Why buy 'em?

Ken Ibold

Ken Ibold

Final Approach
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
5,888
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
Display Name
Display name:
Ken Ibold
I was wandering around www.aso.com and suddenly struck by the number of airplanes out there that only get flown once in a blue moon. I've seen a bunch that have averaged only 50 or so hours a year, which is probably adequate if it flew routinely for 2 hours every other week. But the one that took the cake (today, anyway) is a nice Mooney 201 that has only 237 hours since major overhaul 12 years ago.

So my questions are these: What's the minimum number of hours that would allow you to justify ownership? Furthermore, what's the limiting factor? (Cost of owning vs renting, safety of flying seldom-used airplane, atrophy of skills etc.) Finally, how dependent is your answer on using the airplane a particular way? For example, would you tolerate fewer hours if you flew often but only an hour at a time vs flying relatively seldom for long trips?
 
50 hrs a year would be the minimum level of flying if I bought a plane, the same minimum I have for renting now. For me, the only reason I don't own a plane is $$$$. I can't afford to buy one, or maintain it, right now.
 
I rent, partly for the same reason Joe is still renting, and partly because I like the guys I rent from, like the planes, and have my choice of several different rides. Of the various friends I have who fly, most seem to agree that somewhere around 150 - 200 hours per year is a realistic minimum to justify ownership over renting.

Then again... One of my wife's best friends is about to get his plane back after one of his partners badly damaged it during a hard landing with ice on board at the end of last year. He flies a lot but has not been flying during the interlude, and was really depressed about that when last I saw him. For me, if someone has damaged one skyhawk, another is available for rent. Or an archer. Or Cutlass if I want to pull gear up and down...

Jim G
 
Ken,

I've flown barely over the 50 hours a year cut off. I flew over a 100 hours a year the first few years and much more than that pre PPL.

Living in GA-friendly Ritchie country, I have a long drive to the airport to deal with so each flight is a project. As in most places, traffic gets worse and worse all the time so I've come to dread the trip. I've gotten a taste of how it could be I moved closer. Jann's new condo is only a half hour away from home base, only barely in the next county. ;)

I've had regular thoughts of taking on a partner, mainly to exercise the plane more, but I'm afraid of having to argue on decision making.

So it's mine. I'll use it as I see fit. If you have to know, it's in good shape and a very happy aeroplane, thankyouverymuch. :p

I think a lot of planes are owned by older pilots who will not be quick to recognize that their flying days, like other things, are receding into the sunset. I've watched at the airport as a lot of planes stay parked for a year or two until the owner finally throws it in and sells it. Most of those have stayed at airport with new owners. I got my current hangar slot and a previous prime tie down spot by latching onto them as older pilots gave it up.

I push myself on one hand because I don't want to see myself being in that spot one day and wishing I had flown more while I could.
 
Ken Ibold said:
So my questions are these: What's the minimum number of hours that would allow you to justify ownership? Furthermore, what's the limiting factor? (Cost of owning vs renting, safety of flying seldom-used airplane, atrophy of skills etc.) Finally, how dependent is your answer on using the airplane a particular way? For example, would you tolerate fewer hours if you flew often but only an hour at a time vs flying relatively seldom for long trips?
Click to expand...
Ken,
I suspect I'll be a great deal like my 83 year old father, who still owns his big motor home although they stopped driving it years ago. He likes it. He likes owning it. So he keeps it.
I can see me owning an airplane when I'm too old to fly much (at all?) I love 'em and, fortunately, don't feel the need to justify them anymore. I just hope I'm strong enough to stop flying them when I'm not safe to do so anymore. Many folks don't seem be able to do that.
As far as atrophy of skills, I can tell a big difference in my flying skill when my annual total time drops below about 100 hours. But that's just me. ;)
 
the minimum to justify owning is different for everyone. i have a $6000/yr hangar, and i have friends with the same hangar expense that don't fly more than 30hrs a year. can you say $200/hr just in hangar cost??? i currently fly between 170-200hrs a year. pretty amazing being we only travel with our bird a couple times a year. So far, flying is the only way I've found to keep my sanity. tc
 
Many of us could hardly justify buying an airplane. Yes, 50 - 100 or more hours per year and you may be in the realm of being able to cost justify some airplanes. The reasons to own aren't always just dollars and cents.

-It's having an airplane available when you want it.
-It's having an airplane available with which you are familiar.
-There is no minimum for overnight or XC.

But, there will always be buts:
-Insurance;
-Tie down/hangar rental;
-Fuel;
-ADs;
-Money for reserve for engine work, radios, tire replacement, battery replacement, annual, other minor repair and unknowns;
-and when it's broke, you still have to rent or go without.

Not many of us can cost justify. I couldn't even try to convince my spouse on cost justification so I could buy an airplane.

Someone with Flying or AOPA magazine recently published their experience and related expenses with ownership - within the past two years, I think.

Jim
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I walk around the ramp at my airport and I see aluminum left to rot all over the place. Fiberglass too, as there was a Cirrus SR22 special edition (the beige one from a couple of years ago) fully loaded that moved exactly 3 times in the last year, judging by the chalk marks on the nose tire. The last two times it moved was when a team of techs were busy taking it apart and when it finally disappeared for good.

For me, I had grand plans of flying a lot. But work is taking a toll on my time factor in a more unexpected way than I anticipated. Also wound up with a bum engine, so didn't get to do my IR this winter, blew through my budget and so on.

Now that I'm busy as all heck, the advantage for me as an owner is that the plane is there waiting for me. I never know when I will get time off, even my weekends can get whacked. So if a meeting gets cancelled on a thursday afternoon, I can sneak out and get an hour or two in, even if it is just going for a put around the local area.
 
Ken Ibold said:
I was wandering around www.aso.com and suddenly struck by the number of airplanes out there that only get flown once in a blue moon. I've seen a bunch that have averaged only 50 or so hours a year, which is probably adequate if it flew routinely for 2 hours every other week. But the one that took the cake (today, anyway) is a nice Mooney 201 that has only 237 hours since major overhaul 12 years ago.
Click to expand...

One of these days, AOPA or some other organization will stuff the FAA propaganda and decide to find how many hours the average GA airplane actually flies in the average year. It wouldn't be all that difficult, really. Send a stack of pre-paid post cards to every maintenance shop you can find. Offer a cash reward for every card returned with a unique & valid N-number, the date the current annual was completed, hours flown since last annual was completed, and date of last annual. Pay some high school kid to enter the data into a database. End of debate.

Unfortunately, according to several of my favorite IA's the answer will be ~15 hours.

So my questions are these: What's the minimum number of hours that would allow you to justify ownership? Furthermore, what's the limiting factor? (Cost of owning vs renting, safety of flying seldom-used airplane, atrophy of skills etc.)
Click to expand...

Why would anyone take a profit & loss approach to their life's enjoyments?
 
I probably fly more than most of the people in my row or two of hangars, and I only average about 130 hours per year. I think many that own planes fly much less. I don't have an hourly minimum to justify ownership. It really makes no financial sense, even if I flew 500 hour or 50 hours per year. The reason I own, is that its there when I need/want it and I know its condition and maintenance history.
 
Ed Guthrie said:
One of these days, AOPA or some other organization will stuff the FAA propaganda and decide to find how many hours the average GA airplane actually flies in the average year. It wouldn't be all that difficult, really. Send a stack of pre-paid post cards to every maintenance shop you can find. Offer a cash reward for every card returned with a unique & valid N-number, the date the current annual was completed, hours flown since last annual was completed, and date of last annual. Pay some high school kid to enter the data into a database. End of debate.

Unfortunately, according to several of my favorite IA's the answer will be ~15 hours.



Why would anyone take a profit & loss approach to their life's enjoyments?
Click to expand...
...........
............Because, I've found that enjoyable pursuits become that much MORE enjoyable when also profitable !
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
...........
............Because, I've found that enjoyable pursuits become that much MORE enjoyable when also profitable !
Click to expand...

Now I understand why no one enjoys being a CFI.:redface:

(That was humor, folks. I know that many people enjoy the pursuit, even if it isn't wildly profitable.)
 
Ed Guthrie said:
Now I understand why no one enjoys being a CFI.:redface:

(That was humor, folks. I know that many people enjoy the pursuit, even if it isn't wildly profitable.)
Click to expand...

Whoa guys, you're giving me a serious identity crisis here !*

Although not a "full-time" instructor or pilot, except when I give my time and expertise away, I'm highly paid as a CFI ("charlaton" to use your words, as I recall) and also enjoy it immensely, recieved advantages in hiring at my flight school by buying my way through numerous ratings while at the same highly regarded flight school, in addition to requesting additional high level training that neither the flight school nor the FAA required. In my own defense of my "charlatanistic" ways, I still have NOT bought an airplane, but in moments of weakness am repeatedly considering purchasing an amphib.

*I may need extensive psychotherapy (not cheap) to get through all this with my identity intact, and now my CFI rates will have to go up !
 
Last edited:
My spreadsheet-derived breakeven is six hours per month for a $35,000 plane (Stinson 108-2 or -3), including fuel per hour (avg'd), engine and fabric reserves, oil changes, insurance, $1000 annual, and a $1000 "play" account for any maintenance or upgrades.

If I fly less than six per month, I'd have saved money by renting. If I fly more than six per month, I come out ahead (on a per hour basis). Annualized, that's 72 hours per year.

The problem I have is that to save the money I want to have for the purchase (ie BIG downpayment), I have to fly LESS (as well as purchase fewer toys).
 
I will have to agree with Chip on this one. I don't even try to justify the cost of ownership. It is nice to know how the plane was last flown and that the person that rented the plane ahead of you did'nt damage it somehow before you. I fly at least 2 hrs a week and sometimes more if my schedule will let me. I figure it cost me about $400.00 a month for payment, hanger, insurance and fuel. If I rented it would cost about the same. It is worth the cost to me for the piece of mind knowing how the plane is flown and maintained. As for those planes that are low time and the engine has not been touched in 10 yrs, stay clear or be ready to pay for an overhaul. Most likely it is a rust bucket engine and will have very few serviceable parts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top