Who honestly remembers Light gun signals? Lost comms

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gkdave

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Cameron, NC
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Dave
Thought I share my experience tonight on a planned XC from NC to Ohio. On IFR flight plan in some IMC after takeoff. All appears normal. Tower switches me to Departure, all good. Dep says can't pick me up. Asked to recycle transponder. No problems yet. Still nothing on transponder. All looks normal on Transponder. Asked to recycle again. Ablige, then Garmin GTN650 begins to flicker, act crazy and then goes out. No worries, still have comms and iPad for back up GPS.

Then dead silence on radios, 2nd radio KX155 dead. In IMC dead radios. No worries, transponder was still working. I was only about 10 mins into the flight at 2000ft. Tried the fuses, nothing. About then I came out of the cloud and could see ground and turned around, beeline for the airport.

Now worried about incoming traffic at the regional airport I just took off from. I first squawked 7700 for about 30 seconds. Then 7600. By this time was entering the downwind leg, looking for light guns. No joy!!! So proceeded while looking for traffic with the help of my 2 teenage daughters.

Turned base and final and saw the Fire Trucks. Had the best landing I have had in a while!.

Talked to fireman, then called tower. They asked if I had seen the light gun. Nope. I asked what incident paperwork I need to do. He says, none. I did everything perfect. No need. I was shocked. But I will take it..lol.

MORAL of the story - I already went online looking for a handheld radio!! Never leaving home without it now. Glad I had my iPad for backup GPS if I had needed it.

Oh, and believe me, I know my light guns signals now!
Inflight - Steady green - cleared to land
Flashing green - Return for landing
Steady Red - Giveway and continue to circle
Flashing Red - Abort unsafe to land
Alternating Green/Red - exercise extreme caution
 
Good job!

I've carried a handheld radio for 19 years, since losing coms flying an Apache (I was right seat) into MSP at night. In February.

Without the handheld that my buddy thankfully brought along, we would have been SOL. With it, it was a tense non-event.
 
They are glued to the inside of the glove box door and on the decal on the sun shade.

gkdave said:
Thought I share my experience tonight on a planned XC from NC to Ohio. On IFR flight plan in some IMC after takeoff. All appears normal. Tower switches me to Departure, all good. Dep says can't pick me up. Asked to recycle transponder. No problems yet. Still nothing on transponder. All looks normal on Transponder. Asked to recycle again. Ablige, then Garmin GTN650 begins to flicker, act crazy and then goes out. No worries, still have comms and iPad for back up GPS.

Then dead silence on radios, 2nd radio KX155 dead. In IMC dead radios. No worries, transponder was still working. I was only about 10 mins into the flight at 2000ft. Tried the fuses, nothing. About then I came out of the cloud and could see ground and turned around, beeline for the airport.

Now worried about incoming traffic at the regional airport I just took off from. I first squawked 7700 for about 30 seconds. Then 7600. By this time was entering the downwind leg, looking for light guns. No joy!!! So proceeded while looking for traffic with the help of my 2 teenage daughters.

Turned base and final and saw the Fire Trucks. Had the best landing I have had in a while!.

Talked to fireman, then called tower. They asked if I had seen the light gun. Nope. I asked what incident paperwork I need to do. He says, none. I did everything perfect. No need. I was shocked. But I will take it..lol.

MORAL of the story - I already went online looking for a handheld radio!! Never leaving home without it now. Glad I had my iPad for backup GPS if I had needed it.

Oh, and believe me, I know my light guns signals now!
Inflight - Steady green - cleared to land
Flashing green - Return for landing
Steady Red - Giveway and continue to circle
Flashing Red - Abort unsafe to land
Alternating Green/Red - exercise extreme caution
Click to expand...
 
Good job. We try to remember to ask tower for a practice run with light guns only about once a year. Our tower at Bridgeport has the light gun out of service for the past couple of years. Thanks for the reminder to do it again at another airport.
 
Thanks guys.. Tower says they may need to check the batteries..lol.. Ya think..

I know not a major Inflight emergency, but did get the puffer factor up a bit! Just glad the skies cleared enough, in time and no other traffic in the area.
 
On my oral exam...DPE:"What do you do if you are coming in with no radios and see a red steady light signal from the tower?"..."Well, if it was tomorrow I would give way to other aircraft and contiune cirling the airport but in two years when I forget all of this stuff I will reference my cheat sheet printed directly on my kneeboard that has all of the critical procedures!"

Got one brownie point.
 
My kneeboard has the signals printed on it.

If you've never seen light gun signals before, they can be harder to see than you think. Pick a nice quiet day at a towered field and ask for signals - you might want to radio the tower to acknowledge your landing clearance.
 
Shawn said:
On my oral exam...DPE:"What do you do if you are coming in with no radios and see a red steady light signal from the tower?"..."Well, if it was tomorrow I would give way to other aircraft and contiune cirling the airport but in two years when I forget all of this stuff I will reference my cheat sheet printed directly on my kneeboard that has all of the critical procedures!"

Got one brownie point.
Click to expand...

That is a good one!!

BTW, I had my cheat sheet, but forgot it was there..haha...
 
Honestly, after about 8 years of having never seen one, I have had three occasions to use light signals in the last 8 months.

Ryan
 
First time I needed light signals for real (Fullerton CA, 1969, Narco Mark 12 receiver quit), I got a red light. I broke out of the pattern, re-entered on the 45 and called downwind with the transmitter I assumed was still working. This time, a green light.

On the ground, I called the tower. He said, "Uh yeah, the reason we gave you a red the first time was 'cuz we pushed the wrong button ... "
 
mine are on the kneeboard and ipad. But I'd probably call the tower on a cell phone before doing the light gun. I keep all local towers programmed into the phone. And a handheld, with headphone jacks, is within reach... With spare batteries.
 
Green good. Red bad. LOL.

It rarely gets much more complex than that in the real world. They're either ready for you -- or they're not.

Once on the ground if you can't remember, just shut down and they'll send some bored dude with a tug, or pickup truck, and a radio that works, to see what the hell you're doing.

I'm not advocating not having a reference on board, or memorizing the silly things, but in reality, they aren't going to get fancy on you in the air. If you can remember the airborne ones, and they do have a logical pattern, the rest don't really matter.

Green good. Land.

Flashing green... good in a minute or two. Circle to land. (Probably someone on the runway. Big hint. Look.)

Red bad. Don't land.

Red/Green... We are at a loss as much as you are because there's something we can't express in two or three colors. Be careful and good luck! We're all counting on you! ;) (Again probably someone on the runway or in the pattern or the fire trucks are still crossing the runway for you because we rolled them and we're telling them to get the hell off the runway for you as we send this...)

Green good.
Flashing green, good soon.
Red bad.
Red/Green, we don't know how to tell you!
 
+1 they are hard to see. Steady green looks flashing when the tower guy has bad aim.
Matthew said:
My kneeboard has the signals printed on it.

If you've never seen light gun signals before, they can be harder to see than you think. Pick a nice quiet day at a towered field and ask for signals - you might want to radio the tower to acknowledge your landing clearance.
Click to expand...
 
Ok - a quick question: similar scenario to the OP. To enter the airspace you need to be in 2-way communication with ATC at a C or D. With no radio, good luck with that, tower either won't see you or won't know what you are doing by loitering just outside their airspace. Cell phone to the tower or FSS? Land somewhere else and make other arrangements? Or bust in and look for lights?

The only time I thought I lost comms was in a very turbulent day and I accidentally bumped the volume way down. I could xmt but not rcv. I was inbound to D-space, called the tower a couple times and was about to make a 360 to stay clear of their D and give me time to figure something out when I double-checked the volume. Tower was about to go to lights for me, but at 4 miles out I don't think I would have been able to see it.
 
I got lights at IXD the other day, it reminded me to double check the radio :)
 
D'oh - I just re-read my post and realized I had left out any use of 7600. Apparently mt brain cell that thinks lost comms with my brain cell that types.
 
Matthew said:
D'oh - I just re-read my post and realized I had left out any use of 7600. Apparently mt brain cell that thinks lost comms with my brain cell that types.
Click to expand...

Just try to squawk at a location that has radar, if you have the option. Also, all tower and centers have published numbers in the afd
 
Matthew said:
Ok - a quick question: similar scenario to the OP. To enter the airspace you need to be in 2-way communication with ATC at a C or D. With no radio, good luck with that, tower either won't see you or won't know what you are doing by loitering just outside their airspace. Cell phone to the tower or FSS? Land somewhere else and make other arrangements? Or bust in and look for lights?

The only time I thought I lost comms was in a very turbulent day and I accidentally bumped the volume way down. I could xmt but not rcv. I was inbound to D-space, called the tower a couple times and was about to make a 360 to stay clear of their D and give me time to figure something out when I double-checked the volume. Tower was about to go to lights for me, but at 4 miles out I don't think I would have been able to see it.
Click to expand...

Re read 14 CFR 91.129(d)-
Communications failure. Each person who operates an aircraft in a Class D airspace area must maintain two-way radio communications with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that area.
(1) If the aircraft radio fails in flight under IFR, the pilot must comply with § 91.185 of the part.
(2) If the aircraft radio fails in flight under VFR, the pilot in command may operate that aircraft and land if—
(i) Weather conditions are at or above basic VFR weather minimums;
(ii) Visual contact with the tower is maintained; and
(iii) A clearance to land is received.
 
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denverpilot said:
Anyone ever hear of someone seeing a light gun five miles out? Not I.
Click to expand...

Perhaps at night, but the bigger issue is how in the heck will the tower see your dark airplane approaching if they don't know you're coming?
 
When they built the new tower at O'Hare, they didn't install light guns, but supplied portable versions-- that were promptly stashed away in a cupboard, never to be seen again. Which made the following exchange on the telephone even funnier:

Pilot: "Hi, um, I was the first officer on American 123, we landed 14R about an hour ago? And, um, I got behind a little bit and I guess I never switched over to tower frequency? So, I guess we landed without a landing clearance? And, um, I wanted to know, is there going to be any paperwork over that?"

Me: "Well, we were aware you were having radio difficulties, so of course we gave you a green light. If you saw the green light, then you DID have landing clearance. Did you see the green light?"

Pilot: "Green light? What green light? I didn't see any green light."

Captain's voice in the background, shouting: "No, no, tell him you saw the green light, tell him you saw the green light! Are you an idiot, tell him you saw the green light!"
 
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I do now have the Tower number on my cellphone. But honestly, at the time, I was just more worried about seeing and avoiding other aircraft. Not trying to call the tower on my cellphone. I don't have a bluetooth option, so not sure I could hear them anyway.
 
denverpilot said:
Green good. Red bad. LOL.

It rarely gets much more complex than that in the real world. They're either ready for you -- or they're not.

Once on the ground if you can't remember, just shut down and they'll send some bored dude with a tug, or pickup truck, and a radio that works, to see what the hell you're doing.

I'm not advocating not having a reference on board, or memorizing the silly things, but in reality, they aren't going to get fancy on you in the air. If you can remember the airborne ones, and they do have a logical pattern, the rest don't really matter.

Green good. Land.

Flashing green... good in a minute or two. Circle to land. (Probably someone on the runway. Big hint. Look.)

Red bad. Don't land.

Red/Green... We are at a loss as much as you are because there's something we can't express in two or three colors. Be careful and good luck! We're all counting on you! ;) (Again probably someone on the runway or in the pattern or the fire trucks are still crossing the runway for you because we rolled them and we're telling them to get the hell off the runway for you as we send this...)

Green good.
Flashing green, good soon.
Red bad.
Red/Green, we don't know how to tell you!
Click to expand...

Awesome descriptions Nate! Awesome! :rofl:

David
 
Was just thinking today that I want a portable radio!! and i was wonering if anyone ever remembering those light signals
 
flhrci said:
Awesome descriptions Nate! Awesome! :rofl:
Click to expand...

LOL. If you think about it, the signals were designed for idiots... Like me!... To remember.

A bit less tongue-in-cheek, they were also designed to meld into the old Lighted Airway system pre-Avionics, as we're the airport beacons.

Green... Wait... White... That's an airport!

Green... Wait... White/white quick... That's a military airport.

Airways were red/white I believe? Not a lot of those left.

Beacon green/white... Good. Runway there.

Beacon Red/White... Bad. Just a tower in the middle of a field or on top of a mountain. Don't try to land there.

Beacon Red/Green/White... It's one if "them there" confused helicopter guy's and gal's helipads.

Someone can land there, but it ain't you, you dumb Air Mail pilot, silly enough to take this deadly job flying cross-country at night in this beat up old plane!!!

;) ;) ;)
 
marcoseddi said:
whats a good type of radio any recommendations on brand model not so expensive?
Click to expand...

I got a used vertex pilot 3 with charger and spare battery off of eBay for $125 recently. Bargains can be found if you hunt for them.
 
denverpilot said:
LOL. If you think about it, the signals were designed for idiots... Like me!... To remember.

A bit less tongue-in-cheek, they were also designed to meld into the old Lighted Airway system pre-Avionics, as we're the airport beacons.

Green... Wait... White... That's an airport!

Green... Wait... White/white quick... That's a military airport.

Airways were red/white I believe? Not a lot of those left.

Beacon green/white... Good. Runway there.

Beacon Red/White... Bad. Just a tower in the middle of a field or on top of a mountain. Don't try to land there.

Beacon Red/Green/White... It's one if "them there" confused helicopter guy's and gal's helipads.

Someone can land there, but it ain't you, you dumb Air Mail pilot, silly enough to take this deadly job flying cross-country at night in this beat up old plane!!!

;) ;) ;)
Click to expand...

But what about white white red? :D

(Search the archive for a post from me telling this story about seeing white-white-red on my night long XC during primary training)
 
I carry a handheld for just this reason.

Bought it the day after the rental I was in lost all electronics (xpndr and everything) right as I was about to start to taxi. Thought about what it'd be like if that had happened while I was in the air and figured it'd be cheap insurance.
 
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Dave,

I've experienced Lost Comms before while instructing at my home airport (KSGJ). It's helpful to have the phone number to the tower. I squawked 7600 and called the tower and they cleared me to land.

As far as troubleshooting techniques, did you verify that the Alternator was working correctly? Turn off the alternator (left) switch and verify that the ammeter was on the negative (discharge side) and also verify "Low Voltage" annunciation, then switch the alternator back on - observe positive charge on the ammeter.

Did you recycle your alternator & master switch?

Did you verify you properly configured your audio panel?

Did you check the volume control? Maybe you've turned it down to copy ATIS and forgot to turn it back up.

Did you verify you were on the correct approach frequency?

I don't remember all those light gun signals however, I have them on my kneeboard.

Darren
 
I landed at a mixed civilian/ANG base once shortly after taking off and telling the tower I smelled smoke and was shutting off the master and returning. I had just had the alternator worked on. After being chased to a stop by the ANG CFR crew I got them to give me a green light to taxi.

The other funny story was talking to PCT and there was some pilot who ATC inquired if he was having problems. The pilot said he was just taking photos and ATC said OK he thought he was flying a triangular pattern. I told ATC he was dating himself, and then we discussed the fact that neither of us could remember if flying clockwise or counterclockwise was the sign that we only lost the transmitter.

I did have an NORDO arrival into IAD (years before 9/11). I had receive only capability and they gave me headings for identificatoin and to signal my intent.
No green lights though.
 
AggieMike88 said:
But what about white white red? :D

(Search the archive for a post from me telling this story about seeing white-white-red on my night long XC during primary training)
Click to expand...

ROFL... Just looked up the old post. Hilarious!

Boom! ;)

Goes well for the "logbook entry" thread, too. :)
 
marcoseddi said:
whats a good type of radio any recommendations on brand model not so expensive?
Click to expand...

I'd stay away from the Marconi's, a bit dated plus takes up a lot of space and weight. I personally have an ICOM A23 with an after market lithium ion battery pack. Works awesome.
 
Gadgetman said:
Dave,

I've experienced Lost Comms before while instructing at my home airport (KSGJ). It's helpful to have the phone number to the tower. I squawked 7600 and called the tower and they cleared me to land.

As far as troubleshooting techniques, did you verify that the Alternator was working correctly? Turn off the alternator (left) switch and verify that the ammeter was on the negative (discharge side) and also verify "Low Voltage" annunciation, then switch the alternator back on - observe positive charge on the ammeter.

Did you recycle your alternator & master switch?

Did you verify you properly configured your audio panel?

Did you check the volume control? Maybe you've turned it down to copy ATIS and forgot to turn it back up.

Did you verify you were on the correct approach frequency?

I don't remember all those light gun signals however, I have them on my kneeboard.

Darren
Click to expand...

Yes, I did do troubleshooting. And everything was dead. No power to anything.
Since that night have discovered that my alternator is shot. Looking for a new or rebuilt one now.
 
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