Why is this a terrible idea?

infotango

infotango

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
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817
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Seattle, WA
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Display name:
rob!
I am a pre checkride student, everything is done except the pre-checkride phase checks and of course the ride itself. Now I’m thinking I don’t really have all that many people who’d want to ride with me in a plane anyways, and I really don’t need a PPL all that soon, so maybe I won’t even bother getting the PPL at all. Its not like I really will find being a VFR only pilot all that useful around the northeast anyways. Basically I just love taking a plane out for a few hours on sunny afternoons, and practicing touch and goes or doing some local flying and maneuver practice. Occasionally when the weather is super nice I like to take a solo xc to visit friends, but this doesn’t happen all that often anyways. I have a weekly budget that I allow for flying. So if I decide to get the PPL I’m looking at spending some extra 700 dollars between rental of planes and instructors for the phase checks, and the examiners fee. If I get the thing I won’t be able to fly for a month or so because I’ll have burned up all my flying money. I’m also worried that I won’t keep flying after that break. Right now I’m thinking about just flying a hour or so each week and start taking training for IFR. What I’m asking is, is this insane? Do I really need a PPL? Anybody go through this before?
 
Well, you NEED a PPL before you can qualify to get your IFR, for one thing.

You need 50 hours PIC cross country time, minimum.
 
If you are as close to finishing as you say, quitting now would be like dropping out of school a week before graduation.
Finish it up! Get your ticket! I promise you'll be glad you did. You are probably just going through checkride jitters and need to discuss this with your instructor.
Bill CFI/IA
 
Definately get your PPL done as it's such a milestone in your training and I'll bet you'll use it!

The FAA had a pilot test training program a few years back where the flight students got their PPL and IFR simultaneously, which seems like a good option but, I've heard nothing more of it since.
 
For one thing, I think you will very quickly find the restrictions on Student Pilots (sign-off every 90 days in each make/model you fly, sign-off for every single XC flight, etc) will become unbearably onerous. Also, insurance companies are very suspcious of Student Pilots with more than 100 hours or so, and generally either refuse to insure, charge higher rates, or require that they complete the private in 90-180 days or face cancellation. Finally, one of the prerequisites for getting the IR is having a PPL, so the instrument rating is out if you don't finish.

Given the description of the flying you like, you sound like an ideal candidate for the Light Sport pilot certificate. Had you thought this way and discussed this when you started flying, you could probably have gone that route had that certificate already, and saved a lot of money. But now you're only three hours short of your Private, so it's easier and cheaper to finish that (and have all the LS privileges included) than to changes horses (including taking another knowledge test) this close to the other side of the stream.
 
So, what...are you planning on staying a solo student forever? Note in part 61 the expiration date of your student license. It requires an instructor to extend it. Good luck finding an instructor that will continue to sign off on that if you are not actually working towards your license!

Or are you looking at going the sport pilot route? Have you looked at the restrictions?!? :eek: Again, no PPL, no IFR.

You could consider asking your instructor to switch you to a part 61 syllabus which would eschew the need for stage checks, of course the hours minimum would go up a bit.

My advice...gather yourself for the final push, and then push ;)
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
The FAA had a pilot test training program a few years back where the flight students got their PPL and IFR simultaneously, which seems like a good option but, I've heard nothing more of it since.
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The FAA/Industry Training Standards (FITS) program is alive and well, and the first two cadres of the test program at MTSU have earned their PP-ASEL-IA certificates (although they did so under an FAA exemption from 14 CFR 61.65(a)(1)). Total training time is stunningly low -- average about 88 hours in the all-airplane first cadred, and around 70 hours flight time (plus about 20 hours sim time) for the second cadre that used both airplane and sim (thanks to Frasca's specially built DA-40/G1000 FTD's). Flight schools around the country are lining up to have FITS syllibi approved by the joint government/education team authorized to approve them. For more, see the FAA web site.
 
Even if you finish, and never fly again, you'll have finished.

Very few people take up the challenge of learning to fly.

Fewer finish.

Go on. Join the club. :)
 
Greebo said:
Even if you finish, and never fly again, you'll have finished.

Very few people take up the challenge of learning to fly.

Fewer finish.

Go on. Join the club. :)
Click to expand...
Exactly what he said. You have no clue how many people yearn to be in your shoes, so close to the prize. I took a month off from work and school and 4000$ and just went the distance, and though I may only fly once a month, or even less sometimes (this past winter a key example), I wouldn't go back and change that for the world. Get it done and be proud of your accomplishment!
 
As a student pilot, you will be forever "on a leash" with an instructor at the other end.
Having a PPL is a kind of freedom that words simply cannot describe. Cut the leash!
(Besides, then you can fly through New York's airspace and other fun stuff!)

--Kath
 
Greebo said:
Even if you finish, and never fly again, you'll have finished.

Very few people take up the challenge of learning to fly.

Fewer finish.

Go on. Join the club. :)
Click to expand...
Exactly. Finish and do something that so many have not and never will. I talk to my neighbors and they talk about flights the made - on commercial airliners. I talk about flight I've flown. No comparison

Big difference.
 
Egads, finish it! The president of my wife's company came as close as you can to geting the license and has regretted it since. (His checkride was scheduled for 9/11/2001, and his wife said flat out that he wouldn't take up the sport again.)
 
Info,

You need a good dose of Sun 'n Fun (or Oshkosh) to get over the winter weather (non-)flying blues...

www.sun-n-fun.org

www.airventure.org

That'll give you a good idea of the options available to you in flying beyond just burning holes in the sky in a rental 172.

Flying is at once a very personal thing and a very large community activity. Not unusual to have doubts about maintaining proficiency, that's what CFI's are for. I had big doubts right in the middle of my first power on stall. I laid out a year after I sold my first plane. But the withdrawal was worse than the expense of renting, so I went the rental route for many years. I fly as much as I can afford and wx permits, both constraints are frustrating, but that is where I am.
 
Info, you ask, "Do I need a PPL?" I suggest the better question is, "Will I at anytime in my future need a PPL?"

If you do not complete the PPL, the knowledge you have now will either expire or just fade away from disuse. There are real costs involved.
--You will have wasted that time and money invested to get this far.
--You will incur new costs when you decide you do need a PPL.

Off hand, I can think of numerous scenarios where you would be glad you had the PPL in your pocket.

Get 'er done and join the brotherhood. Whatever it takes.

To answer your other question; yes, I sometimes had felt that it wasn't worth it. Staying focused (there's that 'whatever it takes' again) helped me snap out of it. Maybe it's just that pesky devil on your shoulder talking.
 
Finish up and join us at our northeast fly-ins for breakfast or lunch. They're a good excuse to go flying. As far as VFR, I fly around the northeast VFR all the time. It can be done. You're out in NJ, right?
 
Thanks for all the support guys. I'm doing it! Somehow the thought of getting that endorsement for years and years doesn't sound very enticing....

Toby, I really really did want to come to your LNS flyin, and I was hoping to have been finished with this by then. For a whole variety or reasons I the check ride has been moved more and more forward. I guess it will still take some time with two whole days (which I just found out about) required for a phase check, and the ride itself.

Yep out of NJ, CDW but I live in the big city.
 
Good for you - you won't regret it!

Come to think of it, I REALLY need to schedule some time with a CFI and get my butt back in the air and get my BFR renewed. If I can get it done by the end of march, that will get my medical and my bfr both in my birth month, making it easy to remember when I need to do certain things. :)
 
Just before I finished up, there was this period which seemed like an eternity where I just needed one more phase check... and then just one more flight... and then just one more phase check for the part 141 requirements... and then just one more this or that... Ugh, it was infuriating to be "almost there" for so long. But hang in there! It'll get done!

--Kath
 
infotango said:
Thanks for all the support guys. I'm doing it! Somehow the thought of getting that endorsement for years and years doesn't sound very enticing....

Toby, I really really did want to come to your LNS flyin, and I was hoping to have been finished with this by then. For a whole variety or reasons I the check ride has been moved more and more forward. I guess it will still take some time with two whole days (which I just found out about) required for a phase check, and the ride itself.

Yep out of NJ, CDW but I live in the big city.
Click to expand...

Good for you! One advantage not mentioned so far (AFaIK) is that once you have the PPL, you can log all time spent as the "sole manipulator" in any ASEL under 12,500 lbs MGW. Without the certificate you can't log anything except instruction received and solo. With it you get to log little bits and pieces when you have the opportunity to fly with someone else in their airplane. You don't even have to be endorsed for HP/Complex to log time in them.
 
lancefisher said:
Good for you! One advantage not mentioned so far (AFaIK) is that once you have the PPL, you can log all time spent as the "sole manipulator" in any ASEL under 12,500 lbs MGW. Without the certificate you can't log anything except instruction received and solo. With it you get to log little bits and pieces when you have the opportunity to fly with someone else in their airplane. You don't even have to be endorsed for HP/Complex to log time in them.
Click to expand...

Lance, does that apply to a PP without a current valid medical?
 
I know what it's like to hit the wall towards the end. All the requisites were done. All I needed was a little modivation. 2003/100 years of flight/and a friend who said "You NEVER finish what you started!". 3 years, a plane, and a whole bunch of hours all over the North East and NC later, I'm having a ball.
It's hard to believe the people who will fly as well as those who wont fly with me.
If it's about what to do after the PPL, fly for fun. Go places you haven't been (mine was Nantucket Ma and Block Island RI). If that's not enough, join Angel Flight, CAP, or the Coast Guard Aux and fly for a reason.
Aviation is a great hobby and opens up a whole bunch of destinations within a two or three hour flight.
 
lancefisher said:
With it you get to log little bits and pieces when you have the opportunity to fly with someone else in their airplane. You don't even have to be endorsed for HP/Complex to log time in them.
Click to expand...
I didn't know that. I've flown my friend's Comanche a couple of times (with him in it). On the last trip I did pretty much everything, gear and all. I thought I had to have the endorsement to log that.
 
Frank Browne said:
Lance, does that apply to a PP without a current valid medical?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. You don't have to be landing current, night current, or even have had a BFR in the last 20 years. As long as you have a certificate with the category and class (EG ASEL) of the plane you are flying, it counts as loggable PIC. All that other mundane stuff like medicals, BFRs, endoresements, etc. affect your ability to act as PIC.
 
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