble with hot starts on the GTSIO.

 

[Ted]

when i was working on my training to start flying pt 135 stuff i literally had nightmares about getting passengers loaded up and not being able to get the engines started. in practice i had never had too much trouble with hot starts on the GTSIO.

I've found that hot starts really aren't nearly as bad as most people make them out to be. Each aircraft has a trick (or two), and if you know those tricks, you're fine.

 

[John Baker]

Back in the olden days, there was a machine that you could use to write letters, it was called a typewriter. They were unlike a computer in that you could not easily correct your mistakes simply by pressing a key.

A very high tech item called "white out" was used to correct mistakes. It was a little bottle of white paint that had a little brush in the cap. You simply painted over your goof ups, waited a few minutes for the paint to dry, then typed right on top of the paint.

A letter was generally acceptable if it had one or two of these corrections. However, what invariably would happen is, just as soon as you corrected one mistake, you would make another, and another. After about five or six corrections, you would decide that this would be the rough draft of the real letter.

Once that decision had been made, it was amazing, the rest of your letter would be perfect, with not one more mistake or correction.

There was a reason for that, you had stopped paying attention to the negative, it was no longer important.

The same psychology could be applied to landings or with a bad luck passenger. Stop worrying about the bad ones, forget them, ignore them, they are not important for one simple reason, they are over with.

Like the letter, think about what you want to do, not what you have done.

John

 

[Meanee]

Yesterday I had my first solo cross country. And I realized, 40nm into it that my transponder is off. And reason bring, the POH checklists do not include it. So while checklists are important, lesson learned that they may not be always complete.

 

[TMetzinger]

Yesterday I had my first solo cross country. And I realized, 40nm into it that my transponder is off. And reason bring, the POH checklists do not include it. So while checklists are important, lesson learned that they may not be always complete.

And you make a good argument to build your own checklist. If you take the time to write your own, you'll be surprised where the effort will lead you - to the systems section of the manual, for instance, when you want to make a note what the tire pressure should be.

 

[Aztec Driver]

And you make a good argument to build your own checklist. If you take the time to write your own, you'll be surprised where the effort will lead you - to the systems section of the manual, for instance, when you want to make a note what the tire pressure should be.

And do you know what is ludicrous? When you have an "approved" checklist for the aircraft you fly, and it does not include all of the items from the POH, and you feel that some of these items could be important, such as the aforementioned transponder, and you add it to your checklist in the appropriate position, and you are chastised for it by the FAA for not using the "approved" checklist. You have to go through an enormous paperwork shuffle to get the new checklists "approved," so that you are allowed to use them again, even though the one you made is more accurate and more complete than the original "approved" version.

Welcome to 135 ops.

 

[denverpilot]

And you make a good argument to build your own checklist. If you take the time to write your own, you'll be surprised where the effort will lead you - to the systems section of the manual, for instance, when you want to make a note what the tire pressure should be.

Tire pressure on a C-182P is printed inside the "glove" box.

 

[skylanerg]

Yesterday I had my first solo cross country. And I realized, 40nm into it that my transponder is off. And reason bring, the POH checklists do not include it. So while checklists are important, lesson learned that they may not be always complete.

For the past twenty years I've used "Lights, Camera, Action" = strobes/lndg light, transponder, mixture, as I approach the hold line for departure. Hope this helps.

Congrats on your first solo x-crountry. Have you posted a detailed debriefing for us?

 

[xaminmo]

It really IS important to turn off the electric fuel pumps before shutdown. Because on a fuel injected engine, if you turn on the master, in the time it takes to hear that the pumps are still on, and you shut them off, you have flooded the engines and it will be darn near impossible to start in under a half an hour, even with ground power assist.

I had the inverse problem during my primary training. IO-360-M1A required the aux pump for a hot start in TX. It's been on the ground for less than 30 mins, and not leaving the aux on the whole time prior to and during start just lead to vapor lock. Engine did-not/would not flood.

 

[Meanee]

Congrats on your first solo x-crountry. Have you posted a detailed debriefing for us?

Not yet, been busy. I might, later on. It was not very exciting. I flew this route few times already with my CFI. The airspace is very simple. Departing under a layer of C and landing under a layer of B. Other than transponder issue, nothing exciting happened. I had to dodge few birds, and while at altitude, practice some forward slips.

 

[Jaybird180]

Yesterday I had my first solo cross country. And I realized, 40nm into it that my transponder is off. And reason bring, the POH checklists do not include it. So while checklists are important, lesson learned that they may not be always complete.

IfI did this, I'd be treated to a free lesson on formation flying. No thanks.

And you make a good argument to build your own checklist. If you take the time to write your own, you'll be surprised where the effort will lead you - to the systems section of the manual, for instance, when you want to make a note what the tire pressure should be.

I agree with making your own. Some checklists are so retarded they become useless, no flow whatsoever. Then there are checklists like the DA40 that omit information from the POH marked with things like CAUTION or WARNING or wording as such that doesn't make it into the checklist. Geez.

 

[AggieMike88]

I agree with Tim on the value of creating your own checklist.

On mine for the Warrior III, I also included "side bar" items in different sections that made sense for that phase of flight. For example: a reminder of approach and landing speeds in the landing checklist.

I also have a reference page of the radio frequencies for the local fields I frequent.

 

[Melting]

Even for the little things, like after landing items.


Every landing that day was smooth as silk, except, of course, the one where I had the passengers. No, that one I had to come in fast, flare, and balloon up and drop down with a thud. More of an arrival than a landing. But we can use the plane again.

This passenger must be a jinx. I have flown him 3 times, and all 3 times, something has not gone well.

There are some days I really enjoy being a charter pilot. Unfortunately, they seem to be few and far between.

Beats the alternative. I hear some people actually have to get real jobs.

Yeah nothing like contacting departure, getting into cruise 15 minutes later, then realizing everythings off cause you never put up that last 10degrees of flaps cause you got distracted by the radio and had a "flow". thank god for checkists.

 

[xaminmo]

Yeah nothing like contacting departure, getting into cruise 15 minutes later, then realizing everythings off cause you never put up that last 10degrees of flaps cause you got distracted by the radio and had a "flow". thank god for checkists.

That never happens to me. I forget to pull off ANY flaps.

"Geez, why is my airspeed so low, and my climb so weak?"

 

[sba55]

You _need_ to make your own checklist. It's not really a choice since pretty much all factory checklists today aren't checklists - they're "how to fly the plane" lists and they are not useful as a checklist.

The Checkmate/POH "checklist" for a 172 is REALLY long. Why? Because of the legal landscape. You should know how to start the engine. Then an actual checklist would ask that you check for a successful outcome (oil pressure green, etc.) after you have started the engine. My own checklist for a complex and pressurized plane from start-up to shutdown fit on less than one sheet of paper. Surely, flying a 172, for example, doesn't require multiple pages.

 

[xaminmo]

Yah, the third party and MFR checklists are legal documents.
Personal checklist is for safety.
Condense what you won't forget, and reiterate what you will.

But then there's the trick of having the checklist somewhere you'll remember and/or see it when you need it most. I think I need a clip mounted to the panel.

 

[Ghery]

That never happens to me. I forget to pull off ANY flaps.

"Geez, why is my airspeed so low, and my climb so weak?"

Yeah, a 180 hp C-172N with 30 degrees hanging out in the breeze doesn't climb with much airspeed, does it? Or so a little birdy told me once.

 

[dmccormack]

Yeah, a 180 hp C-172N with 30 degrees hanging out in the breeze doesn't climb with much airspeed, does it? Or so a little birdy told me once.

A 145 HP C172 with 40 degrees does even worse!!!


A 65 HP Aeronca Chief with carb heat applied loses lots of takeoff power...

 

[tonycondon]

what altitude are you flying Ghery? My experience is that a 160 hp 172N with full flaps will climb, slowly, with 2 aboard and mostly full tanks. But that is in the midwest at field elevations of ~1000-1500.

 

[Ted]

Yeah nothing like contacting departure, getting into cruise 15 minutes later, then realizing everythings off cause you never put up that last 10degrees of flaps cause you got distracted by the radio and had a "flow". thank god for checkists.

Which is relatively benign compared to "Forgot to put gear down on landing."

 

[Fearless Tower]

Speaking of why it is important to follow the checklist:

SWA MDW overrun factual report released...apparently they forgot to arm the speedbrakes:
http://dms.ntsb.gov/public/51000-51499/51108/474638.pdf