What's the airspace below restricted?

[dreaming89]

Hello

Im referring specifically to R-4006 in southern Maryland, which according to the sectional begins at 3,500 MSL. The sectional says to contact patuxent approach prior to entering. I'm assuming I don't need to have any contact with them as long as I'm below 3,500 MSL?

Also if you look at foreflight and at KCGE you'll notice an orange line outside of another orange line. I'm not sure what this outward orange line signifies, as the inner orange line seems to follow the normal restricted airspace marking on a sectional.

So, if I'm flying at 3,000 MSL from KCGE to KTGI am I in class echo the entire time? I would avoid R 4002

Thanks in advance!

 

[luvflyin]

Hello

Im referring specifically to R-4006 in southern Maryland, which according to the sectional begins at 3,500 MSL. The sectional says to contact patuxent approach prior to entering. I'm assuming I don't need to have any contact with them as long as I'm below 3,500 MSL?

Also if you look at foreflight and at KCGE you'll notice an orange line outside of another orange line. I'm not sure what this outward orange line signifies, as the inner orange line seems to follow the normal restricted airspace marking on a sectional.

So, if I'm flying at 3,000 MSL from KCGE to KTGI am I in class echo the entire time? I would avoid R 4002

Thanks in advance!

you'd be out of 4006. The orange line is just the border of the R area. There is R-4008 that has a floor of 25,000 so it doesn't show up as the usual Blue toothed line on the Sectional because it's above 18,000. You're probably looking at ForeFlight. Turn off the Aeronautical map and just look at the Sectional. Then turn Aeoronautical back on, Sectional off and IFR High on. You'll get the "picture"

 

[GeorgeC]

You can fly to Tangier at 3000 and not talk to anybody, but it's worth being on flight following with pax anyway; sometimes the R areas are cold.

 

[flyingron]

Even if they are hot, sometimes they can arrange a temporary hold for you to transit.

 

[dreaming89]

Thank you all very much!

 

[BigBadLou]

Even if they are hot, sometimes they can arrange a temporary hold for you to transit.

Exactly.
I often quiz my student pilot friends for fun and I've found out that they treat P, R, W and A areas the same as MOAs, they simply avoid them like the plague. I often send them back to the books to study the difference (which is apparent from the names, btw) and many of them get surprised that you could potentially get a permission to transition an R area.

Benjamin, good question.
Now go fly and have fun!

 

[mscard88]

Exactly.
I often quiz my student pilot friends for fun and I've found out that they treat P, R, W and A areas the same as MOAs, they simply avoid them like the plague. I often send them back to the books to study the difference (which is apparent from the names, btw) and many of them get surprised that you could potentially get a permission to transition an R area.

Benjamin, good question.
Now go fly and have fun!

I used to check on R areas at Eglin and if they were cold I requested to operate in them with my students. Actually was sweet because there was no other traffic and had to monitor approach so unlikely to see another plane.

 

[luvflyin]

I used to check on R areas at Eglin and if they were cold I requested to operate in them with my students. Actually was sweet because there was no other traffic and had to monitor approach so unlikely to see another plane.

Yeah. It's pretty common to get through even if they don't change the NOTAM. Especially when the folk workin the Restricted Area and the folk workin Approach are in he same building

 

[Palmpilot]

So, if I'm flying at 3,000 MSL from KCGE to KTGI am I in class echo the entire time? I would avoid R 4002

On that route, everything between 700 or 1200 AGL and 18,000 MSL is class E airspace. As a rule, restricted areas don't change the class of airspace.

 

[luvflyin]

On that route, everything between 700 or 1200 AGL and 18,000 MSL is class E airspace. As a rule, restricted areas don't change the class of airspace.

The 'question' finally got answered. Come to think of it I don't recall ever seeing a Restricted Area or any other Special Use Airspace changing the class of airspace. Are there some?

 

[flyingron]

It can't on it's own. Special Use airspace creation is independent of the creation of controlled airspace. I suppose they could be done in the same rulemaking, but due to the different players involved, I can't imagine it happens.

 

[iamtheari]

The 'question' finally got answered. Come to think of it I don't recall ever seeing a Restricted Area or any other Special Use Airspace changing the class of airspace. Are there some?

In Canada, special use airspace is Class F. So the answer to your question is affirmative, although probably not anywhere in the USA.

 

[flyingron]

Canadian class F airspace is a perturbation of the ICAO rules. It really isn't a form of controlled airspace, just a designation as to what we'd call Restricted/Prohibited / Warning (the Canadians call the latter Danger Areas) Areas. They treat it as controlled or not depending on what it is. It's a completely different beast than real ICAO Class F which exists neither in the US nor Canada. ICAO class F is uncontrolled.

 

[iamtheari]

Canadian class F airspace is a perturbation of the ICAO rules. It really isn't a form of controlled airspace, just a designation as to what we'd call Restricted/Prohibited / Warning (the Canadians call the latter Danger Areas) Areas. It's a completely different beast than real ICAO Class F which exists neither in the US nor Canada.

I won't argue with that. But it nevertheless is an example of an airspace class changing because of restricted or other special use airspace. I posted that more for trivia purposes than anything else. But for similar trivia purposes, does real ICAO Class F airspace actually exist anywhere? The Wikipedia article for "Airspace class" does not give any examples of a country using Class F airspace, except for Canada and a note that the U.K. got rid of its last Class F airspace in 2014.

 

[flyingron]

Gone in UK and Germany. They replaced it in Germany with a RMZ (sort of in line with our old Airport Traffic Areas).

 

[luvflyin]

In Canada, special use airspace is Class F. So the answer to your question is affirmative, although probably not anywhere in the USA.

AH HA! The mystery of the jump from E to G with no F to be accounted for is solved.