Which LSA is best for me?

SkyHog

SkyHog

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Everything Offends Me
My medical expires at the end of April. Due to a slew of health issues that I predict will probably keep me from getting my medical renewed as a class 3 (don't ask, I really don't want to rehash them, but 5 years is a loooong time looking back)...

So - I'm probably going to go LSA now. Problem is, there's no rental LSAs around here that I know of. I'm still a cheapo (even moreso now that my son is enroute), so I need to go as inexpensive as possible. Here's my mission:

1. I weigh 260lbs. I'm losing that weight fairly quickly, but I'm going to plan on staying there for the purposes of the airplane in case I gain it back.
2. Most of my flying will be within 300 miles, if not less.
3. Speed is only important in that I need to be able to get places faster than driving
4. Typically will have one passenger alongside, either a baby or a mother, weighing around 210lbs at the highest (pregnant) point.
5. NO TAILWHEEL airplanes.
6. MUST BE LSA Legal
7. Must be < $30K, but the lower the better.

Experimental is ok, provided it fits the bill. Ideas? I really want to emphasize that the most important factor is price because I need to keep my money as liquid as possible for the next few years.
 
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you posted your wife's weight. i will pray for you Nick...

I'm sure Peter (zaictev) will have some suggestions for you about LSA's.
 
There are nosedragger versions of the Kitfox, Highlander, and Merlin GT that would be towards the lower end of the price scale. Browsing the LSA listings at Barnstormers.com should give you some idea about what is out there.

My ride would fit what you are asking for (particularly price), except for the nosewheel thing.

A couple things - just because someone lists an aircraft as an LSA doesn't mean that it really is - check.
And, personally, I would avoid two stroke engines. (I'm sure someone will be along to argue that point shortly.)
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
There are nosedragger versions of the Kitfox, Highlander, and Merlin GT that would be towards the lower end of the price scale. Browsing the LSA listings at Barnstormers.com should give you some idea about what is out there.

My ride would fit what you are asking for (particularly price), except for the nosewheel thing.

A couple things - just because someone lists an aircraft as an LSA doesn't mean that it really is - check.
And, personally, I would avoid two stroke engines. (I'm sure someone will be along to argue that point shortly.)
Click to expand...

What is your ride?
 
SkyHog said:
What is your ride?
Click to expand...
I have a Merlin GT.

Slow, but it was inexpensive and will hold 460 pounds in the seats with full fuel (16 gallons). More room inside compared to a Avid Flyer that I looked at. Don't know how it compares to the Kitfox or Highlander for room. You will learn to use your feet.
 
You would fit in my CTSW, but just barely. There's a 260lb max weight per seat limitation, something you should check on other LSA's. My plane weighs 730 pounds dry. You and your passenger would bump it up to 1200 pounds. That leaves 120 pounds for fuel and baggage. Flying 100 knots and burning 5 gallons an hour would take 15 gallons to go 300 miles. That would be out of my comfort range.
 
SkyHog said:
My medical expires at the end of April. Due to a slew of health issues that I predict will probably keep me from getting my medical renewed as a class 3 (don't ask, I really don't want to rehash them, but 5 years is a loooong time looking back)...

So - I'm probably going to go LSA now. Problem is, there's no rental LSAs around here that I know of. I'm still a cheapo (even moreso now that my son is enroute), so I need to go as inexpensive as possible. Here's my mission:

1. I weigh 260lbs. I'm losing that weight fairly quickly, but I'm going to plan on staying there for the purposes of the airplane in case I gain it back.
2. Most of my flying will be within 300 miles, if not less.
3. Speed is only important in that I need to be able to get places faster than driving
4. Typically will have one passenger alongside, either a baby or a mother, weighing around 210lbs at the highest (pregnant) point.
5. NO TAILWHEEL airplanes.
6. MUST BE LSA Legal

Experimental is ok, provided it fits the bill. Ideas? I really want to emphasize that the most important factor is price because I need to keep my money as liquid as possible for the next few years.
Click to expand...


Well my mind was running like crazy 'til I got to number 5. That takes all the fun out of it.:D I think that eliminates the economical planes.
 
Budget will be a big factor in what you find. If you are looking to spend less than $30K you are going to have few options, $50K opens up a few more, $75K wide open.
But one of my favorites is the Zenith 701.
 
Dean said:
Budget will be a big factor in what you find. If you are looking to spend less than $30K you are going to have few options, $50K opens up a few more, $75K wide open.
But one of my favorites is the Zenith 701.
Click to expand...

Ah - ok, I forgot, since I'm working with pilots here, I should define the price range...I'll edit the OP - but I'm looking sub $30K.
 
tailwheel is not that hard, you can do it. I feel like 30k is going to limit you to some of the tailwheel aircraft. Can a cub be bought for 30k? Easy tailwheel plane to learn, and fun airplane... I have little interest in flying any of the other LSA's but I have a ball in the cub

Understand you don't want to talk details about the medical but have you discussed with Dr Bruce? If its gonna be a real PITA to maintain I understand the switch to LSA. Good luck.
 
Too bad re tw. I am flying a nice Luscombe 8A that qualifies as LSA and is worth about $20k. The thing is the usable load though. What kind of altitudes do you need? Oh wait, that's right, no tailwheel :-(
 
SkyHog said:
What is a CTSW?
Click to expand...

I just today got a call from the local Flight Design dealer to get some free time in the CTLS. He needs someone to follow him in one of his airplanes when he drops off for service and later picks up another CTLS.

Hey, free time is good!
 
Get a copy of the Kitplanes 2012 buyer's guide (in the December 2011 issue of that magazine.)

Very first alphabetical entry already yields one possible contender (keep in mind that your cost criteria will require you to make sacrifices):

A.S.A.P.
Beaver RX-550 Plus
Cruise, mph 73
Stall, mph 37
Range, s.m. 230
Rate of Climb, fpm 1050
Takeoff/Landing Distance, ft. 250/250
Engine Used Rotax 582
HP/HP Range 65/50-80
Fuel Capacity, gal. 10
Empty/Gross Weight, lb. 430/1050
Length, ft. 20.7
Wingspan, ft. 32
Wing Area, sq. ft. 154.5
No. of Seats 2T
Cockpit Width, in. n.a
Landing Gear trigear
Bldg. Materials F, T
Beginner Build Time, hr. 220
No. Completed & Flown 2060
Cost $12,995
Estimated Completed Cost $21K-$28K
Quickbuild/Plans Available? N/N
LSA Legal
www.ultralight.ca
250/549-1102
 
Other possibilities (copy-and-pasted from Kitplanes 2012 Buyer's Guide):

Blue Yonder Aviation, Inc.
EZ Flyer
Cruise, mph 75
Stall, mph 38
Range, s.m. 380
Rate of Climb, fpm 700
Takeoff/Landing Distance, ft. 100/175
Engine Used Rotax 582
HP/HP Range 65/52-130
Fuel Capacity, gal. 24
Empty/Gross Weight, lb. 495/1320
Length, ft. 21
Wingspan, ft. 31
Wing Area, sq. ft. 176
No. of Seats 2T
Cockpit Width, in. n.p.
Landing Gear trigear
Bldg. Materials F, T
Beginner Build Time, hr. 250
No. Completed & Flown 64
Cost $26,600 (includes engine)
Estimated Completed Cost $27K-$30K
Quickbuild/Plans Available? N/N
LSA Legal
www.ezflyer.com


CGS Aviation
Hawk II Arrow
Cruise, mph 70
Stall, mph 35
Range, s.m. 180
Rate of Climb, fpm 1100
Takeoff/Landing Distance, ft. 150/250
Engine Used Rotax 582
HP/HP Range 65/50-80
Fuel Capacity, gal. 10
Empty/Gross Weight, lb. 450/990
Length, ft. 22.1
Wingspan, ft. 31.6
Wing Area, sq. ft. 147
No. of Seats 2T
Cockpit Width, in. 26
Landing Gear tri or tail
Bldg. Materials F, T
Beginner Build Time, hr. 350
No. Completed & Flown 186
Cost $14,350
Estimated Completed Cost $24K-$26K
Quickbuild/Plans Available? Y/N
LSA Legal
www.cgsaviation.com
251/454-0579


Earthstar Aircraft
Odyssey
Cruise, mph 87
Stall, mph 37
Range, s.m. 348
Rate of Climb, fpm 900
Takeoff/Landing Distance, ft. 200/175
Engine Used HKS 700E
HP/HP Range 60/60-100
Fuel Capacity, gal. 10
Empty/Gross Weight, lb. 460/1000
Length, ft. 18.3
Wingspan, ft. 26
Wing Area, sq. ft. 124
No. of Seats 2
Cockpit Width, in. 41
Landing Gear trigear
Bldg. Materials C, F, M, T
Beginner Build Time, hr. 300
No. Completed & Flown 15
Cost $18,500
Estimated Completed Cost $22K-$35K
Quickbuild/Plans Available? Y/N
LSA Legal
www.thundergull.com
805/438-4938


Excalibur Aircraft
Excalibur Stretch
Cruise, mph 90
Stall, mph 32
Range, s.m. 290
Rate of Climb, fpm 1200
Takeoff/Landing Distance, ft. 96/300
Engine Used Rotax 503
HP/HP Range 52/52-65
Fuel Capacity, gal. 10
Empty/Gross Weight, lb. 450/1000
Length, ft. 20
Wingspan, ft. 31.5
Wing Area, sq. ft. 185
No. of Seats 2T
Cockpit Width, in. 32
Landing Gear trigear
Bldg. Materials F, T
Beginner Build Time, hr. 175
No. Completed & Flown 750
Cost $23,650 (includes engine)
Estimated Completed Cost $24K-$25K
Quickbuild/Plans Available? N/N
LSA Legal
www.excaliburaircraft.com
863/385-9486


There are more of course, but I'll stop there.
 
tonycondon said:
I'm sure Peter (zaictev) will have some suggestions for you about LSA's.
Click to expand...
No, I will not. Nick's low budget cap means that he must research experimentals, and I don't know a thing about them. The post-rulemaking S-LSAs just do not go that cheap (I know about those beater Allegros, but let's keep it real). And the pre-rulemaking airplanes were only made below 1320 lbs back in 1946, when humans were midget sized. All my research suggests that Nick is asking for the impossible, unless an experimental comes to his rescue.

By the way, on Sunday I visited a local builder lady at Mid-Valley whose last project is a RANS S-6S. She mentioned that she let go of her Kitfox for $13k. When she observed that my jaw hit the floor, she explained that it was an early design Kitfox that was less desirable and that it had a Rotax 58x 2-stroke engine, therefore it sold for basically pennies. Looking at examples of her handiwork, I would definitely fly that Kitfox, although, of course, 2-stroke is yuck. The lesson is: if Nick worms his way into a local EAA chapter, maybe by the time his upcoming child reaches Elementary school he would know enough to safely hunt for deals in experimentals.

But for myself, I evaluated LSA situation as so dire, that I resigned to the life of excercise and flying junk 150s.
 
yea either his budget wasn't included on the original post or i didn't see it.
 
tonycondon said:
yea either his budget wasn't included on the original post or i didn't see it.
Click to expand...

I went back and added it....

So - lets do it this way then - lets take the budget higher - does < $50K get me anywhere? I'm ok with used as well.
 
You could get a used aero trek for under 50k, that should fit your needs
 
Life would be less complicated with a TW endorsement. T'aint hard. Do that and get a real J-3(you'll be able to sell it if the need arises.)
 
Yeah don't pay an extra 20 grand cuz you don't want to get he tw endorsement. Different animal for sure but it ain't rocket science
 
Ok - remove the TW restriction...now what am I looking at?
 
Champ, J3, Taylorcraft, Interstate, Porterfield, or any number of experimental builds, such as the Kitfox, Avidflyer, etc...
 
SkyHog said:
So - lets do it this way then - lets take the budget higher - does < $50K get me anywhere? I'm ok with used as well.
Click to expand...
Let's have one thing clear - you can only buy used. The cheapset factory-new LSA PERIOD is Aerotrek A-240: $80k. X-Air used to go for $70k, but it's kind of shaky, not sure if the company still operates, and most definitely they do not have any in stock. Next cheapest is RANS S-6LS at $83k for a stripper. After $90k begins a territory of pretend airplanes that are listed "below 100" but actually sell above with options such as radios.

Now, one scan at Barnstormers later, the new budget yields some catch. I would have a look at these:
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_625880_RANS+S-6S+PRICE+REDUCED.html - $48k
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_385895_RANS+S-6ES+Light+Sport_Exper..html - $40k
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_629538_evektor+eurostar+.html - $46k

Eurostar is the older version of SportStar, basically. Great airplane, although 800 hours, hmm.... The RANSes need no presentation, I trust.

There is also a bunch of Zenith 601, which I bypass because of the wings and tails falling off in flight (which can be OWT but whatever).

One curious thing is this Star:
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_631178_Star+Sport+E-LSA+2005.html - $45k
I never saw one though, never met anyone who flew one, so...

If you're patient, you can find a much better deal, but I'm just demonstrating what the expansion of the budget buys you. At $30k it was an impossible task, at $50k it's merely difficult.

-- Pete
 
SkyHog said:
Ok - remove the TW restriction...now what am I looking at?
Click to expand...
Well, the first thing are Sonexes, of course. Just make sure they actually comply with LSA rules about Vs0, in writing. Those easily comply with your speed requirements, although not sure about payload. They are all above $30k though.

Next come Seareys, if you're into that. They are very slow, like slower than Cub slow, but ton of fun, great community, etc. etc. They are very close to blowing your "faster than a car" requirement. Texas freeways are just too good. If you relocate to Florida or Louisiana, though...

There's also a pretty RANS S-7 for sale for $27k. It's a little bit faster than a Cub, toe brakes. Sadly, Jabiru engine on that one.

P.S. I habitually discard Cub and its ilk, because I cannot fly one in front (knees against the dash), I hate flying from the back, and the gymnastics required to enter are not compatible with my wife. Also, that 1946 airplane thing again. Now a 1995+ Champ is a different matter, but good luck finding one for $50k.
 
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