Why aren't more women airline pilots?

It occurs to me that the disadvantages of spending too much time away from home, lousy hotels, etc., apply to flight attendants as well as pilots. There are lots of female airline flight attendants and no matter what the discussion about pilot pay, attendant pay is less. So, there is something else keeping women out of the left seat.

Getting back to the idea that sexual discrimination has totally gone away, so that is not an explanation of poor representation of women, well, there is always the legacy effect of past discrimination reducing the ranks of today's veteran female pilots. That still doesn't address the question of what is keeping today's cohort from being 50-50. If there isn't discrimination today, then what is it?
 
Maybe this is off-topic now, but I've noticed that female professors tend to be bitchy. And I'm female, so I'm not sexist here. I've noticed many female science professors are just unpleasant *******. Did they work so hard to get where they are that they turned into super *****?

I forgot to mention the unpleasant female DPE I had for my checkride. After talking with others at the airport, this individual is known to be harder on females. My checkride was a miserable experience, and I never want to see that woman again. I don't understand why some women have to be so bitchy to other women.
Then, again, maybe sexual bias does still exist.
 
I wasn't kidding about women being too smart to fall in the pilot trap. IMO, they are much more practical, maybe even steely-eyed, regarding career choices. The marriage experts list money as one of the primary sticking points, and (again IMO) one of the reasons for the high divorce rate among pilots is that the women simply can't come to grips with the head in the clouds mentality that's part of many pilots' psyche and the resulting paychecks they bring home--or don't.

It would be interesting to compare the economics of a cockpit job vs a FA job from the get-go. Assume that two women age 18 or 22 or whatever with no prior aviation experience decide to "live the dream" and fly for the airlines. One does it with a cockpit job, one does it with a cabin job. Who is ahead after 5 years? 20 years? 30 years? How long from making the decision until they cash their first airline paycheck? If the cabin job isn't fun, how much does that woman have invested if she decides to walk away? If the cockpit job never materializes, how much time and money will that woman have ****ed away just trying to get there?

Both of them have chosen careers that are chained to a seniority number and the next CBA, but the FA didn't invest 10 years and a ton of dough to get a burger-flip-wage job. Based on casual observation, it's pretty clear that many of the FA's have decided to stick around, and apparently much longer than the pilots.

I've seen the other end of this deal hundreds if not thousands of times, and from the other side of the table. Four of the financial planning offices in the firm I headed catered primarily to airline people, most of them pilots. I reviewed their files (as required by SEC/NASD supervision rules)and talked to the RIA's who handled their advisory work. Some of the pilots did OK financially, some didn't. If they made it through the maze to the left seat, they were reasonably well-paid if you looked at their highest-earning years, but they paid the price in many other ways (working up the ladder, domiciles, commutes, lay-offs, furloughs, bankruptcies, pension plans evaporating, airline consolidations, etc.) that severely limited their life-styles during their working years, but also their net worth and retirement life-styles when compared to other professions.

Not surprisingly, all of the financial advisors were former airline pilots or engineers who had seen the writing on the wall and bailed. All of them were doing a bit better than their brethren who had stayed on the sheepskin seats.

I understand that some people simply don't want to do anything except fly airplanes, and are willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen. For those folks, good luck and God bless, I just hope they don't change their mind. For those who are thinking they might want to do it and wondering about the life-style and economics of such a move, I'd encourage them to do a lot of arithmetic and even more soul-searching before choosing that career path.

It occurs to me that the disadvantages of spending too much time away from home, lousy hotels, etc., apply to flight attendants as well as pilots. There are lots of female airline flight attendants and no matter what the discussion about pilot pay, attendant pay is less. So, there is something else keeping women out of the left seat.

Getting back to the idea that sexual discrimination has totally gone away, so that is not an explanation of poor representation of women, well, there is always the legacy effect of past discrimination reducing the ranks of today's veteran female pilots. That still doesn't address the question of what is keeping today's cohort from being 50-50. If there isn't discrimination today, then what is it?
 
Getting back to the idea that sexual discrimination has totally gone away, so that is not an explanation of poor representation of women, well, there is always the legacy effect of past discrimination reducing the ranks of today's veteran female pilots. That still doesn't address the question of what is keeping today's cohort from being 50-50. If there isn't discrimination today, then what is it?

Almost 20 years ago, I happened to be in the right place at the right time and got a job flying a King Air. But I noticed after a few months that some of the male CFI's that I used to work with started making little snide comments.... "Geee...who did you sleep with to get that ride?" "It's not who you know, its who you blow".... etc, etc. A lot of them told me I had no business flying that plane and it should be them because they were the ones that put in the time as a CFI. I never did get my CFI, I worked the desk at the FBO while training. So here I am, getting turbine time, and they are still sitting on their butts, waiting for someone to hand them a job. Even one or two of the passengers would make comments "Women drivers.....sheesh!" when we'd hit turbulence or I'd make a less than perfect landing. There would even be comments over the radio when I'd fly into a non-towered field. (Who let the stew fly the plane?etc)

back then, I had a bit of a fragile ego. Those comments hurt. I wasn't screwing anyone, I just happened to be a better pilot than the other guys that applied. But the constant comments and such just hurt so much that i would sit in the plane or in my car, and cry (yes I know, there is no crying in flying).

After the company sold the plane, I thought about applying for other jobs, but to me, the pay and the hours and the harassment just wasn't worth it.

And it didn't help that I met one female pilot who admitted to extracurricular activities to get the job. And she was a crappy pilot, probably was the only way she was gonna get flying time.

I am kinda bummed that I didn't stick up for myself. If I had the attitude then that I do now.... well, things would have been much different. :D
 
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Look up MY LOG was my diary by Jean Read McLaughlin, ISBN 978-1-4490-4572-2. Jean did a lot of my flight training. It's a pretty typical story of a mid 60's woman who was in a cloying marriage. She left him to learn to fly, met Frank, remarried.

The chapter about one of her students getting her CFI checkride at the FSDO is 100% true. BTSeenThat. That is why there are disproportionately fewer women in professional aviation. Linda is now our state Deputy Director of Aviation.

Recently I helped Jeannie load Frank into a wheelchair in the Methodist Parking Lot. It was saddening.
 
I wonder about their numbers... At the airline I worked at, there are at least 5 female captains I can think of. I'm sure there are a few more. 10% of all female captains at one airline? :confused:

10% would be 45...
 
There are lots of female airline flight attendants and no matter what the discussion about pilot pay, attendant pay is less. So, there is something else keeping women out of the left seat.
Actually that's not true. There are plenty of scenarios where the flight attendant could be making more than the pilot.
 
Look up MY LOG was my diary by Jean Read McLaughlin, ISBN 978-1-4490-4572-2. Jean did a lot of my flight training. It's a pretty typical story of a mid 60's woman who was in a cloying marriage. She left him to learn to fly, met Frank, remarried.

The chapter about one of her students getting her CFI checkride at the FSDO is 100% true. BTSeenThat. That is why there are disproportionately fewer women in professional aviation. Linda is now our state Deputy Director of Aviation.

Recently I helped Jeannie load Frank into a wheelchair in the Methodist Parking Lot. It was saddening.

~~~~~~~~~ What about one of her students at the FSDO? I'm not understanding the meaning I think....

I just tried to look it up on Amazon w/ the ISBN number but it wasn't listed.
 
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Flies in a skirt and high heels most days.
I can't say that I've ever flown in a skirt and definitely not in high heels. That would be difficult with the rudder pedals and all, wouldn't it? Of course the last time I wore high heels was probably in college when my roommate encouraged me to try. I think learning to fly was easier than wearing high heels for one evening. I never tried again even though she kept assuring me I would get used to them.

Didn't seem to be that taboo in the 60's, shouldn't be now either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX7PcbKn6Tk
I had never seen the Aunt Bee episode. Thanks for posting that.

In thinking about this thread as it relates to Aunt Bee and the "old days", I'll say that even back then most men didn't object to women learning how to fly as long as it stayed within the realm of being cute and/or novel. It's when women starting going after the same jobs that there was some backlash. But wasn't it that way in many areas? Women should be in the kitchen, not taking our jobs! They also should get paid less because they're the second income in the household and they don't need the money as much. I heard that one a number of times. I've heard all kinds of weird statements over the years, some of which I think were actually meant as compliments or friendly advice but came out wrong. Weird statements don't just come from men either. Just recently I was speaking to a woman from the Ukraine who watches my mom's condo when I am not there because she is a neighbor. When she found I what I do for a living she was shocked. Finally she asked me if I flew with male pilots. When I told her that I did she was relieved. She didn't think women should be flying by themselves (or with other women, presumably). :confused:
 
asks CNN, in this rather nice piece.

Examining gender bias among airline pilots is rather late in the metaphorical career pipe to be looking for a leek or cause. A lot of the "reasons" given in that article absolutely fail to explain the gender disparity in private pilots. The whole "its a demanding career" reasoning (and all its annoying derivatives) is bunk since it doesn't explain why so few women want to fly for the sake of flying as a past-time! About half of all pilots aren't doing it as a career. Consider the statistics:

According FAA statistics (tables 1 and 2 from http://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/2009/):

  • In 2000, pilot certificates held by women:
    • 5.7% (35,607 of 625,581) of all.
    • 11.3% (10,189 of 93,064) of student.
    • 5.8% (14,554 of 251,561) of private.
    • 4.6% (5,807 of 125,738) of commercial.
    • 3.1% (4,411 of 141,596) of airline transport.
  • By 2009:
    • 6.2% (36,808 of 594,285) of all.
    • 11.7% (8,450 of 72,280) of student.
    • 6.8% (14,322 of 211,619) of private.
    • 6.6% (8,289 of 125,738) of commercial.
    • 3.9% (5,636 of 144,600) of airline transport.
The gain in commercial and ATP certificates were the most significant. The percentage gain in private pilot percentage was due to entirely to having a lower attrition rate than men! But in all cases, women just didn't make up that great a percentage. Now go figure out the percentages for the non-pilot fields in those tables - one field stands out! Do any of the "reasons" stated in the article explain the percentages in those fields!?

Since only ~0.3% of all U.S. citizens who are likely eligible to become pilots ever do (assuming everyone who drives a car is eligible; ~190,000,000 drivers http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/onh2p4.htm) the low percentage of women among the piloting ranks may be simply due to a secondary causal action because of the extreme winnowing that occurs at the extremes of any bell curve.
 
Is there an objective need to have more women airline pilots ?


As long as a woman who intends to pursue this career has the same opportunities to advance, I have no problem with the numerical distribution the way it is.
 
Why you talk in oxymoron, Lone Ranger?

Is there an objective need to have more women airline pilots ?


As long as a woman who intends to pursue this career has the same opportunities to advance, I have no problem with the numerical distribution the way it is.
 
Is there an objective need to have more women airline pilots ?


As long as a woman who intends to pursue this career has the same opportunities to advance, I have no problem with the numerical distribution the way it is.

It isn't clear that you can make that assumption.
 
It isn't clear that you can make that assumption.

I am not making the asumption that it is already the case. As long as one candidate for a corporate flying job has to endure the 'so what do you figure we do if you become pregnant' question, we are not there.
 
I am not making the asumption that it is already the case. As long as one candidate for a corporate flying job has to endure the 'so what do you figure we do if you become pregnant' question, we are not there.
You have evidence that a company is asking women interviewees that question?
 
Which in turn would lead to a discussion of definition. The male pilots would say that the job-associated risks of "getting screwed over" by their employers are probably much greater than those from any other kind of screwing.
I am not making the asumption that it is already the case. As long as one candidate for a corporate flying job has to endure the 'so what do you figure we do if you become pregnant' question, we are not there.
 
Here's the back of the book. There's still one in the FBO display case- I think it's $15 and i'll package it probably for another $5. if you're into it. Not promoting- it's not profound literature but it does tell the tale of a woman (actually, includes Linda her student) working in an all WASP-male environment for 40 years. She quit when she was 78.
 

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Until I recently sold my business I would have killed to find a qualified female partner...

Be aware that females are in the majority of the population in the USA...
Be aware that females do the majority of the banking and check writing for families in the USA...
Be aware that females are now in the majority in medical schools...
Be aware that females make the majority of the appointments for medical care , either as patients themselves, or as the mother or spouse of the drooling idiot male at their elbow...
Be aware that if the female population if the USA were to become angry and vote only for females, all elected positions in the USA would be held by a female within 6 years...

The good old boys who think a woman is not qualified because she doesn't have balls, are to stoopid to keep their jobs...

denny-o
 
Oh yeah, and I missed that females are in the majority in college and university enrollments...
 
Oh yeah, and I missed that females are in the majority in college and university enrollments...

Dont worry, academic department heads are for the most part still men :wink2: .
 
But women are still crippled with having a hamster in a wheel for a brain.:wink2:
Until I recently sold my business I would have killed to find a qualified female partner...

Be aware that females are in the majority of the population in the USA...
Be aware that females do the majority of the banking and check writing for families in the USA...
Be aware that females are now in the majority in medical schools...
Be aware that females make the majority of the appointments for medical care , either as patients themselves, or as the mother or spouse of the drooling idiot male at their elbow...
Be aware that if the female population if the USA were to become angry and vote only for females, all elected positions in the USA would be held by a female within 6 years...

The good old boys who think a woman is not qualified because she doesn't have balls, are to stoopid to keep their jobs...

denny-o
 
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