When C.R.M. goes bad

U

Unregistered

Guest
I don't believe in bashing people online. In fact, I don't believe in speaking negatively about poeple if they're not around. So this isn't meant to do that. In my short time on this forun I 've learned quite a abit from you guys and it's time for me to give back.

Yesterday I went to do a x-country to practice some good old pilotage with a fellow student who would spilt the cost. He flew the outbound leg and I flew the return leg. As I leveled out in cruise and leaned out the mixture I realized the engine was running kinda rugged. I looked at the egt and it was pinned on the high side so I richened the mixture and saw the needle was comming back down. Fine. About 20 minutes later the engine sputtered. I asked him if he felt it and he said it was turbulence. Last I checked turbulence never made an engine sputter. Slight variances in r.p.m. from gusts yes, but never sputter. Especially when the air is as smooth as glass. I realized the guy was in denial so I started looking for a place to put it down if things really went south which wasn't a problem because we were in very engine faiure friendly territory. Lots and lots of open fields. A few minutes later it damn near stopped and reved up to the red line. I had an airstrip in sight and decided to go for it so I cancelled my flight following and diverted. In these situations you come up with a quick plan and execute it. I had mine and he and his but they were 2 different ideas. Neither were bad, just different. We were at 3500' so we had plenty of altitude in case the engine failed so I switched over the field's frequency and told them what we were doing. At this point the yelling began. I did the only thing could at the moment which was to block him out and execute what I had intended. A slip on right base, a steep spiral down to right above pattern altitude and a 2 mile final. It all came together and I got us down safely despite all of his yelling and questioning. Then came the flare...I crab in and slip in the flare in a crosswind whereas he slips all the way in. When he started yelling about the rudder I got distracted and at this point pretty angry and kangaroo hopped walf way down the runway.

The reason im writing this is to show how important communication is. WHen that breaks down thing can start to suck really fast. Instead of carrying on he could have helped somehow. Take the radios, go thru the checklist, etc. I could have made things go a lot more smoothly.

Stay alive
 
Ugh. I feel ya. Its frustrating when flying with someone who fears slips, and doesn't understand them. This emergency situation is precisely the reason I advocate practicing slips and slipping turns whenever possible.

Without practicing them, you'd have been screwed. As for the friend? Its never good to fight in the air, been there, done that. I would suggest a post flight debreif, followed by a punch in the face.
 
"STFU I'm PIC" Is sometimes a good response. The better response of course would have been having a good in depth discussion before taking off, but in these cases that is very rare. It would seem that once you were established in loosing altitude that you could have explained
 
"STFU I'm PIC" Is sometimes a good response. The better response of course would have been having a good in depth discussion before taking off, but in these cases that is very rare. It would seem that once you were established in loosing altitude that you could have explained

I agree, Scott. I find that a very short discussion on the ground about who's responsible for what usually solves everything. If I'm in the right seat (and not being a CFI, I've only been in the left seat in a helo a hand full of times :) ) then what I like to establish is that my job is to fly the aircraft, and the left seat pilot (assuming I trust them!) does navigation and works the radios. The controls are mine unless I explicity ask the other pilot to temporarily take them, he acknowledges, and I repeat that he has the controls. Reverse that for when I take them back.
 
Yesterday I went to do a x-country to practice some good old pilotage with a fellow student who would spilt the cost.

When you say student--do you mean that both of you are legally student pilots?
 
The only thing I fear worse than an in flight emergency is an IFE with someone trying to distract me like that!!
Hey, good job on handling both!
 
When you say student--do you mean that both of you are legally student pilots?

The way I read it (I hope I'm right), is that they're both students at a school where flight training occurs.

I sure hope I'm not wrong. But, this is anonymous...
 
"STFU I'm PIC" Is sometimes a good response. The better response of course would have been having a good in depth discussion before taking off, but in these cases that is very rare. It would seem that once you were established in loosing altitude that you could have explained

The "pilot iso" setting on the intercom is also an option.

I've explained to my wife that whenever I flip that switch it means I have to concentrate on flying/communicating and cannot have any distractions.
 
Um, that's a really good question, y'all - IS he a student pilot (pre-ppl)? And if so, did he and another pre-ppl student just conduct two illegal flights?

And yeah, an STFU, followed by a post briefing would be good. I'd be trying as hard as I could possibly try to avoid the punch in the face.
 
The "pilot iso" setting on the intercom is also an option.

I've explained to my wife that whenever I flip that switch it means I have to concentrate on flying/communicating and cannot have any distractions.

And she hasn't figured out yet that it comes on everytime she brings up something you don't want to talk about?
 
When you say student--do you mean that both of you are legally student pilots?

Yes. We're both going for commercial after finishing the IR. Your basic pilotage gets rusty after flying IFR for a while, then everythig in the commercial syllabus is back to VFR.
 
Learning to be "a good SIC" is an important lesson, just as important as being a good PIC. As far as I'm concerned there wasn't any CRM on this flight. CRM starts before the flight by defining roles and responsibilities (I'll fly the airplane and make the decisions, you'll support by handling ATC, looking for traffic, and making me aware of anything pertinent to the situation).

I think that you could have helped matters by briefing your plan (I'm going to land at this field, slipping to lose altitude as needed"), but otherwise you did a good job of handling the emergency.

Your copilot panicked, and was obviously not ready to act as an SIC. That's not an indictment of him as a person or a pilot - he just wasn't ready, and there's no reason to expect him to be ready.

Being part of a two person crew takes a lot of practice. I've only got a little experience at it from doing some angel flights and LOFT sim work, and I know that it takes a strong will to suppress the urge to ACT.

I'd suggest that you and your fellow student agree that you need to work on crew coordination if you're going to fly together, and see if you can find a greybeard CFI/Examiner/ASC who's flown as part of a crew, and go ask him/her for some tips.
 
And she hasn't figured out yet that it comes on everytime she brings up something you don't want to talk about?

Shhhhh ...


Actually, the biggest problem is wind. I usually have the canapy at least part way open. Non-pilot passengers always seem to have the mic where it picks up a lot of wind noise.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top