Which aircraft

[Richard]

Which would you pick and why.

1958 Piper PA-22 IFR


1966 Beech A-23-24 Super Musketeer III VFR

I purposely left out condition of aircraft exterior/interior and engine times. Mission would be Pt 91 long x/c, 2 adults.

 

[Dean]

Which would you pick and why.

1958 Piper PA-22 IFR


1966 Beech A-23-24 Super Musketeer III VFR

I purposely left out condition of aircraft exterior/interior and engine times. Mission would be Pt 91 long x/c, 2 adults.

I would pick the Super Musketeer, 200HP, faster than the PA-22 and LOTS MORE ROOM! for those long X/Cs.

 

[poadeleted20]

If I absolutely had to choose, I'd choose the Tri-Pacer simply because taking long XC's in a non-IFR airplane is asking for trouble -- either you get stuck by weather a lot, or you start making bad decisions. However, unless the Tri-Pacer has had substantial panel upgrades (including a standard-T instrument layout and reorganization of the radios so they aren't on the other side of the cockpit), I'd be a bit uncomfortable flying IFR in it -- the original panel layout is highly IFR-unfriendly.

 

[poadeleted3]

Super Mouse. Lot's more room, comfort, power, and mission flexibility.

But, bearing Ron's comments in mind, only if you are willing to pay to upgrade it to IFR capability, or are a VFR only pilot.

 

[poadeleted20]

Super Mouse. Lot's more room, comfort, power, and mission flexibility. But, bearing Ron's comments in mind, only if you are willing to pay to upgrade it to IFR capability, or are a VFR only pilot.

Who do you think you are -- Cadet James T. Kirk taking the Kobiyashi Maru test? You don't get to modify the conditions of the test if you're not.

 

[Len Lanetti]

Who do you think you are -- Cadet James T. Kirk taking the Kobiyashi Maru test?

As there are typically more than 2 used aircraft for sale at any given time...I'd find the best example of an aircraft I'd really want to fly that cost about the same as either of these aircraft.

Len

 

[Anthony]

Who do you think you are -- Cadet James T. Kirk taking the Kobiyashi Maru test? You don't get to modify the conditions of the test if you're not.

I would change the conditions of the test by picking totally different aircraft. But that's just me, YMMV, IMHO, IIRC, AFAIK, etc.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Which would you pick and why.

1958 Piper PA-22 IFR


1966 Beech A-23-24 Super Musketeer III VFR

I purposely left out condition of aircraft exterior/interior and engine times. Mission would be Pt 91 long x/c, 2 adults.

To buy or to rent?

 

[Richard]

Boys! Stop it, return to your seats....now! Why can't you be more like Dean and Ron?

I picked those two because they have similar performance and payload although the Piper is significantly less in purchase price. But if you want to substitute make and model please offer up your suggestions. Stay within afore defined performance and price, please.

 

[Len Lanetti]

Grumman Traveler.

Len

 

[poadeleted20]

I picked those two because they have similar performance and payload although the Piper is significantly less in purchase price. But if you want to substitute make and model please offer up your suggestions. Stay within afore defined performance and price, please.

What's the price range? Vref gives a baseline of $18,500 for a 1958 PA-22, and $24,250 for a 1966 BE23A. Ain't gonna find much of a Traveler in that price range (a 1972 first year model baselines at $29,000). In fact, for a 2-person traveling machine (i.e., 400+ cabin load and 300-400 mile range with reserves), you're pretty limited if you want a reasonably modern panel and IFR equipment. Even a 1968 Cherokee 140B (first year with the modern panel) comes in at $27,100. Sure you can't bump up to the $30K range?

 

[poadeleted3]

Boys! Stop it, return to your seats....now! Why can't you be more like Dean and Ron?

I picked those two because they have similar performance and payload although the Piper is significantly less in purchase price. But if you want to substitute make and model please offer up your suggestions. Stay within afore defined performance and price, please.

The Tripe has the same payload as the 200 hp Super Mouse??!!! Either the Tripacer is on a serious diet, or the Super Mouse needs someone to take the cinderblocks out of the baggage area LOL. The Super Mouse should carry a couple hundred pounds more than the Tripe, in the neighborhood of 1050 pounds. Especially if it's only got VFR only avionics.

 

[poadeleted3]

What's the price range? Vref gives a baseline of $18,500 for a 1958 PA-22, and $24,250 for a 1966 BE23A. Ain't gonna find much of a Traveler in that price range (a 1972 first year model baselines at $29,000). In fact, for a 2-person traveling machine (i.e., 400+ cabin load and 300-400 mile range with reserves), you're pretty limited if you want a reasonably modern panel and IFR equipment. Even a 1968 Cherokee 140B (first year with the modern panel) comes in at $27,100. Sure you can't bump up to the $30K range?

A Super Mouse should run in the $50-$60K range, judging strictly from the prices I see in all my sales ad daydreaming. A Tripacer should be quite a bit less than that.

IMHO, either the Tripacer is overpriced, or the Super Mouse is bargain basement priced, which would cause me to wonder why? Is it clobbered, corroded, or engine run out?

As much as I like flying the Tiger, and assume I'd like flying the Traveller since it's pretty much the same plane, I'd still take the Super Mouse over top of that. Prices are roughly comparable, the Super Mouse is a little faster (though at the cost of more fuel), carries WAY more, and is WAY roomier. And the Super Mouse doesn't carry the same engine issues with it that the 165 hp Cont powered Musketeers do.

Gotta look out for Musketeers that have been upgraded from 165 hp to 200 hp, though, as Phil Kriley found out with the first Super Mouse he looked at. They were having some pretty serious issues getting that approved, IIRC.

 

[Richard]

What's the price range? Vref gives a baseline of $18,500 for a 1958 PA-22, and $24,250 for a 1966 BE23A. Ain't gonna find much of a Traveler in that price range (a 1972 first year model baselines at $29,000). In fact, for a 2-person traveling machine (i.e., 400+ cabin load and 300-400 mile range with reserves), you're pretty limited if you want a reasonably modern panel and IFR equipment. Even a 1968 Cherokee 140B (first year with the modern panel) comes in at $27,100. Sure you can't bump up to the $30K range?

I hadn't yet looked at Vref but I talked last night with a guy selling his A23-24 and he said he was firm on his $39.9K asking price because he's getting lots of interest right now. Stock VFR panel, 152 TTE, exterior 2/10, 2 year old interior, $3,900 annual last month, typical annual $1,800.

 

[Richard]

The Tripe has the same payload as the 200 hp Super Mouse??!!! Either the Tripacer is on a serious diet, or the Super Mouse needs someone to take the cinderblocks out of the baggage area LOL. The Super Mouse should carry a couple hundred pounds more than the Tripe, in the neighborhood of 1050 pounds. Especially if it's only got VFR only avionics.

From risingup.com

Beech Super III Musketeer (A-23-24)
Horsepower: 200.0000Gross Weight: 2550 lbsTop Speed: 137 ktsEmpty Weight: 1410 lbsCruise Speed: 130 ktsFuel Capacity: 60.00 galStall Speed (dirty): 52 ktsRange: 643 nm

TakeoffLandingGround Roll: 950 ftGround Roll 660 ftOver 50 ft obstacle: 1380 ftOver 50 ft obstacle: 1300 ft

Rate Of Climb: 880 fpmCeiling: 14850 ft

Piper PA-22 160 Tri-Pacer
Horsepower: 160.0000Gross Weight: 2000 lbsTop Speed: 123 ktsEmpty Weight: 1110 lbsCruise Speed: 117 ktsFuel Capacity: 36.00 galStall Speed (dirty): 42 ktsRange: 435 nm

TakeoffLandingGround Roll: 1035 ftGround Roll 650 ftOver 50 ft obstacle: 1480 ftOver 50 ft obstacle: 1280 ft

Rate Of Climb: 800 fpmCeiling: 16500 ft

 

[poadeleted20]

I hadn't yet looked at Vref but I talked last night with a guy selling his A23-24 and he said he was firm on his $39.9K asking price

For around $40K, you can get a nice Traveler, with a standard-T panel and IFR avionics. Not as big a payload or cabin width as the A23-24, but a significantly smaller fuel bill, equal speed, and more than enough payload, range, and baggage volume (especially with the back seat flopped down) for your stated needs. The only issue might be range, as the Traveler's 37-gallon tanks are only good for about 4+20 endurance, which means 3-hour IFR or 3+30 VFR legs, but at 115 KTAS, that's not bad.