Why do CFI's Discourage Sport Pilot

[flyingcheesehead]

On what planet does SPL make any sense ignoring the class III medical?

SP was a complete disservice to GA. I know a few folks got a little instant gratification but the baby was thrown out with the bath water. There is zero demand for LSAs if the class III goes away

SP makes all kinds of sense for some people. Someone who wants to fly a new airplane without spending $150+/hr on the rental rate, for example. Someone who just wants to fly for fun and doesn't need to go places fast or get there on a schedule. Someone who wants to be able to take a friend or spouse up sooner than they would otherwise, even if they do plan to pursue their Private.

In fact, Sporty's used to have all their students get a Recreational pilot certificate before the Private. That gave the students a chance to share their love of flying sooner and gain some more experience on their own to help motivate them through the rest of the training process.

This whole class-warfare thing is not helpful to aviation in the least. I hope the curmudgeons go away before GA shrivels up and dies.

 

[jimson]

Yes there is, he's cheap and wants to cut corners. Not good traits for a pilot. Also, going for SPL when a class III isn't an issue shows poor judgment and poor decision making skills. sport pilot is for people who can't get a medical, it's not a shortcut.

You sir are a complete disservice to GA, an elitist azzhat, and part of the reason GA is declining. I have no use for anyone like you. Don't ever address me again.

 

[poadeleted21]

You sir are a complete disservice to GA, an elitist azzhat, and part of the reason GA is declining. I have no use for anyone like you. Don't ever address me again.

Not being able to take constructive criticism is going to be problematic too.

You're unwilling to spend the money to prescreen for a class III. That's a couple hundred bucks. A rounding error in a flying budget. You're driving an hour out of the way to receive less training for an extremely limiting certificate "so you can get started cheaper". You want to shortcut talking to ATC, a skill that might save your life.

But, you seem to have it all figured out. Those of us who have been at this for a while and watched person after person waste their money and time on SPL are just elitist azzhats.

You claim I'm not good for GA. SPL is awful for GA. Unless you're training to fly what used to be called a 2 seat ultralight, you're not getting the cert for the reason it was intended.

 

[poadeleted21]

SP makes all kinds of sense for some people. Someone who wants to fly a new airplane without spending $150+/hr on the rental rate, for example. Someone who just wants to fly for fun and doesn't need to go places fast or get there on a schedule. Someone who wants to be able to take a friend or spouse up sooner than they would otherwise, even if they do plan to pursue their Private.

In fact, Sporty's used to have all their students get a Recreational pilot certificate before the Private. That gave the students a chance to share their love of flying sooner and gain some more experience on their own to help motivate them through the rest of the training process.

This whole class-warfare thing is not helpful to aviation in the least. I hope the curmudgeons go away before GA shrivels up and dies.

Being in a hurry to put someone in the right seat is not a good thing. I can see why sportys made people go rec pilot first. More money in their pocket. Nothing that you've mentioned (except short cutting) can't be accomplished with a PPL. Now, if you were a guy with a 2 seat ultralight and went SPL, I get that. But the no medical issues crowd somehow thinks SPL is a shortcut and will allow them to fly a mini sr22 "cheaper" and they get to pick and chose what they learn. don't like ATC? No problem just don't worry about it.

 

[AuntPeggy]

You sir are a complete disservice to GA, an elitist azzhat, and part of the reason GA is declining. I have no use for anyone like you. Don't ever address me again.

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[jimson]

Not being able to take constructive criticism is going to be problematic too.

You're unwilling to spend the money to prescreen for a class III. That's a couple hundred bucks. A rounding error in a flying budget. You're driving an hour out of the way to receive less training for an extremely limiting certificate "so you can get started cheaper". You want to shortcut talking to ATC, a skill that might save your life.

But, you seem to have it all figured out. Those of us who have been at this for a while and watched person after person waste their money and time on SPL are just elitist azzhats.

You claim I'm not good for GA. SPL is awful for GA. Unless you're training to fly what used to be called a 2 seat ultralight, you're not getting the cert for the reason it was intended.

You don't know me at all. Your idiotic assumption is tantamount to saying I am short cutting by not training to be a commercial pilot if I just want to fly PPL.

Here's the story buddy boy. I do have some medical issues, I just believe that with enough hassle and money, I could get SI's.

The aircraft I have is an ultralight, (just barely) I am not legally required to get any training at all, but I want to. I will be flying it out of a private airstrip, yes, basically burning sky circles.

That is where I am starting. SPL won't keep me from going further if I should decide to.

I am driving an hour out of my way because none of the schools at the two closer airports list SPL as an offering.

So I am saving a little money by basically eliminating hood time and ATC (WHICH I WON'T EVEN HAVE OCCASION TO USE)

I would be wasting time and money by listening to you.

I imagine there are many who have used SPL as a stepping stone to more ratings.

People like you should consider SPL the 1st level that gets people involved in aviation instead of some insult to your ego.

I'm fine with constructive criticism but you? You volunteered your unsolicited opinion and then doubled down with insulting comments.

I'll just avoid the Christmas rush and start ignoring you early.

 

[ClimbnSink]

The assumption that sp is insufficient training but pp is sufficient doesn't have any evidence to back up. Could be both are insufficient. Iirc sp for powered parachutes is 12 hours total. Zero to hero in 12 hours, our overlords seem to think that is enough. Methinks it is sucky pilots that take a lot of hours to learn and still crash that does the X hours isn't enough argument. If you have motor skills and the mental discipline to remain calm(ish) under stress flying is easy and doesn't take long to get competent at.

 

[OkieAviator]

You sir are a complete disservice to GA, an elitist azzhat, and part of the reason GA is declining. I have no use for anyone like you. Don't ever address me again.

What's your hangup with the sports pilots license? If that's what you're doing why do you care what others think? Seems you bumped this 18 month old topic for some sort of self justification and then got nasty with people who disagree with you.

In the US there's about 175,000 private pilots, 250,000 Commercial and ATP pilots.... there are 5,000 sport pilots. So obviously just from the numbers most people seem to want to get their PPL and then either stick with that or move onto bigger things. There's many reasons for it... bigger planes, more passengers, less restrictions, instrument certs... ect. If those don't interest you then good luck, but you're going to have a hard time convincing most pilots otherwise, and that doesn't make them "elitist azzhats".

 

[ClimbnSink]

Those numbers are beyond meaningless.

 

[drotto]

Those numbers are beyond meaningless.

The numbers are not meaningless, just they show that there are not that many pilots, and those that learn for the most part pick PPL over Sport. With that said for the health of GA I wish that the PPL and Sport numbers we're double that, if not more.

 

[OkieAviator]

Those numbers are beyond meaningless.

Well to me it tells me that out of the 593,499 estimated active pilots that sport pilots make up less than 1% of that population. I find it hard to believe
that it's because CFIs are talking everyone out of it. Probably more likely that there's not a huge market for it, hence the limitation of schools, or Cessna dropping their 162 ect.

 

[jimson]

What's your hangup with the sports pilots license? If that's what you're doing why do you care what others think? Seems you bumped this 18 month old topic for some sort of self justification and then got nasty with people who disagree with you.

In the US there's about 175,000 private pilots, 250,000 Commercial and ATP pilots.... there are 5,000 sport pilots. So obviously just from the numbers most people seem to want to get their PPL and then either stick with that or move onto bigger things. There's many reasons for it... bigger planes, more passengers, less restrictions, instrument certs... ect. If those don't interest you then good luck, but you're going to have a hard time convincing most pilots otherwise, and that doesn't make them "elitist azzhats".

There were people discussing the worth of sport pilot license. I simply stated why I want to pursue it and why it fits my mission.

For that, I am told I am not worthy of being a pilot and am cheap and lazy?

Hell yes, I'm going to get nasty about that.

there are 5,000 sport pilots.

That's 5000 who might not be otherwise supporting general aviation.

 

[ClimbnSink]

How many have been issued post sp existence? Yeah meaningless

 

[jimson]

How many have been issued post sp existence? Yeah meaningless

Definitely meaningless. Like saying there are more high school graduates of all ages in existence than have graduated since 2005.

We need the numbers of PPL vs SPL since the SPL category was added.

No doubt PPL is more, but SPL fills a bigger niche than just medical ineligible.

You want more PPL? change it so that losing a medical doesn't lock you out of even SPL, then for those whose SPL choice is only medically related, it's a chance worth taking.

 

[poadeleted21]

The assumption that sp is insufficient training but pp is sufficient doesn't have any evidence to back up. Could be both are insufficient. Iirc sp for powered parachutes is 12 hours total. Zero to hero in 12 hours, our overlords seem to think that is enough. Methinks it is sucky pilots that take a lot of hours to learn and still crash that does the X hours isn't enough argument. If you have motor skills and the mental discipline to remain calm(ish) under stress flying is easy and doesn't take long to get competent at.

I don't think either is "sufficient". PPL opens up sooo many more worlds for a minimal amount of "extra" training.

Let's see, drive an extra hour, pay more in rental over a clapped out C150, have a limited license, and no aircraft to rent. Even scarce amount of places withiin a 2ht drive of here won't rent you one because they give first dibs to their students to keep their CFIs employed. My buddy wasted $4K or so "doing SPL first". He was. Driving 2hrs to Jacksonville instead of renting a 172 from the airport he works at.

 

[poadeleted21]

You don't know me at all. Your idiotic assumption is tantamount to saying I am short cutting by not training to be a commercial pilot if I just want to fly PPL.

Here's the story buddy boy. I do have some medical issues, I just believe that with enough hassle and money, I could get SI's.

The aircraft I have is an ultralight, (just barely) I am not legally required to get any training at all, but I want to. I will be flying it out of a private airstrip, yes, basically burning sky circles.

That is where I am starting. SPL won't keep me from going further if I should decide to.

I am driving an hour out of my way because none of the schools at the two closer airports list SPL as an offering.

So I am saving a little money by basically eliminating hood time and ATC (WHICH I WON'T EVEN HAVE OCCASION TO USE)

I would be wasting time and money by listening to you.

I imagine there are many who have used SPL as a stepping stone to more ratings.

People like you should consider SPL the 1st level that gets people involved in aviation instead of some insult to your ego.

I'm fine with constructive criticism but you? You volunteered your unsolicited opinion and then doubled down with insulting comments.

I'll just avoid the Christmas rush and start ignoring you early.

Then were not even arguing. But your OP came across that SPL was some sort of panacea for the ills of GA. It's not, it's a waste of time for 99% of GA pilots without medical issues. SPL is great for the fat ultralight folks ( though they probably hate it since they used to be largely unregulated) and for the person who can't get a medical with a spare $150,000 in his pocket who wants to fly a mini SR22.

 

[James331]

Outside of the medical aspect...

I've trained plenty of pilots, I've had sport pilots who wished they had went the PPL route, some who have transitioned.

I've never, not once, had a PPL who wished he went the sport route instead.


The amount of training between the two is nearly identical, especially with how many sport pilots request some night and instrument training beyond the regs, over all it's a rounding error worth of diffrence.

Plus you can get your PPL in a LSA if you want.

Don't want to renew your medical, you can do everything a sport pilot can, just let that medical expire, if you're a sport pilot and want to become a PPL it's going to cost you more training and fees.

As a CFI I get paid the same ether way, I just try to give sound advised based on what I see everyday, take it or leave it, I still get paid.

 

[JHW]

think back to when you turned 16 years old and wanted to take your driver's test, and because the courthouse was closed or whatever, you had to wait an extra week to take your driver's test. Remember how unfair and life-changing that week's wait was at the time and how you begged your parents to take you to the next county to take the test earlier. Now have a chuckle about how silly that seems today.

That week waiting for your driver's license is the same thing as worrying about whether your pilot's certificate takes you 30 vs 40 vs 60 hours.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Wonder what the return rate after an a nonflying period is for pilots with a pp as opposed to those that soloed? My guess is it would be better for GA to put a sp ticket in most people's hands before life closes the door. The big sp problem is rental availability make more pilots and you have more demand. GA needs a fleet refresh anyway. A nuclear AD that grounded all the pa28s, 152s, and 172s would be a good thing once the shock wore off.

 

[James331]

Wonder what the return rate after an a nonflying period is for pilots with a pp as opposed to those that soloed? My guess is it would be better for GA to put a sp ticket in most people's hands before life closes the door. The big sp problem is rental availability make more pilots and you have more demand. GA needs a fleet refresh anyway. A nuclear AD that grounded all the pa28s, 152s, and 172s would be a good thing once the shock wore off.

Never been a fan of the 172/52/PA28s anyways.

Well minus the turbo T tail arrow, that was my first job

 

[vdehart]

I don't doubt for a second that LSA rental availability is more limited across the country but I'll tell you now that LSA rentals are abundant in the LA area.

The SP ticket has found great success at some flight schools to the point that the majority of their students are pursuing the rating. With that said, I truly believe that when the 40 year old Cessnas become 70 year old Cessnas then LSA aircraft will appeal to the masses more than ever.

How long can we continue to operate a GA fleet of aircraft from the 60s, 70s, and 80s that are expected to take the daily abuse of training new students?

PP will never disappear, but I suspect it is likely that more and more students will pursue certificates in LSA aircraft and that the LSA fleet will continue to grow with SP existing as a great entry option for people who decide it fits their mission.

 

[James331]

How long can we continue to operate a GA fleet of aircraft from the 60s, 70s, and 80s that are expected to take the daily abuse of training new students?

With proper mx and support, indefinitely.

I learned how to fly in a plane built in the late 40s, flew like a champ.

 

[jimson]

Then were not even arguing. But your OP came across that SPL was some sort of panacea for the ills of GA. It's not, it's a waste of time for 99% of GA pilots without medical issues. SPL is great for the fat ultralight folks ( though they probably hate it since they used to be largely unregulated) and for the person who can't get a medical with a spare $150,000 in his pocket who wants to fly a mini SR22.

It's not a panacea, but it is another option to broaden the appeal of aviation. I cannot rent wet an old 172 for what I can a 2006 Aerotrek 240. It may not be that way everywhere, but it is here.

 

[drotto]

The closest airport to me that does SP is about 45 minutes, I have a standard school that is 5 minutes from my house. My time is valuable, the extra miles on my car cost me gas and wear and tear on my car. Spending a little more money was worth it to be close to home. Going to an airport with Sp over the course of 40 flights would have been about 2500 extra miles on my car. Between gas and depreciation of the car that is likely about $500 (heck my work will reimburse at $0.48 per mile so about $1200). Now, even if I take an average number that would knock about $750 (fewer flights needed) of the savings off my training. If SP would have saved me $3000 that is now $2250 (accounting for fewer flights to get the certificate). It is also about 40 (again accounting for fewer flights to complete) hours of driving I did not do. The question then becomes what is 40 hours of my life worth?

For me the added money was worth it for my commuting savings, as well as the additional privileges.

 

[jimson]

Well I figured out that where I am taking lessons is only about 15 minute further than where it would be if I was going PPL.

No matter how you slice it, if the average for PPL is 65 hours and the average for SP is 35 or even 40, there is no way that it is not a significantly lower money and time investment.

So even if you can get an old Cessna for 20,000 or a newer LSA for 90,000, once it's paid for, the LSA sips inexpensive auto gas and maybe being newer has fewer maintenance issues.

Translates into lower lesson costs, at least in my case it does. Since people often have to pay as they go, it is still easier for them to afford LSA even if in the end they pay the same.

So what if it is only a stepping stone to more endorsements and other ratings?

I just don't see how anyone can say that the SPL doesn't open the world of aviation up to more people.

True, it hasn't taken the world by storm here during probably the worst economy any of us has ever seen, but as the economy improves, the final chapter may not have been written yet, especially if the 3rd class medical does remain intact.

All I can say is that after years of vacillating, I am finally doing it and if I do get my sport and later decide to go PPL, what will it cost me above what it would have in the first place? another test and check ride? and in the meantime, I have already gotten some hours as PIC?

Who knows where the journey leads? but all I know is that it is sport pilot that got me in the door.

For my mission, sport pilot seems to be the best fit. If that assessment changes, my goals will be adjusted accordingly.

If some veteran pilot is butthurt that I can now become a pilot without paying the dues and jumping through the hoops they had to, that is no concern of mine.

 

[mtuomi]

You did 10 takeoffs and landings and a night XC in 3 hours?

You are quick.

I think my night flying was 4.2 hours when I was done. We did most of the takeoffs and landings one lesson and a then went to Ocean City and back for the XC.

More like you were slow. I did mine in 3.0, flying out of a Class D, to a busy Class C, with half the landings on another busy C on the way back. We ended up doing chandelles for about 15 minutes before final full stop to hit the 3.0.

 

[PPC1052]

think back to when you turned 16 years old and wanted to take your driver's test, and because the courthouse was closed or whatever, you had to wait an extra week to take your driver's test. Remember how unfair and life-changing that week's wait was at the time and how you begged your parents to take you to the next county to take the test earlier. Now have a chuckle about how silly that seems today.

That week waiting for your driver's license is the same thing as worrying about whether your pilot's certificate takes you 30 vs 40 vs 60 hours.

This, exactly.

 

[PPC1052]

If some veteran pilot is butthurt that I can now become a pilot without paying the dues and jumping through the hoops they had to, that is no concern of mine.

If you think that the experienced pilots who counsel against the SP do so because they think everyone should have to suffer just because they did, that tells me that you simply don't know what you don't know. My concern with recommending the sport pilot route is that in reality, the amount of training to really make a proficient and safe pilot is generally not less than the minimum required to achieve the private pilot certificate. You might shave a few hours off, but not enough to make that great of a difference compared to loss in utility of the SP vs. the PP. Of course, individual needs might not fall within the norm.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Safety argument is a load of rubbish. For everyone that thinks sp training is insufficient the question is how do you know when a student is ready to solo?

 

[James331]

Safety argument is a load of rubbish. For everyone that thinks sp training is insufficient the question is how do you know when a student is ready to solo?

It's not the solo part, it's a night and instrument part, most sport students have requested they get some training "just in case" which I also think it a good idea too, end of the day it's not a 35hr to 60hr diffrence, it's far, far smaller than that.

As for the paying you're dues argument, that's the polar oppisite of why guys who have been around recommend going PPL if able, it's because ITS NOT MUCH MORE WORK OR TIME, yet but you end up with much more to show for it... A ICAO reconiginzed license to start.

Plus you add to that the time and expense of upgrading to a PPL, something most who can get a PPL end up doing within a year or two, and now you spent a considerable amount more going zero hour -> sport -> PPL.

Like I said I have no dog in this flight, just a recommendation.

 

[bflynn]

No matter how you slice it, if the average for PPL is 65 hours and the average for SP is 35 or even 40, there is no way that it is not a significantly lower money and time investment.

Where I trained, you could get our C-152 for $65 and an instructor for $25. Right next door there was an LSA shop where you could get a brand new Allegro for $115 and an instructor for $40.

$90 x 65 = $5,850
$155 x 35 = $5,425

You're right, it was $425 more for the PPL.

 

[poadeleted21]

Well I figured out that where I am taking lessons is only about 15 minute further than where it would be if I was going PPL.

No matter how you slice it, if the average for PPL is 65 hours and the average for SP is 35 or even 40, there is no way that it is not a significantly lower money and time investment.

So even if you can get an old Cessna for 20,000 or a newer LSA for 90,000, once it's paid for, the LSA sips inexpensive auto gas and maybe being newer has fewer maintenance issues.

Translates into lower lesson costs, at least in my case it does. Since people often have to pay as they go, it is still easier for them to afford LSA even if in the end they pay the same.

So what if it is only a stepping stone to more endorsements and other ratings?

I just don't see how anyone can say that the SPL doesn't open the world of aviation up to more people.

True, it hasn't taken the world by storm here during probably the worst economy any of us has ever seen, but as the economy improves, the final chapter may not have been written yet, especially if the 3rd class medical does remain intact.

All I can say is that after years of vacillating, I am finally doing it and if I do get my sport and later decide to go PPL, what will it cost me above what it would have in the first place? another test and check ride? and in the meantime, I have already gotten some hours as PIC?

Who knows where the journey leads? but all I know is that it is sport pilot that got me in the door.

For my mission, sport pilot seems to be the best fit. If that assessment changes, my goals will be adjusted accordingly.

If some veteran pilot is butthurt that I can now become a pilot without paying the dues and jumping through the hoops they had to, that is no concern of mine.

Depending on your CFI, you may have to start over from scratch to get your PPL.

$70,000 buys a lot of 100LL, a C150 will run Mogas too.

Yes, spl opens up opportunities for people who can't get a medical.

I'm not butthurt, just trying to save folks from wasting money and taking 2 check rides. Very rarely is SPL a best fit for someone without medical issues.

You won't find a rental LSA cheaper than the C150 I used to get my cert.

 

[Henning]

Not to be a smartass, but you should probably not pursue flying.

Nah, it's a good thing, we really need to rid ourselves of this nanny attitude and let people kill themselves at will. We have totally screwed up evolution keeping the stupid alive long enough to breed.

 

[Bonchie]

More like you were slow. I did mine in 3.0, flying out of a Class D, to a busy Class C, with half the landings on another busy C on the way back. We ended up doing chandelles for about 15 minutes before final full stop to hit the 3.0.

Well aren't you special.

It sounds like you did a single 3 hour flight, did a shorter XC, and crammed it all in (saving all the time on the margins it'd take to go up for a second flight). Good for you. Not everyone has airports exactly where they need to be to make that happen and not everyone wants to go up and do a 3 hour flight all at once. I fly out of the FRZ. You can't use VKX for pattern work. So it was 30 minutes down to RMN, 8 landings, then 30 minutes back. 2W5 is closer but no PAPI and trees. Next flight, it was a little over two hours to OXB and back to get the XC done.

Either way, night flying is a chunk of hours a SP doesn't have to do that one can consider in laying out their path to their ticket. That was my point. I swear, some of the things people want to argue about on here...

 

[Bonchie]

Where I trained, you could get our C-152 for $65 and an instructor for $25. Right next door there was an LSA shop where you could get a brand new Allegro for $115 and an instructor for $40.

$90 x 65 = $5,850
$155 x 35 = $5,425

You're right, it was $425 more for the PPL.

That's very, very unusual.

A 152 is going to cost you around $90 an hour wet unless it's some exception out in the sticks somewhere. Freeway has some in this area and they charge $97 an hour. There's a 150 up in Baltimore for $85 an hour I think.

Most places use 172s and those are typically $120-$150 wet. My parents live in MS and the Warrior I found to rent there is $125 an hour.

If you have a deal where you can rent a 152 for $65 an hour, take advantage of it and build a bunch of time if you need it. Because that's almost unbelievably cheap.

 

[jasstech]

I almost didn't get my PPL because I was trying to fit it in during the summer between spring and fall semesters of college. Working full-time and bad weather made me call it quits. If it wasn't for my instructor not accepting that I wouldn't be a pilot. Not everyone has an instructor so committed. Sport pilot makes perfect sense to me. Once you have the certificate it is yours. Go fly and get the extra training afterwards. Nowhere does it say you need to get that extra training prior to the check ride.

 

[jimson]

Where I trained, you could get our C-152 for $65 and an instructor for $25. Right next door there was an LSA shop where you could get a brand new Allegro for $115 and an instructor for $40.

$90 x 65 = $5,850
$155 x 35 = $5,425

You're right, it was $425 more for the PPL.

Good for you. Not the case in my neck of the woods though.

Very rarely is SPL a best fit for someone without medical issues.

I don't agree. I don't believe it usually is, but I do believe it often is the the best fit.

My CFI also does PPL so the upgrade won't be an issue if I choose to go that route some day.

By the way, are you in favor of removing the class 3 medical for PPL?

 

[jimson]

It's not the solo part, it's a night and instrument part, most sport students have requested they get some training "just in case" which I also think it a good idea too, end of the day it's not a 35hr to 60hr diffrence, it's far, far smaller than that.

As for the paying you're dues argument, that's the polar oppisite of why guys who have been around recommend going PPL if able, it's because ITS NOT MUCH MORE WORK OR TIME, yet but you end up with much more to show for it... A ICAO reconiginzed license to start.

Plus you add to that the time and expense of upgrading to a PPL, something most who can get a PPL end up doing within a year or two, and now you spent a considerable amount more going zero hour -> sport -> PPL.

Like I said I have no dog in this flight, just a recommendation.

I just don't agree with you. I believe sport is better for some people, even without the medical issues.

What if you were in a situation where you had an LSA and a private airstrip and with an SPL you could cheaply and easily build hundreds of solo hours without ever needing that utility and be much better prepared if you later did decide to get it?

If no one can see that in my case it makes sense, then so be it.

The only one who needs to see it is me.

By the way, are you in favor of removing the class 3 medical for PPL?

 

[jimson]

Nah, it's a good thing, we really need to rid ourselves of this nanny attitude and let people kill themselves at will. We have totally screwed up evolution keeping the stupid alive long enough to breed.

You may be on borrowed time.

By the way, are you in favor of removing the class 3 medical for PPL?

 

[jimson]

If you think that the experienced pilots who counsel against the SP do so because they think everyone should have to suffer just because they did, that tells me that you simply don't know what you don't know. My concern with recommending the sport pilot route is that in reality, the amount of training to really make a proficient and safe pilot is generally not less than the minimum required to achieve the private pilot certificate. You might shave a few hours off, but not enough to make that great of a difference compared to loss in utility of the SP vs. the PP. Of course, individual needs might not fall within the norm.

Mine do not.

By the way, are you in favor of removing the class 3 medical for PPL?