Why I hate people ....

ScottM

ScottM

Taxi to Parking
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iBazinga!
..sometimes.

So Friday I go flying and return to my home airport where I will need to fill up before putting the plane away. I pull up to the pumps after announcing on the CTAF that is where I am headed. That is to give the line guy a heads up that he needs to head to to the pumps. But I get there and no sight of the lineman. We are a little airport and the line guy has about 30 jobs. I understand this and get out and start filling up my plane.

I finish up just as the line guy comes up in his cart.
He had a valid excuse and no big deal at all. So we head inside to put my stuff on account and print out a receipt that I need to be reimbursed for the fuel.

At the same time a Cirrus taxis up to the pump. He had been in the pattern with me, we had spoken as there were flocks of birds around. But as he sits there for a minute he decides it is time to complain on the CTAF about the Warrior blocking him from the pumps. That would be my Warrior, which had been there all of 10 minutes as I pumped fuel. I could have just waited until the lineman showed up and we would have just started fueling.

Geesh the guy had no patience whatsoever. What a jerk.
 
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smigaldi said:
..sometimes.

So Friday I go flying and return to my home airport where I will need to fill up before putting the plane away. I pull up to the pumps after announcing on the CTAF that is where I am headed. That is to give the line guy a heads up that he needs to head to to the pumps. But I get there and no sight of the lineman. We are a little airport and the line guy has about 30 jobs. I understand this and get out and start filling up my plane.

I finish up just as the line guy comes up in his cart.
He had a valid excuse and no big deal at all. So we head inside to put my stuff on account and print out a receipt that I need to be reimbursed for the fuel.

At the same time a Cirrus taxis up to the pump. He had been in the pattern with me, we had spoken as there were flocks of birds around. But as he sits there he decides it is time to complain on the CTAF about the Warrior blocking him form the pumps. That would be my Warrior, which had been there all of 10 minutes as I pumped fuel. I could have just waited until the lineman showed up and we would have just started fueling.

Geesh the guy had no patience whatsoever. What a jerk.
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Welcome to the new world of GA. Many, many years ago when I first started flying GA was like a gentlemen's club.

Now it's like "road rage" taken to the skies. I've seen more rude behavior around airports and airplanes at an alarming rate. You even hear it on the radio now.

That's why every time I read someone bemoaning the fact that not more people are getting involved in GA I for one am thankful more can't get involved.
 
I am with Steven on this one for sure... Just pull you plane clear so he could fuel up. Not a big deal. When I fuel up at auto fill stations I always pull clear to let the next guy get started and I then go up to the window to pay. Keeps the "system' flowing smoothly. IMHO YMMV yada yada.

Ben.
 
N801BH said:
I am with Steven on this one for sure... Just pull you plane clear so he could fuel up. Not a big deal. When I fuel up at auto fill stations I always pull clear to let the next guy get started and I then go up to the window to pay. Keeps the "system' flowing smoothly. IMHO YMMV yada yada.

Ben.
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While I am not sure what Stephen said as he is on my ignore list. Let me say that when I walked in to pay no one was even at the pumps waiting and I was inside for less than a minute when the guy pulled up and started complaining. We don't have self serve. I get away with it as I am hangar resident there. The Cirrus was a transient and he was going to have to wait for for the line guy who was with me anyways.

When I fill my car up I use pay at the pump. Pulling away form the pump would not do anything except maybe get you in trouble as a possible fill and dash suspect.
 
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Can't win 'em all. On the way out just tell him you're sorry, you didn't realize he had ice cream melting in the back seat. But then again, Cirrus drivers know their self-appointed position in the airport pecking order and expect you to know it too.

smigaldi said:
While I am not sure what Stephen said as he is on my ignore list. Let me say that when I walked in to pay no one was even at the pumps and I was inside for less than a minute when the guy pulled up and started complaining.
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For some folks, Santa has the right idea. Visit people only once a year. Victor Borge.

He sure would have been waiting a long time for me; 190 gallons and one person can't move my plane. BTW, some folks pull up behind someone in the fuel like and use that opportunity to socialize and get to know folks--tell Tiger jokes; things like that.

Best,

Dave
 
wabower said:
Can't win 'em all. On the way out just tell him you're sorry, you didn't realize he had ice cream melting in the back seat. But then again, Cirrus drivers know their self-appointed position in the airport pecking order and expect you to know it too.
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I waved and smiled at him.
 
smigaldi said:
While I am not sure what Stephen said as he is on my ignore list. Let me say that when I walked in to pay no one was even at the pumps waiting and I was inside for less than a minute when the guy pulled up and started complaining. We don't have self serve. I get away with it as I am hangar resident there. The Cirrus was a transient and he was going to have to wait for for the line guy who was with me anyways.

When I fill my car up I use pay at the pump. Pulling away form the pump would not do anything except maybe get you in trouble as a possible fill and dash suspect.
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Sorry sir. I mis-read you post. It looked to me like you were inside doing the transaction thing for 10 minutes.. If a guy would have started complaining after 1 minute I would have gone back to my plane, explained to the ****ed off cirrus guy that I had "accidentely overfueled and I needed to offload some fuel. But don't worry, it won't take more then 45 minutes.:yikes::):yesnod:
 
Hey at least you weren't cut off by some Bonanza driver doing a straight in to your refueling stop, who then proceeds to pull up to the gas pump and disappears into the FBO building.
 
Mark Twain said it best:
"I love humanity. It's people I can't stand."
 
Not Cirrus folks, evidently. In DUA last week, I left the 180 at the pump for the guy to fill while I borrowed the car and drove 5 minutes each way (15 min R/T by my watch) to get MIL. I pulled the tail handles and told him to roll it back if necessary, something I do frequently if needed.

We pulled up to the plane, threw her bags in, moved the car to the edge of the ramp (where they keep it) got the fuel receipt and buckled up. I noticed a guy and his wife milling around a fancy SR-22, and saw him looking our way a couple of times, but it was parked as though it was leaving the airport.

We were trying to get back and I had no reason to go chat. As I was finishing the pre-start check list prior to firing up (I know it's old-fashioned and the hot-shots say it's not necessary in an old tail-dragger but I do it anyway) the gas-pump guy said "that Cirrus wants to get some gas when you leave." I could have been gone a couple minutes earlier, the gas guy could have rolled the airplane back out of the way, or somebody could have said something when I returned with the passenger. None of the above occurred, and after replaying it several times to see if I screwed up I just decided it was meant to be.

I know for a fact that some nice people own Cirri, some of them are good friends. For whatever reason, I've never had a Cirrus driver want to shoot the **** at an airport. They are all just too busy doing whatever else they seem to need to do, and I'm sure as hell not going to try to get in their way.



Dave Siciliano said:
For some folks, Santa has the right idea. Visit people only once a year. Victor Borge.

He sure would have been waiting a long time for me; 190 gallons and one person can't move my plane. BTW, some folks pull up behind someone in the fuel like and use that opportunity to socialize and get to know folks--tell Tiger jokes; things like that.

Best,

Dave
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"People are no damn good!"
Sorry, can't find the reference.

I am not exactly sure what resolution is available to this one but I have been in both sitches. Waiting for some slowpoke to get outta the way because I have a time constraint, and they seem oblivious that other people even exist.......conversely, when I had to go off to the restroom or something while the lineguy filled up and when I get back, someone is fuming because I am in the way.

For some strange reason, I continue to be exposed to both sides of many types of controversies in my life!
 
Bull***t. That's where the hose is. Folks gotta be smarter than what they're working with. Too many variables to think any single answer works every time.

kgruber said:
Simple, don't park in front of the pumps.....THAT is rude.
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wabower said:
Bull***t. That's where the hose is. Folks gotta be smarter than what they're working with. Too many variables to think any single answer works every time.
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When you're done with the hose, move the airplane. Very simple, the rule is into the wind and out of the way.
 
As previously stated, it's too complicated to apply a single rule. I called ahead to ask if the crew car was available about 1145 LCL, they said it would be on the ramp. I landed and pulled up to the pump, nobody else in sight or on the unicom. It's not a particularly busy airport. I ran the card through the machine, authorized the fuel and he was starting to pump it when I left to pick up pax.

I told him I would be back in less than 15 min, and if the plane was in the was to just roll it back (and extended the pull handles to make it easy. I parked at an angle that would clear the pump easily. He said no prob, so I did the quick turn to MIL's house and brought her back. We didn't delay, and there was no evidence the -22 guy wanted fuel.

Is mind-reader part of the credentials I should carry? What would be more likely, another pilot wanting the crew car or another airplane wanting the fuel pump? Should I have stood around while he pumped, only to have another plane show up and want the car for an hour's lunch? I've never tried to inconvenience anybody or pull rank at an airport, but sometimes you've gotta go with what makes sense at the time and assume others will do the same.



kgruber said:
When you're done with the hose, move the airplane. Very simple, the rule is into the wind and out of the way.
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smigaldi said:
So where do you two suggest one stop when they want to fuel up? Or are you suggesting fueling while taxiing with a truck driving along side?
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I don't see the problem. Pull up....fuel....pull out and park. The rule is...into the wind and out of the way.

Just keep it simple. If you can't do that go to an airport with a fuel truck.
 
Lots of time it comes down to not knowing the "local customs". But it does seems rude to leave a plane at the pumps when it could be moved out of the way. Normal procedure seems to be that if you are local, fill up, move the plane back to the tie down/hanger, then return to finish up the paperwork.

I'm sure the Cirrus driver thought you were a jerk too and is probably complaining on some Cirrus board about that Warrior driver..
 
She's lived on that farm for most of her 87 years, and it's 2 miles from the local airport. You want to come tell her she needs to move?

kgruber said:
I don't see the problem. Pull up....fuel....pull out and park. The rule is...into the wind and out of the way.

Just keep it simple. If you can't do that go to an airport with a fuel truck.
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kgruber said:
I don't see the problem. Pull up....fuel....pull out and park. The rule is...into the wind and out of the way.

Just keep it simple. If you can't do that go to an airport with a fuel truck.
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Would not have mattered if I did that. He would not have gotten to the pump any sooner. He pulled up as my receipt was printing. Had I gotten in the plane to start it up and move to my hanger he would not have been able to pull up much more than 30 seconds sooner and he would not have been able to pump until the guy was done printing my receipt and cleared the pumps. Either way he was in a big hurry for no reason. I was not taking an excessive time, in fact by my pumping the fuel myself I was able to be done much sooner than if I had waited for the line guy. We would have just started fueling in that 2nd case when he pulled up.
 
I've been flying in and out of the airport regularly since 1961, and am fairly well acquainted with the "local customs." Even for those of us in the back of the class this puzzle simply isn't that hard. I wouldn't have left it if the line guy hadn't been fueling it. The Cirrus dude can tell it his way, I'll tell it mine.

NC Pilot said:
Lots of time it comes down to not knowing the "local customs". But it does seems rude to leave a plane at the pumps when it could be moved out of the way. Normal procedure seems to be that if you are local, fill up, move the plane back to the tie down/hanger, then return to finish up the paperwork.

I'm sure the Cirrus driver thought you were a jerk too and is probably complaining on some Cirrus board about that Warrior driver..
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kgruber said:
I don't see the problem. Pull up....fuel....pull out and park. The rule is...into the wind and out of the way.

Just keep it simple. If you can't do that go to an airport with a fuel truck.
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Can you please tell me where this rule is printed? Is it in the FARs, the 10C operation manual, my lease or just your head?
 
smigaldi said:
Can you please tell me where this rule is printed? Is it in the FARs, the 10C operation manual, my lease or just your head?
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It is printed in the rules of being polite.

If you want to be rude, at least show up in a jet!
 
smigaldi said:
Can you please tell me where this rule is printed? Is it in the FARs, the 10C operation manual, my lease or just your head?
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There's legal, then there's safe.

There's legal, then there's polite.

I've left the airplane for the minute it takes to take a preflight bio break, and it seems I come back to find someone waiting behind me.

I just push the Chief out of the way. With bigger airplanes, I pump, I leave.
 
Hey Mark, what's with the pics? Do you have two Westies? We have two and love 'em to death!

Best,

Dave
 
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kgruber said:
When you're done with the hose, move the airplane. Very simple, the rule is into the wind and out of the way.
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And I agree; this is my first impulse, even if I'm just going inside to pay (unless it's "right there" or whatever). There are times when you can be pretty sure nobody else will show up while you're inside, but I like to be a nice guy and move the plane.
But...not everybody sees it this way, and it's usually not a big deal to wait for them. There's many much ruder pump scenarios, like the above-mentioned pilot who parks and then disappears before fueling...:mad3:

Also,there's a polite way to check when an airplane left by the pump will be clear, and a rude way. I'm assuming this guy was rude (bitchy) about it...?
 
I pump and move my aricraft 50-60 feet, and then shut down. It's too heavy with 123 galls aboard to move by hand, unless the ramp is absolutely flat.
 
kgruber said:
It is printed in the rules of being polite.

If you want to be rude, at least show up in a jet!
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dmccormack said:
There's legal, then there's safe.

There's legal, then there's polite.

I've left the airplane for the minute it takes to take a preflight bio break, and it seems I come back to find someone waiting behind me.

I just push the Chief out of the way. With bigger airplanes, I pump, I leave.
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Ok fine. The next time I am at a pump I won't get out and pump it myself to speed things up. I'll wait for the lineman to show up then let him pump it, that way if one of you guys is behind me instead of waiting one minute you can wait 15.

rottydaddy said:
Also,there's a polite way to check when an airplane left by the pump will be clear, and a rude way. I'm assuming this guy was rude (bitchy) about it...?
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That is the point he had heard me state I pulling up to the pumps when he was in the pattern. He landed pulled right up and starting asking when I was going to move.

10C is a small friendly little airport in which many of us know each other. Often times instead of a coffee clatch there is a fuel clatch of guys standing around talking flying. This time of year there is always a fire in the FBO burning so we can sit around it and tell stories. No one ever gets annoyed with each other. We have LSA, ultralights, aerobatic planes, but no jets as the runway is far too small. 10C is what small airports are all about. This guy was a transient and was expecting large airport immediate service. The line guy that day is also the Chief CFI and airport manager. I pumped fuel because he was busy closing up a hanger for someone he had helped put his plane away.
 
kgruber said:
It is printed in the rules of being polite.

If you want to be rude, at least show up in a jet!
Click to expand...

It's awfully tempting to leave the plane at the pump until you settle the bill, visit the rest room etc and as long as you're quick the only real downside is that the next fuelee to show up will have to stop short of the pump. An easy remedy for that is to help them move both planes by hand. My cross country airplane is very difficult for one person to move by hand and I'm not fond of starting the engines just to move a few feet so if no one is around I'm likely to leave it at the pump for a short while if I'm attending to other needs, but by keeping an eye and/or ear open I can easily respond to another pilot in a minute. If I expect to be unavailable for more time than that I'll try to move the plane one way or another.

Wayne, in your case I don't see why you couldn't have rolled the plane away from the pump before heading out by car. While you did specifically delegate that responsibility to someone else, it's not obvious from your description of the events that this person actually accepted ownership of that task. If he did, then it seems that all you might be guilty of is an incorrect character judgement but if not...
 
smigaldi said:
Or are you suggesting fueling while taxiing with a truck driving along side?
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HEY!!!:rolleyes: Great Idea! But you'll need a brave & agile passenger to handle the hose while hanging on to the wing. :rofl:. Really it is either self serve, & I gas & pay w/ card & go. Or go to an FBO & the fuel truck does it. Never had a problem or caused one. Dave
 
Ddayle said:
HEY!!!:rolleyes: Great Idea! But you'll need a brave & agile passenger to handle the hose while hanging on to the wing. :rofl:. Really it is either self serve, & I gas & pay w/ card & go. Or go to an FBO & the fuel truck does it. Never had a problem or caused one. Dave
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flying_Keys

The Key brothers had no desire to see this happen, so they came up with a plan to draw attention to Meridian and its airport by breaking the standing flight endurance record of 23 days.[1] At that time, air-to-air refueling was a dangerous affair. If gasoline was spilled, which often happened, if could be ignited by the hot engine exhaust.
To solve this problem, the Key brothers, along with local inventor and mechanic A. D. Hunter, invented a spill-free fueling system that consisted of a valve on the end of the fuel nozzle which was opened by a probe in the neck of the fuel tank. The valve would not allow fuel to flow unless it was inserted into the fuel tank. During fueling, if the nozzle was removed from the tank, the fuel would automatically stop flowing. This nozzle was later adopted by the US Army Air Corps, and is still in use today with some modifications.
Refueling the plane wasn't their only concern. The engine needed regular maintenance during the flight in order to stay in good running order. To facilitate this, a catwalk was built so that Fred could walk out and work on the plane while it was airborne.
On June 4, 1935, The Flying Keys, as the brothers later became known, lifted off in a borrowed Curtiss Robin monoplane named Ole Miss from Meridian, Mississippi's airport. For the next twenty-seven days, they flew over the Meridian vicinity. Several times each day, the crew of a similar plane would lower food and supplies to the brothers on the end of a rope, as well as supply fuel via a long flexible tube. They landed on July 1 after traveling an estimated 52,320 miles and used more than 6,000 gallons of gasoline.
Their non-stop endurance flight lasted 653 hours, 34 minutes. The Ole Miss is permanently displayed in the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C..
After this historic flight, Meridian's public airport was renamed Key Field in the brothers' honor.
 
smigaldi said:
While I am not sure what Stephen said as he is on my ignore list. Let me say that when I walked in to pay no one was even at the pumps waiting and I was inside for less than a minute when the guy pulled up and started complaining. We don't have self serve. I get away with it as I am hangar resident there. The Cirrus was a transient and he was going to have to wait for for the line guy who was with me anyways.

When I fill my car up I use pay at the pump. Pulling away form the pump would not do anything except maybe get you in trouble as a possible fill and dash suspect.
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Naw. I live in a small town and the clerk knows me well and I am not a pump and dash suspect. I clear the pump area so they can rape the tourists. The more they pay the less we locals do .. :D:D:D
 
smigaldi said:
Ok fine. The next time I am at a pump I won't get out and pump it myself to speed things up. I'll wait for the lineman to show up then let him pump it, that way if one of you guys is behind me instead of waiting one minute you can wait 15.
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Scott, I would like to introduce you to a new thread.http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32994 :rofl::rofl::rofl:



The next time you are in this situation you need to pump the gas into the Cirrus, clean his windscreen, and put his bill on your tab.

Serenity now, serenity now................
 
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