Which plane should I be looking at?

[linuxjim]

Hello all,
I am very new here (second post) and I am taking lessons for my PPL now. I am very interested in buying my own plane. I've looked at a lot of forums and the answer is pretty universally "it depends on your mission." So I guess I'd like to put my mission and budget out there and hope you can suggest what airplanes I should be looking at.

70% of flight will be be my wife, myself and my daughter (maybe the dog) plus some baggage (~500lb+) making a monthly trip that is about 450nm. The rest of our trips will be to visit family or other trips that will generally be up to 650 nm away.

I would say comfort will be more important than speed because my intentions are to buy a plane that will be long term. I'm thinking I'd like it to last 15 - 20+ years?

I have about a $200 - $270k budget.

I have 2 questions:

1. What model planes (and year range?) should I be looking at?
2. Where is a good place to start looking? Trade-a-plane? Controller? Local postings? Bank repossessions? Should I get a buyers agent?

Thanks in advance for your advice and expertise.

 

[poadeleted21]

I'd be looking at an A36 Bonanza or a 210. For 500 miles, 2-3 people + stuff I'd want something spacious with some speed to boot. Might also consider a Baron, 310 or similar if you want to feed and care for 2 engines.

 

[Brad Z]

Hello all,
I am very new here (second post) and I am taking lessons for my PPL now. I am very interested in buying my own plane. I've looked at a lot of forums and the answer is pretty universally "it depends on your mission." So I guess I'd like to put my mission and budget out there and hope you can suggest what airplanes I should be looking at.

70% of flight will be be my wife, myself and my daughter (maybe the dog) plus some baggage (~500lb+) making a monthly trip that is about 450nm. The rest of our trips will be to visit family or other trips that will generally be up to 650 nm away.

I would say comfort will be more important than speed because my intentions are to buy a plane that will be long term. I'm thinking I'd like it to last 15 - 20+ years?

I have about a $200 - $270k budget.

I have 2 questions:

1. What model planes (and year range?) should I be looking at?
2. Where is a good place to start looking? Trade-a-plane? Controller? Local postings? Bank repossessions? Should I get a buyers agent?

Thanks in advance for your advice and expertise.

500lbs of baggage? Those ladies don't pack lightly!

A late model Cessna 182 or a mid 2000s Cirrus SR-22 would both work (assuming that's 500lbs total). Which of those further depends on your mission: short strips versus long one; grass versus pavement. A Bonanza would be a good choice as well if you're considering a retract.

In your price range, there are lots of options--anything from a nearly new 172 to a more exotic Cessna P210.

Long term, speed (and range) will become more important--especially on those 650nm trips.

The nice thing about a 182 or a cirrus is both are relatively easy to liquidate should you decide you want more.

 

[Henning]

Bank repos and seizure auctions are never a good bargain. Hauling the family and that budget leaves your best option to likely be an SR-22 Cirrus. If the chute doesn't sell you, I would be looking either an A-36 Bonanza, or a 310 or Baron light twin.

 

[Dr. O]

450 to 650 miles one way, 3 people a dog and baggage and wanting to do it on a schedule.
That is demanding flying. You will be crossing weather fronts.
You need a capable airplane.
While Henning understands, as I do, that you have outlined a mission for a twin it can be done with a single - and is done every day, the difference being that these are experienced pilots and most making those kind of flights will have an instrument rating.
I am going to strongly suggest that you start with a Skylane as was mentioned. It has the power and useful load to haul your cargo and the structural integrity and beef to deal with rough air. It is not as fast as a Cirrus, or a Bo, or a twin, but the operating costs will be vastly lower and downtime for repairs will be less.
Get your training finished and then let us know what you are thinking.

Welcome aboard.

 

[Henning]

While the 182 would do, why not get the Cirrus with TKS? Just because he doesn't have an instrument rating now, he can have one before the year is out. Hauling family around the only single I would personally chose is the SR-22. Besides, starting in one now, he has more time to get to know the avionics suite before he gets into hard IFR with family aboard.

Trained well, the SR-22 pilot has options available that are unique in certified single engine planes. All in all I still prefer a twin though.

 

[Geico266]

Hands down RV-10. Fast, slows for easy landing, save money by doing maintenance yourself, burn mogas, a true 4 seat aircraft.

 

[N747JB]

For a first airplane that can last you a long time, a 182 or a Bonanza come to mind. Both are easy to fly, the Bo is going to be faster, the 182 will be a little cheaper to operate and insure, especially without an IR. Both are marketable if you decide to change airplanes.
Sure a twin would work fine, BUT, for a first airplane the shock of the potential maintenance costs could ruin ownership for you.

 

[JOhnH]

Bank repos and seizure auctions are never a good bargain. Hauling the family and that budget leaves your best option to likely be an SR-22 Cirrus. If the chute doesn't sell you, I would be looking either an A-36 Bonanza, or a 310 or Baron light twin.

Good 310's are hard to find. Do you have any advice for him if he decides to go that route? :wink2:

 

[VWGhiaBob]

Easy: Non-retract PA32 - Cherokee 6 / Lance (non T Tail) / Saratoga / XT with 300HP engine. This plane has by far the most spacious interior, is easy to fly, and has an amazing payload (1,200 - 1,550). It also has 6 seats.

It only uses a bit more fuel than a 182 but is far more luxurious.

Why non-retract? Simplicity / lower costs...plus you don't gain much speed with the retract anyway.

And most important: It looks really cool!

 

[Dav8or]

While the 182 would do, why not get the Cirrus with TKS? Just because he doesn't have an instrument rating now, he can have one before the year is out. Hauling family around the only single I would personally chose is the SR-22. Besides, starting in one now, he has more time to get to know the avionics suite before he gets into hard IFR with family aboard.

Trained well, the SR-22 pilot has options available that are unique in certified single engine planes. All in all I still prefer a twin though.

Hauling the family single engine, I agree, the Cirrus SR-22. The trick is to train, learn and think in such a way as to not become that stereotypical Cirrus driver. You still need the discipline to say no occasionally and drive the trip, take the airlines, or stay home. Maybe COPA can help with that, I don't know.

 

[Scott@KTYR]

+1 is my Vote TOO

Easy: Non-retract PA32 - Cherokee 6 / Lance (non T Tail) / Saratoga / XT with 300HP engine. This plane has by far the most spacious interior, is easy to fly, and has an amazing payload (1,200 - 1,550). It also has 6 seats.

It only uses a bit more fuel than a 182 but is far more luxurious.

Why non-retract? Simplicity / lower costs...plus you don't gain much speed with the retract anyway.

And most important: It looks really cool!

 

[Shepherd]

The "Spad" (A-1E) is a great plane. It has terrific range or 8 hours of loiter time if you are just doing touch and goes. You can also fit 15 of your friends down in the fuselage if no one minds not having a window seat.
A C-123, is always a big hit at the local field. Plenty of room in the back to live in after you're kicked out of your house for whatever reason. You can even park your car inside it.
Stay away from the F-4D/E. They are a pita to fly, expensive to run, no range to speak of (but plenty fast), and require the GNP of a large country to maintain.
Sorry. I was looking at old photos of my Air Force days, and some of the fun iron from the days of my youth. sigh....

 

[James331]

Hands down RV-10. Fast, slows for easy landing, save money by doing maintenance yourself, burn mogas, a true 4 seat aircraft.

Yep

If you have a hardon for certified I guess a Bo for speed or a U206 if you have any desires for backcountry or floats.

Also a Maule M7 is a SWEET plane, lil smaller but worth checking out.


Stay away from twins and composites, they can get spendy.


Ether way go fly all this stuff, have everyone get in it and try it on before you decide. Duh I know

 

[docmirror]

For the next two/three years, Bart has it right. A36 or mid-year 210.

After two/three years, IFR cert, and when your skills allow you really, really need this;

http://www.controller.com/listingsd.../AEROSTAR-602P/1981-AEROSTAR-602P/1327137.htm

(show your wife)

You should look in all places for planes. Controller, globalplanesearch.com, barnstormers.com, Trade A Plane, broker, etc. Cast a wide net, so you don't miss anything.

 

[Henning]

Easy: Non-retract PA32 - Cherokee 6 / Lance (non T Tail) / Saratoga / XT with 300HP engine. This plane has by far the most spacious interior, is easy to fly, and has an amazing payload (1,200 - 1,550). It also has 6 seats.

It only uses a bit more fuel than a 182 but is far more luxurious.

Why non-retract? Simplicity / lower costs...plus you don't gain much speed with the retract anyway.

And most important: It looks really cool!

The cost savings of fixed gear over retract is in the negative $$$ range when one looks at the speed differential and hours in the air vs the cost of fuel and how many hours a year he won't be burning that fuel. Retracts are not that major of a cost, most years it's $75 for a gear swing. Heck, it costs $75 to remove and replace the wheel pants on a lot of FG planes to do the service and inspection at annual anyway, so that's pretty moot. Granted you'll spend a couple grand a decade, but if you are operating 15 500 mile trips a year at $285 a trip for fuel rather than $325, that's $600 a year towards gear with fuel at $5.50 a gallon. I have had 2 retract planes for a total of 15 years and never spent that much on my landing gear. There are a couple of potential gotcha items which will cost maybe 3 times that, but they are once in a decade if not once in a life time or never items; this compared to fuel $$$ savings on every flight.

Another plane to consider is a big bore Mooney. There is a sturdy and efficient airplane that performs well. Turn the 450 mile trip into < 3hrs.

 

[poadeleted20]

While the 182 would do, why not get the Cirrus with TKS?

Because it's hard to find one for under $270K, and trying to get a dog into the back along with kid and baggage isn't going to be particularly easy. My suggestion would be to go with a PA32 or BE36 airframe rather than a Cessna. With the wife, kid, dog, and bags, the rear door and greater cabin volume will be very, very nice to have. If that works, and the OP builds experience and wants to move to a twin, moving from a Saratoga to a Seneca, or 36 Bonanza to a 58 Baron will be a pretty easy transition.

At this point, without an IR, a fixed gear PA32 Saratoga/Cherokee Six might be a good idea, as insurance on retractable singles of that size can be very steep for low-time non-IR pilots. Also, a fixed-gear PA32 is a very good instrument training platform -- I've taken several people through that rating in a fixed-gear PA32. Adding retractable gear adds complexity in that process, and complexity always makes that training more difficult -- you can make that upgrade after you get that rating.

 

[Henning]

I think the SR-22 would be fine loading a dog and kid into.

The numbers on the multi year program work out for buying the full capacity plane off the bat. Changing planes is an expensive proposition, and the insurance only hurts the first 100 hrs which you get hit with whether you have 40 hrs or 200hrs. Wait much longer than 200hrs to get into a retract and the insurance hit starts getting larger with more hours.

If the A-36 is the end product, get that. If the 58 Baron or whatever is the desired end plane, get the PP done and go direct into the IR in that. With the 50 hrs+ of training in the plane for the ME along with the IR dual and passed the two check rides in the plane, I bet he actually gets a really good deal on insurance. This can be done in a couple of weeks if need be, or you can operate for a longer period using the MEII as the insured PIC for your family/business flights. This keeps your insurance costs at a minimum while getting the 50 & 100 hour in type/airframe premium milestones while having the effectiveness of the full capability plane, gaining your own experience and training in that plane, and most importantly, not have the upgrade costs and losses of buying, selling, and owning multiple aircraft. With the added expenses of doing three upgrades, he could get the Baron and a PA-20 to bomb around in for cheap local flights or put on floats.