Wheels up landing w/video

I've got to wonder how insurance is gonna play it though. He didn't get three in the green, so he elected to go gear up instead. Would that be a fault against him for future insurability?
 
Unit74 said:
I've got to wonder how insurance is gonna play it though. He didn't get three in the green, so he elected to go gear up instead. Would that be a fault against him for future insurability?
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Not sure what the alternative would be.
 
Unit74 said:
I've got to wonder how insurance is gonna play it though. He didn't get three in the green, so he elected to go gear up instead. Would that be a fault against him for future insurability?
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The article said that the airport sent another plane up...I assume that plane confirmed an actual landing gear issue and not just an indicator issue but the article didn't delve into that.

Regardless I don't see how a pilot could be faulted for deciding to land gear up, which is typically far safer than landing on two legs.
 
timwinters said:
The article said that the airport sent another plane up...I assume that plane confirmed an actual landing gear issue and not just an indicator issue but the article didn't delve into that.

Regardless I don't see how a pilot could be faulted for deciding to land gear up, which is typically far safer than landing on two legs.
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What I inferred was they had 2 of the three wheels down. I'd guess the mains were down, but even then, I understand his decision.

Would a small GA single (Arrow, Mooney, Bonanza, etc.) nose over if landed on the mains with no nose wheel? Probably not, but would you take the chance?

Now if it was the nose wheel and one main, no way I want to land on that.
 
Bill Jennings said:
What I inferred was they had 2 of the three wheels down. I'd guess the mains were down, but even then, I understand his decision.

Would a small GA single (Arrow, Mooney, Bonanza, etc.) nose over if landed on the mains with no nose wheel? Probably not, but would you take the chance?
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If'n ya got a nose wheel, the center of gravity will be in front of the mains so it's going to end up on it's nose at some point in the landing. From a damage point of view...maybe the mains save some skin damage - dunno if it would be enough to matter, maybe someone who has been through it can share?
 
Bill Jennings said:
What I inferred was they had 2 of the three wheels down. I'd guess the mains were down, but even then, I understand his decision.

Would a small GA single (Arrow, Mooney, Bonanza, etc.) nose over if landed on the mains with no nose wheel? Probably not, but would you take the chance?

Now if it was the nose wheel and one main, no way I want to land on that.
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the article said it was the right main that wouldn't extend and he was worried about veering off the runway.
 
Insurance companies can play what-if all they want. I can do the same. What if I left the partial gear down, veered off the runway, flipped over, caught fire, killed us both? Now tell me I should have stowed the gear and landed on the belly. Pilots do what pilots do - fly the plane. Insurance companies do what they do - collect premiums and pay claims.
 
rbridges said:
the article said it was the right main that wouldn't extend and he was worried about veering off the runway.
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Having done that, at least on pavement veering off the runway usually isn't much of an issue since you should have a good working brake of the extended wheel. Mine was right down the center line, as soon as It started to turn I applied a little brake to stop it.

Brian
 
Clark1961 said:
If'n ya got a nose wheel, the center of gravity will be in front of the mains so it's going to end up on it's nose at some point in the landing. From a damage point of view...maybe the mains save some skin damage - dunno if it would be enough to matter, maybe someone who has been through it can share?
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It wasn't a single, but I landed a Cessna 320 with the nosegear retracted and the mains down. The reason was... I can't quite remember. It was a long time ago. I think that's what it said in the checklist and I was pretty new to the airplane. I don't think I even considered landing with all the gear retracted even though the airplane sits pretty tall on its gear, relatively speaking. Pretty sure we didn't even come close to flipping over. I knew that the nosegear was not extended. It was confirmed by the tower as trailing at a 45 degree angle. All I can say is that I'm glad that it was in the days before cellphone video and media interest! The only people who were watching were the people at the airport.

I'll add that the airplane survived to fly again a month or two later. AFAIK it's still around.
 
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I was the pilot. The club mechanic came up in one of our other aircraft and confirmed an issue with the right main. "2 down, 1 up" vs "3 up" was discussed at length over the radio, and among the 8 or so very experienced club pilots who were gathered on the ground after hearing about the problem. "3 up" was both my preference and theirs.

We circled for about 90 minutes to burn off fuel (ran the right tank dry), during which time eight fire engines, two ambulances, a few police cars and about half the population of the local town turned up to watch.

Shut off the master on short final to try and prevent any sparking from the soon-to-be-smashed belly strobe, and pulled the mixture to try and minimise engine damage when I was just a few feet up and fully committed. Not sure how much difference it made, guess we'll see on the tear-down. Still bent the prop.
 
Hope you don't get a bill for emergency responders. But you prolly will. That's why there's insurance. Exactly what I would have done in the same situation.

They all walked away, plane was carted off, airport was opened in a short time, and not a fingernail was hung. Perfect, perfect, perfect.
 
Katamarino said:
I was the pilot. The club mechanic came up in one of our other aircraft and confirmed an issue with the right main. "2 down, 1 up" vs "3 up" was discussed at length over the radio, and among the 8 or so very experienced club pilots who were gathered on the ground after hearing about the problem. "3 up" was both my preference and theirs.

We circled for about 90 minutes to burn off fuel (ran the right tank dry), during which time eight fire engines, two ambulances, a few police cars and about half the population of the local town turned up to watch.

Shut off the master on short final to try and prevent any sparking from the soon-to-be-smashed belly strobe, and pulled the mixture to try and minimise engine damage when I was just a few feet up and fully committed. Not sure how much difference it made, guess we'll see on the tear-down. Still bent the prop.
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Great job on the landing. You made the right choice. Better to bend a prop, and have a little road rash then risk injury. :thumbsup:
 
Katamarino said:
I was the pilot. The club mechanic came up in one of our other aircraft and confirmed an issue with the right main. "2 down, 1 up" vs "3 up" was discussed at length over the radio, and among the 8 or so very experienced club pilots who were gathered on the ground after hearing about the problem. "3 up" was both my preference and theirs.

We circled for about 90 minutes to burn off fuel (ran the right tank dry), during which time eight fire engines, two ambulances, a few police cars and about half the population of the local town turned up to watch.

Shut off the master on short final to try and prevent any sparking from the soon-to-be-smashed belly strobe, and pulled the mixture to try and minimise engine damage when I was just a few feet up and fully committed. Not sure how much difference it made, guess we'll see on the tear-down. Still bent the prop.
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if you don't mind, keep us posted. I'm curious to know what the engine tear down results are.
 
Well done sir...any indication why it stuck? I always pay closer attention when I own a similar aircraft.
 
ScottK said:
The guy did a nice job.
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What's missing is no mention of a low pass near a tower to confirm gear extension. When I got my Aztec during my training the same thing happened. Couldn't get a light on (I think) the nose gear. Instructor took us to a towered field, they confirmed extension. we left it out hanging and flew back to our home field and called it a day.

Turned out to be a intermittent microswitch.
 
Jeff K said:
What's missing is no mention of a low pass near a tower to confirm gear extension. When I got my Aztec during my training the same thing happened. Couldn't get a light on (I think) the nose gear. Instructor took us to a towered field, they confirmed extension. we left it out hanging and flew back to our home field and called it a day.

Turned out to be a intermittent microswitch.
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Jeff - we did both a low pass over the club members on the ground, and a formation flight with another club aircraft containing a mechanic to inspect the gear as closely as possible.
 
Unit74 said:
I've got to wonder how insurance is gonna play it though. He didn't get three in the green, so he elected to go gear up instead. Would that be a fault against him for future insurability?
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I've got a specific higher deductible for gear up landings... which if I know I've got a gear issue is waived (and yet another reason to talk with a tower in these cases).

As to future insurability... can't answer that but I doubt it.
 
Katamarino said:
Jeff - we did both a low pass over the club members on the ground, and a formation flight with another club aircraft containing a mechanic to inspect the gear as closely as possible.
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Well there you go, the last element. Great job. (and I see the formation flying checkout was mentioned in the story... sorry I missed that).

Shutting off the masters I can say from experience is a good idea... in my accident my full tip tank hit a curb, burst and at the same time the tip nav light shattered igniting 17 gallons of AVgas that was already mixing with air.
 
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You made it on the ground safely, that's what matters. And given that, I would have landed gear up intentionally, too. Well done! :thumbsup:

One thought: There was an Aerostar and a helicopter that had a mid-air collision and crashed (killing everyone on both aircraft) when attempting a formation flight to check the gear some years back. If you and the other plane are familiar with formation flying, then I'd say no problem, but otherwise you've added another risk factor to the day. Just food for thought should this happen to them. I'd decline any formation flying, but would ask the tower for what it looks like to them.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
One thought: There was an Aerostar and a helicopter that had a mid-air collision and crashed (killing everyone on both aircraft) when attempting a formation flight to check the gear some years back. If you and the other plane are familiar with formation flying, then I'd say no problem, but otherwise you've added another risk factor to the day. Just food for thought should this happen to them. I'd decline any formation flying, but would ask the tower for what it looks like to them.
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Ted, that's an excellent point. We actually discussed that by radio in advance. Our mechanic is also our chief pilot, and experienced in formation, and I had also had some formation training in the past so we elected to go ahead with it. Agreed entirely that in the absence of that experience, it shouldn't be attempted!
 
Great job. There but for the grace of God go I.

Did it sound as awful inside as it did outside the plane?



.
 
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That really was a nice landing. My question is did you lift your feet up or were you pressing on the brakes?
 
The noise inside was not bad at all, perhaps because we still had our headsets on.

It doesn't look like the tire had anything to do with it; an early inspection looks like a mechanical issue in the undercarriage messed up the geometry and jammed the gear in.

I had a phone interview with two FAA inspectors today. They were very friendly and straightforward, complimented the results, and let me know that they would not be needing anything more from me, or taking any further action.
 
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