When you win the AOPA Commander...

drhunt

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Moose Air
I know that several here are already expecting to take delivery. When you do, how will you determine the market value in order to settle up with the IRS? AOPA typically posts a figure "valued at $xxxxx", but in reality, who would pay that much? Usually the prize planes are loaded with goodies well beyond other examples in the market. For example I think the highest Commander 112 on the market now is listed at $165,900. The AOPA 112 will probably be valued at more than $200K. But I doubt that you could ever sell it for that, thus I don't think that the figure represents "fair market value". Anyway, I was just curious as to how you folks and your accountants are going to work that out. ;)
 
drhunt said:
Anyway, I was just curious as to how you folks and your accountants are going to work that out. ;)
I think AOPA's number is what they have in the plane: The purchase price, plus the value of all the donated labor/parts/equipment that they have installed, plus hard costs they have incurred if they actually had to buy some stuff. That is a supposition; anyone know for sure?

We do know that the market value of a plane does not go up buck for buck as you spend for improvements. Therefore, the plane is indeed worth less than AOPA's number on the open market.

When I win my Commander, I will probably get (read: pay for) a market value appraisal of the aircraft to establish its value. That will be a difficult assignment for the appraiser as there is no such thing as a comparable Commander out in the fleet.

Then I may have to negotiate with the IRS for a value somewhere between AOPA's number and the appraisal number.

-Skip
 
I'd just sell my other plane.

Oh...wait. I don't HAVE another plane. Guess I'm not winning the Commander then! ;)
 
Skip Miller said:
When I win my Commander, I will probably get (read: pay for) a market value appraisal of the aircraft to establish its value. That will be a difficult assignment for the appraiser as there is no such thing as a comparable Commander out in the fleet.

Then I may have to negotiate with the IRS for a value somewhere between AOPA's number and the appraisal number.

-Skip

I am not positive, but I believe you will receive a W-2 from AOPA with
whatever value they determine on it as income to you.

Good luck on your negotiations with the IRS. :(

I never win anything so I don't have to worry about it.

greg
 
Brian Austin said:
I'd just sell my other plane.

Oh...wait. I don't HAVE another plane. Guess I'm not winning the Commander then! ;)

I just flipped a quarter several times to estimate my odds of winning -- 0:5.. that would make 1:400K odds something slightly more difficult than totally impossible.

I never win anything however if I did somehow magically win, it'd be up on the block that afternoon and I'd milk it for every penny I could. No matter what, I would absolutely refuse to take less than the total due taxes (and any tax interest) on it. Worst case scenario, the irs/state/county/city/landlord/whoever will own a decent plane and they can't touch me or anything I own beyond that.
 
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river_rat said:
I am not positive, but I believe you will receive a W-2 from AOPA with
whatever value they determine on it as income to you.

Good luck on your negotiations with the IRS. :(

I never win anything so I don't have to worry about it.

greg
It wouldn't be a W-2 since it's not wages. They probably have to do a 1099. The value you report to the IRS, has to match what they put in the 1099.

That thing ought to worth enough to buy into an R44 partnership :yes:
:heli:
 
My 99 Archer was Flying Magazine's prize plane to another individual. I purchased it in 2000 and unfortunately I failed to ask him how much he had to cough up to the IRS and how it was valued. I was reading the latest article in AOPA and it shows past planes and their "current" owners. Most have been sold and squaring up with the IRS was probably part of the reason in many cases.
 
If I win I will declare the tie down spot or the hanger where I park it the embassay of the soverign nation of Bahdabing. Thus making anything I park there tax free. Ahh if it were only that easy!!! Seriously, I'd like to keep it but I'd also like to pay for my daughters college. What ever I do I would consult with my CPA and take his advice. Not sure but I think you can dispute the value of an item on a 1099. I'll defer to the CPAs though.
 
guys guys guys...dont worry bout it...its already in the bag...:D:D:D:D:D

I'll worry about that after I've taken delivery.

Muahahahahaha.
 
Well you can do income averaging, so if you're in the highest tax bracket like most of us are, you can spread the windfall over the past 5 years or so, where you were in the highest tax bracket, saving nothing. No charge for that tax advice. :rolleyes:

I'd like to think I could get a loan against the plane for the 28%(? Thank you, GW) federal + (3% income tax here plus ~10% use tax) state tax bill and then take on a partner or two to help pay it off.

The guy who won the Comanche last year was the first in a very long time who managed to keep it. He was flying a J3 and something else and had just retired.
 
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RotaryWingBob said:
It wouldn't be a W-2 since it's not wages. They probably have to do a 1099. The value you report to the IRS, has to match what they put in the 1099.

I'm not sure a 1099 is required when a gift is transferred. In any case I believe that the IRS would have to accept a proper appraisal or perhaps some combination of multiple appraisals (the cost of which you could deduct:D). The cost to the giver isn't relevant AFaIK. For instance if you purchased a diamond for 1/2 or twice it's real value and then gave it to me (hint hint) I'd be paying on the value of the gift, not it's cost.
 
I just doubled my chances of winning! Well I joined my wife up and have double the 'family' chances of winning. :)
 
I'd sell it ASAP. I wouldn't even want to look at it.

Theres nooway I'd make enough to cover the taxes for anything.

I'd then take whatever I had left to buy the cheapest, most fuel efficent plane I could find. I'd fly the heck out of it until I had the hours for my commercial, than sell it.

If I had anything left, It'd be for college.
 
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I'd be awfully tempted to find a way to keep it; Bill Suffa seems awfully fond of his turbo Commander, and the capabilities they are building in are mighty nice.

I'd call Bill up for a raft of "how to use it best" advice; and Bill being the kind of guy he is, I bet he'd share it, too!
 
I mentioned that to the AOPA guy at Oshkosh. Im in the same boat. He said, "don't you have someone who could claim it for you?" I said "as a matter of fact, yes." I then thanked my father for giving me his name.

Tony Condon II
 
robsingles said:
I can't win, have to be over 21. BOo!

I have never heard the 21 or over requirement. That would not be fair to the members under 21.
 
Paul Allen said:
I have never heard the 21 or over requirement. That would not be fair to the members under 21.

Maybe not. But it sure makes the odds better for those of us over 21

:D
 
SkyHog said:
Maybe not. But it sure makes the odds better for those of us over 21

:D

Your right on that one. I'm 50 so it won't be a problem for me. It's still not right for dues paying members under 21. I guess life is not always fair.
 
SkyHog said:
Maybe not. But it sure makes the odds better for those of us over 21

:D

And you could actually win, Nick, as you already own a plane!
 
Hm.. the 21 thing does suck.

Oh well. Maybe I'll win the sportys (not sure if they have a 21 age limit)
 
SkyHog said:
Maybe not. But it sure makes the odds better for those of us over 21

:D
Right. I say only members older than 54 should qualify! And I just happen to be slightly older than 54:D.
 
jangell said:
Hm.. the 21 thing does suck.

Oh well. Maybe I'll win the sportys (not sure if they have a 21 age limit)
Since the give away is actually a sweepstakes it would be state regulation which prohibits under 21. Also, the odds are not 1:400K or how many members there are. The odds of winning are lessened dramatically since anyone may enter and as often as they like. The catch is each entry needs to be mailed separately. This came about because of the Caltech (either Caltech or maybe MIT) students sued for their Harrier jet in a sweepstakes during the late '70s.

If I should spend $10K in postage for multiple entries to increase my chance of winning it is legal to do so. But the real odds buster is current ownership of another a/c, something everyone already knows.
 
oh well. actually I don't even think I have a current AOPA membership. I had the free student one and I get letters now about twice a week for the past 6 months asking me to renew for whatever the cost is ($40?).. Just can't really justify it yet.
 
lancefisher said:
Right. I say only members older than 54 should qualify! And I just happen to be slightly older than 54:D.
I think it ought to be 62, Lance. If you're collecting Social Security then you deserve a free plane B)
 
SCCutler said:
I'd be awfully tempted to find a way to keep it; Bill Suffa seems awfully fond of his turbo Commander, and the capabilities they are building in are mighty nice.

I'd call Bill up for a raft of "how to use it best" advice; and Bill being the kind of guy he is, I bet he'd share it, too!

Flys sweet, and with the turbo you can take it high & get a bit more airspeed.

If you don't already own one, first thing to buy is an oxygen system.
 
drhunt said:
I know that several here are already expecting to take delivery. When you do, how will you determine the market value in order to settle up with the IRS?
I already have the appraisal scheduled. After that's done I'll write a check to the Feds and one to the state, and try to find a bigger hangar, as I don't expect the thing will fit in the dinky little T I've got now.

But actually, I'd rather win EAA's Husky on floats sweepstakes plane.
 
Ken Ibold said:
But actually, I'd rather win EAA's Husky on floats sweepstakes plane.

Does just joining EAA enter you for that one, or do you have to do something else to get in on that?
 
...I'll move the 172 from the hangar to tie-down space and fly the Commander until it wouldn't hold replacement parts anymore! :goofy:

In all seriousness though, I couldn't see myself selling that airplane. If I were given any other airplane I probably wouldn't have a hard time flipping it and taking the proceeds to do whatever with, but not that Commander. Probably because if I won it, it'd be the first time I've ever won one of these types of contests and therefore be something that would be very hard for me to part with.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Does just joining EAA enter you for that one, or do you have to do something else to get in on that?
Joining enters you. And then a couple times a year they send 9 pre-printed coupons to you and ask you to send them back with a donation to Young Eagles and other education programs. They ask for $1 or more per coupon, but you don't have to add any donation if you don't want to.
 
Richard said:
Since the give away is actually a sweepstakes it would be state regulation which prohibits under 21. Also, the odds are not 1:400K or how many members there are. The odds of winning are lessened dramatically since anyone may enter and as often as they like. The catch is each entry needs to be mailed separately. This came about because of the Caltech (either Caltech or maybe MIT) students sued for their Harrier jet in a sweepstakes during the late '70s.

If I should spend $10K in postage for multiple entries to increase my chance of winning it is legal to do so. But the real odds buster is current ownership of another a/c, something everyone already knows.
I was not aware that you could enter multiple times. I hate to tell everyone this but the individual that won my current plane (99 Archer) in Flying Magazine's giveaway submitted 3000 entries! That was $1K in postage then and a whole lot of time writing/mailing. The US Postal Service will now send customized postcards from electronic submissions so maybe if AOPA accepts "suitable substitute" entries, you could send USPS the e-form, AOPA's address and a whole lot of $$$ and they could fire off a bunch of entries for you ;) Good luck to everyone. I guess my odds are up by way of already being an owner. If I won, I'd have say that I'd probably part with my beautiful, sweet, reliable, still nearly new Archer as a "turbo" Commander would be a plus in my area with 13K MEAs in all directions.
 
drhunt said:
I was not aware that you could enter multiple times. I hate to tell everyone this but the individual that won my current plane (99 Archer) in Flying Magazine's giveaway submitted 3000 entries! That was $1K in postage then and a whole lot of time writing/mailing. The US Postal Service will now send customized postcards from electronic submissions so maybe if AOPA accepts "suitable substitute" entries, you could send USPS the e-form, AOPA's address and a whole lot of $$$ and they could fire off a bunch of entries for you ;) Good luck to everyone. I guess my odds are up by way of already being an owner. If I won, I'd have say that I'd probably part with my beautiful, sweet, reliable, still nearly new Archer as a "turbo" Commander would be a plus in my area with 13K MEAs in all directions.
Anyone having a sweepstakes by law must provide an entry form. Sometimes that entry form is in a magazine or mailed separately or you must sendSASE with written request. I don't remember if a facsimile of the entry form is accepted, it's a state thing so check your state.

There is a lot of other stuff in how to improve you chance of winning in a sweepstakes but basically it is multiple entries which does it. To prohibit non-members from entering is exclusionary, therefore, prohibited. The host may include certain criteria (EX: must be at least student pilot before entering)

So you're competing for the grand prize not just against the AOPA membership but anyone who meets any criteria they (AOPA or their agents) have established AND all the multiple entries of everyone who plays that game.

If I were serious about winning I would figure on spending several thousands of dollars on entries. I would not be surprised if more than a few folks spend tens of thousands of dollars on multiple entries. It's the dark little secret of any sweepstakes and it is perfectly legit.



FYI
TRIVIA

I did a quick google search and came up MT.

IIRC, current sweepstake regs originated after an amazing lawsuit brought against Coca-Cola by a group of college students (I want to say Cal Tech, but maybe it was MIT) in the mid- to late '70s.

Coca-Cola (maybe it was McDonalds) held a sweepstakes in which the grand prize was a Harrier jet. The college students found there was no law to prevent them from photocopying the official entry form. I think it was over 10,000 entries the students submitted. And since there was no law to prevent it, they sent all the entries under one postage.

C-C cried foul. Their defence was pretty comical and as the trial progressed more and more of America was rooting for the little guy, ie, the students. First, C-C said it wasn't fair of the students to send so many entries. But no law had broken. Then C-C said it had to be one entry per envelope. Again, no law was broken and such instructions were not included on the entry form. I seem to remember C-C also said the USPS acted in collusion with the students to commit fraud.

Later, C-C tried to laugh it all off as a big joke. They argued everyone and their brother (except the college students, that is) knew there was no way a civilian would get their hands on a Harrier. The rebuttal was if the Harrier wasn't the prize then what was? And there must have been a winner (as yet unnamed) so was it the students? Or was C-C committing a fraudulent sweepstakes?

The case was settled for a high six figure amount.

DISCLAIMER: as evidenced from certain posts of mine of the last few months it seems my memory is shot to hell. The reader is reminded that the above may or may not be entirely or partially true and therefore yours truly shall not be held accountable for the veracity, or lack thereof, of the above. However, it does derive from a true event and it is a good story.
 
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Richard said:
IIRC, current sweepstake regs originated after an amazing lawsuit brought against Coca-Cola by a group of college students (I want to say Cal Tech, but maybe it was MIT) in the mid- to late '70s.

Coca-Cola (maybe it was McDonalds) held a sweepstakes in which the grand prize was a Harrier jet. The college students found there was no law to prevent them from photocopying the official entry form. I think it was over 10,000 entries the students submitted. And since there was no law to prevent it, they sent all the entries under one postage.
Are you sure you're not thinking about the Pepsi Points promotion in the mid 90s? There was a Harrier in that one that was labeled in the commercial as something like 10 million points. But you could buy points instead of simply buying Pepsi, and someone figured out you could buy the points for the Harrier a lot cheaper than you could buy the Harrier. It had been meant as a joke by the ad agency.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Are you sure you're not thinking about the Pepsi Points promotion in the mid 90s? There was a Harrier in that one that was labeled in the commercial as something like 10 million points. But you could buy points instead of simply buying Pepsi, and someone figured out you could buy the points for the Harrier a lot cheaper than you could buy the Harrier. It had been meant as a joke by the ad agency.
I remember that but that's not it.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Are you sure you're not thinking about the Pepsi Points promotion in the mid 90s? There was a Harrier in that one that was labeled in the commercial as something like 10 million points. But you could buy points instead of simply buying Pepsi, and someone figured out you could buy the points for the Harrier a lot cheaper than you could buy the Harrier. It had been meant as a joke by the ad agency.

I also recall that, before they secured a binding ruling that the "joke" nature of the Harrier offer was really a joke and not binding, they had made contingent arrangements for a decommissioned Harrier.

Like, what would anyone do with *that*?
 
lancefisher said:
Right. I say only members older than 54 should qualify! And I just happen to be slightly older than 54:D.
Lance, you misspelled 53 . . . ;)
 
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