What would you do?

Richard

Richard

Final Approach
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Ack...city life
Scenario: Non-towered airport. You depart RWY 15 for a left downwind departure then to the west. Multiple landing traffic from the east entering left base RWY 15. Additional traffic entering on long straight-in final RWY 15.

You announce you will level off at airport elevation plus 600' and extend downwind to fly under and behind landing traffic. Just before turning left base you see landing traffic same altitude at your 3 o'clock, 200 yards.

Would you a) have climbed through the TPA or, b) stayed below TPA? Explain.

Right turn after departure RWY 15 is not an option.
 
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My answer...I wasn't thinking clearly. I SHOULD have made an early turn to left base to overfly the numbers (RWY 15). Doh!
 
Richard said:
My answer...I wasn't thinking clearly. I SHOULD have made an early turn to left base to overfly the numbers (RWY 15). Doh!
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That is what I was just about to say. Stop drinking all that Gran Marnier prior to lift off and you would have seen that sooner!!! :D
 
smigaldi said:
That is what I was just about to say. Stop drinking all that Gran Marnier prior to lift off and you would have seen that sooner!!! :D
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But in this 8% humdity I get so thirsty. I already drank all my beers...my room mate's too!
 
I'm confused... if you were departing to the west, why were you getting onto base for 15?
 
I don't understand why you chose to level off at what sounds like 200' below pattern altitude. I'd much rather see planes that are flying pattern legs be at TPA.

In answer to your question, I'd probably have done a straight-out departure and climbed to an altitude where a right turn was possible, if that was an option. You said right turns weren't allowed but one would think a right turn would be possible sooner or later.

Barring that, I think I'd have done a left crosswind departure, circled around while climbing and crossed the field to the west at 2000' AGL -- announcing my position fairly frequently.
 
Richard said:
Scenario: Non-towered airport. You depart RWY 15 for a left downwind departure then to the west. Multiple landing traffic from the east entering left base RWY 15. Additional traffic entering on long straight-in final RWY 15.

You announce you will level off at airport elevation plus 600' and extend downwind to fly under and behind landing traffic. Just before turning left base you see landing traffic same altitude at your 3 o'clock, 200 yards.

Would you a) have climbed through the TPA or, b) stayed below TPA? Explain.

Right turn after departure RWY 15 is not an option.
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Climb to pattern altitude, make a 45 (right or left -- in this case, left), Fly a bit to get away form the local traffic, then resume on course heading.

A lot less complicated and IAW AIM recommended procedure.
 
Maybe it's because it is Monday morning....but it seems to me that there are a lot of unnecessary transmissions in this thread. I do not, and never have taught, announcing my intentions after takeoff. AC 90-66A tells us what to do, and we should follow it and expect others to comply as well.

Bob Gardner
 
What direction do you actually want to go?

In any event, leveling at 600 AGL and buzzing along low over the neighbors isn't one of the options I'd recommend. Regardless of what I was doing laterally, I'd be climbing all the way.
 
bobmrg said:
Maybe it's because it is Monday morning....but it seems to me that there are a lot of unnecessary transmissions in this thread. I do not, and never have taught, announcing my intentions after takeoff. AC 90-66A tells us what to do, and we should follow it and expect others to comply as well.

Bob Gardner
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My departure call was always:

Podunk traffic, NXXX, departing runway 22 for straight out (left downwind, left base, etc.) departure, Podunk.
 
I would continue to climb well above TPA while heading downind then turn from 330 to 270 west once I'm well above the traffic in the pattern .
 
bobmrg said:
Maybe it's because it is Monday morning....but it seems to me that there are a lot of unnecessary transmissions in this thread. I do not, and never have taught, announcing my intentions after takeoff. AC 90-66A tells us what to do, and we should follow it and expect others to comply as well.

Bob Gardner
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I've found that if I'm staying in the pattern or near the airport, I like to let others know what I'm doing. It makes me uncomfortable to be in the pattern or near the airport and be silent. Letting the other traffic know that I am departing and where I'm heading seems helpful.

I was in the pattern this afternoon. Another pilot departed on 01. As he did so, he announced that he was departing and added "left downwind departure". It didn't take more than a couple of seconds but let me know what his plans were.
 
To not continue the climb was a boneheaded move on my part. That decision was made worse by not turning left base over the numbers on the approach end. Several factors influenced my decision to level off below TPA:

One, that same scenario worked like a charm on a preceeding flight where I was one of the arrivals. I was reluctant to climb through TPA due to multiple arrivals.

Two, the company owner has made it known he strenuously objects to any pilot making a right crosswind departure or extended departure leg when departing RWY 15. Yes, he insists upon left turns when using RWY 15 to leave the patt to the west. The CP is hands off--doesn't care/get involved.

I'm not making excuses for compromising flight safety just because someone said to do it a certain way. I'm PIC, I happened to have made a bad decision this time. I hate to say it but I think fatigue caught me off guard. That plus it's a constant battle against dehydration here. Not an excuse...just saying how it is.

Also, it's desert, nothing but scrawny foxes and jackrabbits under the downwind. Upwind of RWY 15 is the city.
 
qbynewbie said:
I've found that if I'm staying in the pattern or near the airport, I like to let others know what I'm doing. It makes me uncomfortable to be in the pattern or near the airport and be silent. Letting the other traffic know that I am departing and where I'm heading seems helpful.

I was in the pattern this afternoon. Another pilot departed on 01. As he did so, he announced that he was departing and added "left downwind departure". It didn't take more than a couple of seconds but let me know what his plans were.
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Ditto. When I was going to let the neighbor see our houses from the air I just said as I turned from my climbing 45 crosswind departure to a wide climbing "downwind" "nnn Traffic Cherokee will be maneuvering east of the airport two thousand seven hundred." I was motivated because a guy was making calls saying he was goin to transition the field at 2500, which of course is all wrong. :rolleyes: He said he'd stay west of me.
 
if departing... i'm always climbing... try to get above TPA asap! just keep climbing and fly away!
 
Richard said:
Two, the company owner has made it known he strenuously objects to any pilot making a right crosswind departure or extended departure leg when departing RWY 15. Yes, he insists upon left turns when using RWY 15 to leave the patt to the west. The CP is hands off--doesn't care/get involved.
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The owner of what company? The one that owns the plane you're flying professionally? The owner of the FBO from which you're renting? The owner of the airport?
 
I'd probably wonder why traffic on base is a factor for a plane on crosswind and would be spotted at 3 o'clock.

Unless you mean they were making left base for runway 33 I'm confused (big time confused here). Could you draw a picture?
 
Owner = the guy who signs my paychecks.

Departing and arriving traffic using RWY 15. Departures are all left turns to eventually head west. Left crosswind, left downwind, left base...all RWY 15. Arriving traffic is from the E, NE, and straight-in RWY 15.
 
Blackhawk C150 said:
Do you anounce them prior to take off?
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You mean me? I announce prior to departure, while holding short of the departure RWY: "(Callsign) will be left downwind departure to the west climbing 5,500." I then call each leg until west of the extended centerline. Then I am flying away from arriving traffic and away from the airport. I monitor at that point with only a couple position reports after that.

Throughout the day there can be times of heavy volume of tour traffic arriving and departing. We all know each other's routes (well, most of us do) so a truncated position/intention report is all that is required most of the time. Sometimes though, like when a hapless transient or brain-tired tour pilot enters the fray, the flow can get jumbled quickly.

RE: radio calls. The most annoying is the pilot who feels he has to report passing every rock and bush and in doing so steps on those aircraft trying to coordinate their ARR/DEP in the pattern.
 
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Richard said:
Owner = the guy who signs my paychecks.

Departing and arriving traffic using RWY 15. Departures are all left turns to eventually head west. Left crosswind, left downwind, left base...all RWY 15. Arriving traffic is from the E, NE, and straight-in RWY 15.
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The owner of what? Are you a professional pilot working for someone who owns a plane you fly? If so, and you value your job, you don't cross the boss unless you'll violate an FAR in doing so.
 
It seems to me that flying the pattern 200 ft. below pattern altitude leaves you open to having someone begin their descent over the top of you. If you don't want to fly the pattern at pattern altitude because of the potential for conflict with traffic joining the pattern, why not climb through pattern altitude? There might be a conflict with someone overflying the field at 500 ft above pattern altitude, but that's probably only one plane vs. the many at pattern altitude.
 
Richard said:
My answer...I wasn't thinking clearly. I SHOULD have made an early turn to left base to overfly the numbers (RWY 15). Doh!
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This is what I would do and seems obvious to me, mostly because it's how I fly at my home base, KCCB, uncontrolled. Off of runway 24, left crss, left dwnwnd, and lft at the numbers. I don't even call it base, just "turning North over the numbers". SOP at that airport. I'm passing through TPA on downwind, and steady climbing. I would not consider going below TPA, especially across base. I am however, a brand spanking new PPC, so that's my .02. :D
 
qbynewbie said:
I've found that if I'm staying in the pattern or near the airport, I like to let others know what I'm doing. It makes me uncomfortable to be in the pattern or near the airport and be silent. Letting the other traffic know that I am departing and where I'm heading seems helpful.

I was in the pattern this afternoon. Another pilot departed on 01. As he did so, he announced that he was departing and added "left downwind departure". It didn't take more than a couple of seconds but let me know what his plans were.
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Brian, it was the "level off at 600.....etc" that I took exception to. "Downwind departure," or "Climbing downwind departure," work for me...even "Standard departure," assuming that everyone on the freq knows what that is.

Bob
 
Boy, this one should be a no brainer, just climb out of the traffic pattern and go. Once above, you can turn where ever you want.

Staying low and in the pattern doesn't get the job done safely.
 
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