Whats the Merchant Marine

AdamZ

AdamZ

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Adam Zucker
Can someone please explain the Merchant Marine to me? Local paper had a photo of a young man just returned from training in Asia with the Merchant Marine. As I understood it the Merchant Marine is basically sailors who sail on merchant ships rather then Navy Ships. I know there is a Merchant Marine Academy up in Cape Cod and and think one in NY. Do you need an appointment to the merchant Marine Academy?

They have uniforms but I don't think they are military yet my neighbor who served in the Merchant Marine in WWII got some veterants benefits. And then they use the term "Served" in the merchant marine.

Is it like the public health service where it is a non military alternative for public service?

Henning would problaby know this. Anyone?:dunno:
 
The Surgeon General is an officer in the Merchant Marine which is why they wear that uniform.

And No, I don't know exactly where it fits in the DOD....but Google....

The Merchant Marine is the fleet of ships which carries imports and exports during peacetime and becomes a naval auxiliary during wartime to deliver troops and war materiel. According to the Merchant Marine Act of 1936: "It is necessary for the national defense... that the United States shall have a merchant marine of the best equipped and most suitable types of vessels sufficient to carry the greater portion of its commerce and serve as a naval or military auxiliary in time of war or national emergency..." During World War II the fleet was in effect nationalized, that is, the U.S. Government controlled the cargo and the destinations, contracted with private companies to operate the ships, put guns and Navy personnel (Armed Guard) on board. The Government trained the men to operate the ships and assist in manning the guns through the U.S. Maritime
http://www.usmm.org/faq.html
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Sooo like the Civil Air Patrol is an auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force, the MM is an auxiliary of the U.S Navy.
 
How do you become a Merchant Captain? Well you don't just go out and buy a 200,000 ton coastal vessel and hold out. Nobody will insure you.

You can go to SCHOOL and, as in MMA( http://www.mainemaritime.edu/ ) go to SEA and then start as a junior officer on a Merchantman. If you don't screw up, and if you survive the knifings in port (this stuff is REAL) you eventually become a skipper.

The old way is Dead. Insurance contracts see to that. Federal Wartime Authorities organize the merchantmen and their skippers into a military structure and that's the Merchant Marine.
 
At one time, you also could be discharged into the Merchant Marine from the Navy or Coast Guard. Your MM rank would depend on your military rank or rating, your time in grade, amount of sea time, etc.

I don't know if that is still true, however.

Rich
 
Any ship carrying cargo from US port to US port must be US flagged, crewed by a majority of US Citizens and is considered to be part of the merchant marine fleet. There is the commercial fleet and the government owned fleet. To be a crewmember in the merchant marine you jump through specific hoops, even on civilian, commercially-owned vessels.

Basically, any American-flagged vessel carrying passengers or cargoes on the open seas is part of the merchant marine.
 
Great book on the merchant marine, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0374523193/ref=nosim/themillions-20

It is a dying institution as most of the spots on ships are being filled by cheaper foreign workers and there are very few American flagged vessels. I know that the MM has been federalized for war support in the past such as in WW2 but I had never heard of being discharged from the military into the MM I suppose it is possible considering that the MM is an auxiliary to the Navy. Lots of info on Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Merchant_Marine
 
Where's Henning Heinemann? He can tell you anything you want to know about MM, and how to become a Captain(marine type).

HR
 
I shared a house after college with a graduate from the US Merchant Marine Academy at King's Point while we were both working on subs. He was quite a capable individual involved in overhauling the distilling plants on board (fresh water).

http://www.usmma.edu/default.asp
 
Steve said:
I shared a house after college with a graduate from the US Merchant Marine Academy at King's Point while we were both working on subs. He was quite a capable individual involved in overhauling the distilling plants on board (fresh water).

http://www.usmma.edu/default.asp
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I'm glad you made that clear with the parenthetical there. Otherwise, I'd be out the door and on my way to enlist in the Navy by now. ;)
 
smigaldi said:
Not Navy, Merchant Marine...and I thought the same thing until I saw the parenthetical.
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If there were that kind of distillation facility on board, I wouldn't find it necessary to differentiate between the two. :D
 
AdamZ said:
Can someone please explain the Merchant Marine to me? Local paper had a photo of a young man just returned from training in Asia with the Merchant Marine. As I understood it the Merchant Marine is basically sailors who sail on merchant ships rather then Navy Ships. I know there is a Merchant Marine Academy up in Cape Cod and and think one in NY. Do you need an appointment to the merchant Marine Academy?

They have uniforms but I don't think they are military yet my neighbor who served in the Merchant Marine in WWII got some veterants benefits. And then they use the term "Served" in the merchant marine.

Is it like the public health service where it is a non military alternative for public service?

Henning would problaby know this. Anyone?:dunno:
Click to expand...

A Merchant Marine is basically a seaman in the commercial seafaring trade rather than in a combat navy. There is NO direct link (however there is an indirect link I'll hit later)to DOD except that they are licensed or carded by the USCG, and during war the USCG falls under DOD, otherwise they fall under DOT.

There are three department divisions of MMs, Deck, Engineering and Stewards. There are also multiple levels within the departments.

Deck ranks run from O/S or Ordinary Seaman, this is your first rating when a green new hire. 120 days later, you are able to sit for a test which makes you an A/B or Able Body Seaman. Next depending on the size of the vessel you are on, in a couple of years you can apply to test for a Mates License entering the officers ranks, and a specified time later you can apply to test for a Masters license. This system of coming through the ranks is called "Coming up the hawse pipe". You can also attend one of the Merchant Marine Academies (no appointment required, works like a 4 year university) and graduate with a Third Mate Unlimited Tonnage license. The same basic system goes for the Engineering ratings entering in as a Wiper, progressing to Oiler then QMED(Qualified Memeber of Engineering Department) then the licensed Engineers ratings from Second thru Chief. Chief Engineer is the Second in Command on a vessel, not the Chief Mate BTW. Again, there are Academy programs which you graduate with an entery level engineers license. The Stewards Department is in charge of the upkeep of the living quarters of the vessel and feeding the crew & pax and starts with FH (Food Handler, basically a waiters job) and goes through Purser and on Cruise Ships with large Stewards Departments will go up to Crew Captain.

Now, the indirect link. The USN also ownes and contracts operation of MSC (Military Sealift Command) vessels which serve to support the US Armed Forces in typically non combat rolls, though we do enter combat theaters. The Seamen on these vessels are civilians even though they are operating USN owned vessels. MSC duty requires a Top Secret level security screening, the application is a big fat book. MSC also contracts other civilian US flagged vessels which is how I was involved with them towing barges loaded with USMC gear. Navy guys make fun of us until we bring them Ammo and Ice Cream, then they're nice.:p The Marines always love us.
 
What Henning said.

When I was in the Navy, what is now MSC was called MSTS - Military Sea Transportation Service. I was assigned to a cargo ship (a reheated WW2-era Victory ship) with the job of carrying Polaris missles (in shipping containers - no way to fire them), assorted warheads, and all other general supplies back and forth between Charleston and the sub tenders in Holy Loch and Scotland. We had a crew of about 170.

There were also two MSTS ships that did the same mission with a crew of about 6. Aside from a few automatic gizmos they hung on the boilers, the only substantive difference is that we did our own stevedoring at each end, whereas the MSTS ships obtained the labor at each end. The MSTS runs were much less expensive than ours because of the difference in crew size. The MSTS ships ran back and forth across the Pond like shuttle busses. The only time we had to make a run was when they went into the Yard for overhaul. Not being dummies, they usually scheduled their "annuals" in the middle of the winter. The only thing I will say is that everything you may have heard about the North Atlantic in the winter is, in reality, worse than that. Ugh. Twice we were nearly sunk by storms.

Once a forklift truck broke free in #4 hold and was careening around puncturing cargo on pallets and the side of the ship. Ultimately the bo'suns were able to lassoo it and tie that doggie down. We then discovered that some of the punctured barrels contained (against all regulations and NOT listed on the bill of lading) some highly volatile and flammable cleaning fluid, which soon you could smell in every compartment in the ship. The Smoking Lamp is Out!!!

The second time was when we pounded (bow rises high on one wave, then crashes down on the next one) what proved to be a 6x6 foot hole in the bottom underneath #2 hold. It opened into a fuel tank. The 1" steel plate of the bottom opened up like a can opener but, fortunately, the top of the tank, 1/4" steel, held. That same series of rogue waves knocked the Jack Staff (essentially a 3" dia pipe flag pole on the bow) horizontal with the deck, and ditto with the bulwark where the hull rises above the forcastle.

Ultimately the Navy decommissioned my ship, and let the MSTS carry on. I assume with the advent of the Poseidon program, with longer range missles, it is no longer necessary to have maintenance bases for the boomers in Scotland and Spain, but.. that's a guess.

-Skip
 
I have a friend who graduated from the MM academy as an engineer, and now runs an ISP.

I guess that there weren't any jobs that she wanted available.

~ Christopher
 
jwriteclub said:
I have a friend who graduated from the MM academy as an engineer, and now runs an ISP.

I guess that there weren't any jobs that she wanted available.

~ Christopher
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I bet not, there aren't any pleasant jobs in the engineering department. The thing is the going to the academies is a lot like going to ALL ATPs. When you're done, you have the paper, but you have no qualification or experience. I've gotten some mates out of the academies who were basically clueless, so you have to send them out on the deck so they can learn the jobs.
 
smigaldi said:
Department of Homeland Security is where they reside now.
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Huh, right you are, just looked at my latest license renewal, and sure enough, where it used to say Department of Transport, it now says Department of Homeland Security.
 
Henning said:
...The thing is the going to the academies is a lot like going to ALL ATPs. When you're done, you have the paper, but you have no qualification or experience. I've gotten some mates out of the academies who were basically clueless, so you have to send them out on the deck so they can learn the jobs.
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I'd have thought that the Academies would have thier students out to Sea at least a semseter or two as upper classmen.
 
mikea said:
The Surgeon General is an officer in the Merchant Marine which is why they wear that uniform.

And No, I don't know exactly where it fits in the DOD....but Google....



Sooo like the Civil Air Patrol is an auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force, the MM is an auxiliary of the U.S Navy.
Click to expand...

The Surgeon General is the top officer in the the U.S. Public Health Service and has no connection to the Merchant Marine.
 
Of course virtually no one knows who they are. It's not quite as prestigious as the Marines, or the Air Force, or NOAA, or . . .

~ Christopher
 
AdamZ said:
I'd have thought that the Academies would have thier students out to Sea at least a semseter or two as upper classmen.
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They do a couple of very brief cruises where they learn nothing except how to hit a target while puking. It was kind of sad last time I was coming down from Long Island, I saw the Empire State at the scrap yard in Norfolk. She was the USMMA Kings Point training ship. Now what happens is they get out on a ship doing an internship cruise (basically you get them for a month) and they wind clocks and update charts which is basically what they will do as a Third Mate which is what they will be licensed as when they graduate, they get NO real boat handling experience. Remember the Exxon Valdez? There was an academy graduate who insisted on passing the wrong side of a light even though the A/B was telling them they were on the wrong side of that light....
 
jwriteclub said:
Of course virtually no one knows who they are. It's not quite as prestigious as the Marines, or the Air Force, or NOAA, or . . .

~ Christopher
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Though in WWII, who do you think the U boats were shooting at? Wasn't the Navy ships for the most part....
 
AdamZ said:
I'd have thought that the Academies would have thier students out to Sea at least a semseter or two as upper classmen.
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Maine Maritime shows cruises are mandatory for some courses. Mass Maritime also has similar requirements. http://www.maritime.edu/
I'd think of the academies as another specialty training college. Some are better at it than others. Maine Maritime also shows a ROTC program.
USCG Academy also requires trips on the Barque Eagle.
There's nothing like practical experience to firm up book learning.
 
My grandfather served in the MM during WWII. He was a wiper. Don't know what he wiped, or why, but that's what he was. I have his paybook, which records every trip, every ship, mostly coastal stuff along the Atlantic seaboard. Had a great uncle in the MM out in the Pacific. I've read his letters home advising his brother (my other grandfather) to be damn glad he had a deferment and didn't have to serve in the war.
 
flyersfan31 said:
My grandfather served in the MM during WWII. He was a wiper. Don't know what he wiped, or why, but that's what he was. I have his paybook, which records every trip, every ship, mostly coastal stuff along the Atlantic seaboard. Had a great uncle in the MM out in the Pacific. I've read his letters home advising his brother (my other grandfather) to be damn glad he had a deferment and didn't have to serve in the war.
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A Wiper "wipes down" in the engineering spaces. He follows around the "Oiler" who oils things. It's a constant evolution. If you think that's bad, on coal stoked vessels they had "Black Gangs" (not a racial term) that moved coal from the bins to the boiler spaces and shovelled coal into the boilers. Dante and Heronimous Bosch couldn't imagine worse.
 
flyersfan31 said:
My grandfather served in the MM during WWII. He was a wiper. Don't know what he wiped, or why, but that's what he was. I have his paybook, which records every trip, every ship, mostly coastal stuff along the Atlantic seaboard. Had a great uncle in the MM out in the Pacific. I've read his letters home advising his brother (my other grandfather) to be damn glad he had a deferment and didn't have to serve in the war.
Click to expand...

What ships was he on? My great-grandfather captained large cargo in WWI and WWII, once in the Navy and again as a MM, and finished his career out driving NY->Cape Town->Bermuda.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
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