Where to fly to, Los Angeles (downtown)

MAKG1

MAKG1

Touchdown! Greaser!
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MAKG
Looks like my kid got into the state science fair. It's located at the California Science Center in South Central, at the end of next month (April).

So, now I get to plan an airplane trip. Thoughts are SMO (interesting town) or HHR (easier airport). BUT, it's becoming marine layer season, and neither airport has good instrument approaches. So, IF there is low IMC, the best options appear to be LGB, TOA, and BUR, all of which have ILSs and decent LPVs. I'm presuming LAX is out of my price range, and CPM seems to have nothing going for it at all.

The Science Center does not look easy to get to, except perhaps via Uber or rental car. The Metrolink doesn't go anywhere near it, and RTD has never been useful. Hotels used to be scarce except right next to LAX. Is that still true?

I'll probably be in a Cardinal RG or something similar.

Advice from locals?
 
Whiteman is easy to fly into and a short taxi ride into downtown. I used it for a conference once.
 
John221us said:
Whiteman is easy to fly into and a short taxi ride into downtown. I used it for a conference once.
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Short taxi ride on the Golden State Fwy? Even in Monday morning rush?

I haven't lived there in 30 years, but that seems like it might work at 2AM on a Tuesday....

I've flown into WHP before (for a trip to Hollywood), and I agree it's easy to deal with. IF you know where the F they moved the terminal to; it's no longer in front of transient parking. Seems a little far from South Central, though.
 
If the weather is good, Compton is the closest. HHR has steep parking fee's, but the LPV approach has pretty low minimas if you're so equipped. Two ways to avoid the ramp fee's there, call either Beach Cities Aviation (flight school) or Security Aviation (maintenance facility) and ask if you can park on their ramp. Will be cheaper. Fullerton is another airport reasonably close, again no ILS. Torrance probably your best bet if you need an ILS. Long Beach a little closer, but I just never much like going there because the controllers are di*cks.
 
I'd plan SMO with LGB as a backup if the marine layer gets too low.
 
HHR LPV has straight-in minima at 500 AGL. That's not very low, and wouldn't have gotten me in this morning. Almost every airplane I have access to (ALL the rentals -- a couple of CAP planes don't) has a WAAS GPS, so the LPV is almost certainly an option.

Thanks for the tip about calling Beach Cities. Do they take kindly to strangers parking there for three days and not buying anything? The taxi diagram shows "transient parking" near the 25 numbers. Is that fiction?

I've dealt with jerk controllers before. One even wrote me up on a PD for following his instructions (he got assigned "remedial training" for it). Doesn't scare me unless they get unsafe. LGB has the advantage of having lots of rental car options.
 
LGB had that one guy we liked to call Tower Todd that was a total d*ckhead, but otherwise they seemed fine to me. I still think SMO is a cool, interesting airport to fly into, especially considering its days are numbered. There are going to be days you can't get in of course, but I think you'll get in more often than not - just have that ILS backup option somewhere.
 
VNY? I have no idea if it meets the criteria, I just know it exists.
 
eman1200 said:
VNY? I have no idea if it meets the criteria, I just know it exists.
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It's an option, but I'd go to Whiteman first. Barely 5 miles away and a whole lot easier to deal with.

SMO is sounding like a nice option. It's a lot easier to get into than anything south of LAX, from the north. I'll just have to deal with the diversion if IMC is an issue. That VOR minimum is really high, and it surprises me there is nothing else. SMO could benefit greatly from an LPV.
 
stratobee said:
HHR has steep parking fee's
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HHR is my downtown go to. Los Angeles Jet Center @ HHR is $30/night and $30 ramp fee but waived with fuel...but yeah, you can get cheaper transient parking at CPM. Been to HHR quite a few times, super nice folks and great burger joint attached to FBO terminal. SMO you will have a $25 landing fee right outta the gate just for the privilege of landing there so not much savings...but of all my So Cal trips proximity is much more valuable than saving a few bucks cash.

For VFR arrival, the LAX Mini Route drops you right into HHR left downwind for 25. Easy peasy from the north.

I believe LAX is $150 landing fee for a single plus FBO ramp fees.

Regardless of where you go, Uber is ALL over down there and a very efficient way to get around from any of the airports.

If weather ceiling limits your options and you need lower, BUR or LGB would be where I head next and either one of those would depend on when I am landing and what four wheel traffic will be doing at that time. As you probably know...BUR to downtown can royally suck in traffic.
 
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Torrance to downtown is about a 1 hour 20 minute commute between 7:30-9am.

SMO will probably have better hotel options.

Public transit in all of LA is a joke unless you're already downtown and need to skip around down there.

I am ignorant of the area off airport around HHR, so that might be a viable option if the area doesn't suck... but I'm not aware of anywhere in Hawthorne that is somewhere I'd want to be.
 
MAKG1 said:
HHR LPV has straight-in minima at 500 AGL. That's not very low, and wouldn't have gotten me in this morning. Almost every airplane I have access to (ALL the rentals -- a couple of CAP planes don't) has a WAAS GPS, so the LPV is almost certainly an option.
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I think it's not very often that 500' wouldn't get you in. End of April could be May gray/June gloom type weather. 800-1500 overcast with possible clearing in the afternoon.
 
LGB - Pacific Jet Center.
Had a meeting in LGB one night on a long day after having to fly CRQ-CMA-BFL-LGB (dropped the wife off at home at BFL) and came in to rent a car through them.... they told me that the rental car thing can be a PITA sometimes and gave me their Navigator for two nights for $25 + fuel.

Great people, cool FBO, no BS arrivals.

I'll gladly use them again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Agreed with Tampico Trauma - LGB or TOA would be fine. But note that LAX, TOA, LGB are all coastal, so if marine layer is affecting one, it will likely be affecting all. I would plan an alternate further inland like EMT. That would still get you close enough to the California Science Center that you could Uber or Lyft it.
 
If the fog creeps in like it has the last couple of nights, you wouldn't get to the runway at minimums. I think the METAR for LAX and LGB right now are like VV001
 
rtk11 said:
Agreed with Tampico Trauma - LGB or TOA would be fine. But note that LAX, TOA, LGB are all coastal, so if marine layer is affecting one, it will likely be affecting all. I would plan an alternate further inland like EMT. That would still get you close enough to the California Science Center that you could Uber or Lyft it.
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Keep in mind, I'm instrument rated, current and proficient. I can handle an ILS or LPV (or a nonprecision approach) through marine layer. What I don't really want to handle is a missed approach and diversion. The VOR approach at SMO looks entirely inadequate.

ircphoenix said:
If the fog creeps in like it has the last couple of nights, you wouldn't get to the runway at minimums. I think the METAR for LAX and LGB right now are like VV001
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Right now, all regional airports are reporting 3-4 miles in mist, except LGB, which is reporting 600 RVR (yikes!). I won't be able to get there this early. It's a 2+ hour flight and it's only 9AM. All these METARs are an hour old, too.
 
MAKG1 said:
Keep in mind, I'm instrument rated, current and proficient. I can handle an ILS or LPV (or a nonprecision approach) through marine layer. What I don't really want to handle is a missed approach and diversion. The VOR approach at SMO looks entirely inadequate.


Right now, all regional airports are reporting 3-4 miles in mist, except LGB, which is reporting 600 RVR (yikes!). I won't be able to get there this early. It's a 2+ hour flight and it's only 9AM. All these METARs are an hour old, too.
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If it is just the marine layer in April, you'll be fine. That usually hangs out around 800 agl. But if we get a hot day and cool night in there, fog will be an issue. Usually the super heavy fog doesn't show up till June though. You should be good. Let us know what you decide.

I love my home drome at TOA, and feel like it is a great airport to fly in to if you need to go somewhere in the South Bay... but there are no amenities on the field and the first decent hotel nearby isn't quite walking distance. Overnight transient fees are $15 last I checked.

And traffic blows trying to get into downtown unless you're on the road by 7am.
 
Downtown LA - two options actually - Burbank - and El Monte. Believe it or not there is commuter train service to both airports more or less.

Burbank has a Metrolink train station - across from the pax terminal - time your arrival right and its $8 to downtown. Drops you off at Union Station. Atlantic will be happy to drop you off - or to loan you their courtesy if you're only gonna be a couple hours - traffic on the 5 can be a real nightmare - so I'd recommend the train over Uber unless its between 10 and 2.

El Monte is another interesting choice because its a few miles from DARTS intersection which is a major Nav point coming south GA. KEMT has free transient parking, fuel is not too bad - and its a 15 min walk from transient parking to El Monte train station - which has service to Union Station on the San Bernardino line - And from a safety perspective its not bad -

PS: NOBODY wants to go to Compton - the city of Compton is where the riots started in 1992 - NOBODY flies to Compton for any reason either - there is NOTHING there and I would be concerned just driving from the airport to the freeway.

As for the Science Center- its RIGHT by USC - just south of campus and the rose garden - there is what used to be a Hilton on Figueroa Street and 32 maybe?

If you decide to NOT rent a car - and parking downtown is confiscatory - you can more than pay for Uber by not parking - if you stay in downtown hotel - the city subway service can actually get you to the Science Center- take the Expo line from 7th St. Metro center to Exposition Park - its a 5 min walk. . . .
 
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Well, I'm killing time now during science fair judging. I opted to fly into Long Beach and park at JFI. Cheapest fuel and only Sunday rental car I could find. It was a really short walk to Enterprise.

LGB treated me reasonably, but I had some issues with SoCal. Every controller wanted me to repeat intentions for Class B transition. I told each one I'd overfly Dodger Stadium and duck under the Class B shelf. But I got restricted to 3500 (too high), and bawled out by the last controller for not staying my intentions (!). It seems they really wanted me to say "Mini Route." After requesting a VFR descent to 2000, I finally got told the magic words were "LA River transition," which is not published. Then I got dropped. I contacted Long Beach Tower just south of City Hall, and tower didn't seem to know where it was (it's charted and labeled on the TAC). They asked for a cardinal direction (northwest) and then instructed to remain at or above 2000. That's in Class B. Unable.

So, no busts, no real problems, but it was much more challenging than previous SoCal trips.
 
FOR LGB next time without the hassle...try the Coastal Route @ 5500' SB. Once past LAX VOR they will usually let you descend at pilots discretion before hitting the exit point if requested. The floor there is only 5K then you are clear for own nav. I do that route regularly into FUL and overfly LGB. MUCH calmer and easier flight than dodging Bravo to the east in my experience.
 
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Shawn said:
FOR LGB next time without the hassle...try the Coastal Route @ 5500' SB. Once past LAX VOR they will usually let you descend at pilots discretion before hitting the exit point if requested. The floor there is only 5K then you are clear for own nav. I do that route regularly into FUL and overfly LGB. MUCH calmer and easier flight than dodging Bravo to the east in my experience.
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We'll, the point was to do some sightseeing around downtown.

I did the return on the Mini route.

I've popped out the coastal route to go to Torrance before.
 
MAKG1 said:
Keep in mind, I'm instrument rated, current and proficient. I can handle an ILS or LPV (or a nonprecision approach) through marine layer. What I don't really want to handle is a missed approach and diversion. The VOR approach at SMO looks entirely inadequate.
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Is there something I'm missing? What's wrong with this?
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1705/05023R21.PDF
 
MAKG1 said:
Look at the orig date. It's TODAY.

That approach didn't exist when I made the flight a few days ago.

Yes, it's a big improvement.
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Yeah, AOPA even made a big fuss about those going in, on their email spam. I was chuckling when I read it because I could tell it missed helping you by only a few days.
 
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