What to use instead of RunwayFinder

Ted

Ted

The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
Well, I asked this question in the other thread but it quickly got eaten up by discussions surrounding politics of RF/FlightPrep. So, all of that aside, I have to find a replacement for RunwayFinder. Here is what I liked about it and am looking for in a replacement:

- Ability to enter a flight plan and have it give me mileage and a magenta line of death (anything can do this)
- Ability to type in a city, address, etc. and have it bring me to that, which helps me find the closest airports easily (SkyVector does NOT do this, and using Google Maps it is difficult to easily find airports)
- Abililty to swap between VFR/IFR/map/satellite views, a la Google Maps
- International airports in database

Basically, let's say I was given a task to go fly to some town I'd never been to before, and the people knew nothing about local airports. I would go to RF, type in the name of the town, see the nearby airports on the sectional. I'd investigate and figure out which was the best one to pick (closest, fuel price, service, etc.). Then I'd tell the people to meet me there. This happens a lot on dog rescues. Plus, RF had the ability to put in international airports, and see them either with satellite data or a map if they were outside of the US chart area.

Now I need to find a replacement. SkyVector doesn't do half of what I need. What do other people use? I am looking for free options.
 
none that i'm aware of, which is why Runway Finder was so nice. I also really really liked the range rings and the ability to work in multiple sets of units. very handy for glider task planning.
 
Airnav lets you search for a town, and it will give you a textual listing of nearby airports.

I will miss the range circle feature on RF as well.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I am looking for free options.
Click to expand...
I use a combo of things.

For the flight planning itself I use DUATS Golden Eagle, developed by the evil overlords at FlightPrep. It does a fair amount of things that I really like and I have programmed my aircraft particulars into it so I also get my W&B and flight log.

Before I get to the point where I would need GoldenEagle I use Google and/or Flightaware.com to find the airports near where I want to go.
 
Hmmmm... If Jesse or Joe doesn't beat me to it, I'll start working on a "airports near town:__________". We could probably still do a 'magenta line of death' on a generic Google Map without the av chart overlay. Not sure how useful that would be, though.
 
iPhone/itouch/ipad app --> "AirportMap" , does the zip code / town search nicely, and it's free. Links findings to AirNav page for information. Can filter by public / private airports, heliports, etc.

Once you have the airport, any planner would do. AOPA Flight Planner, ForeFlight, Golden Eagle, SkyVector.....
 
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I really don't like iPhones, so I'm sticking with the BlackBerry. I guess to clarify further, I'm looking for something I can use on my laptop (Windows).

Jesse, care to write a "JessePlanner" that looks suspiciously like RunwayFinder?
 
CJones said:
Hmmmm... If Jesse or Joe doesn't beat me to it, I'll start working on a "airports near town:__________". We could probably still do a 'magenta line of death' on a generic Google Map without the av chart overlay. Not sure how useful that would be, though.
Click to expand...

Somebody would have to look at the patent, but as long as you dont draw a line on the map....

Just make a string of little breadcrumbs (if one zooms up enough, they are all little logos that state 'f___ flightprep').
 
hey like Ed says, a line by definition extends to infinity. a segment on the other hand connects two points.
 
At work I have the option of using our company provided weather and flight planning service or my own. When I do it for myself, I use several online resources plus the Lockmart service if required to talk to someone (Which is rare). I just navigate to the different pages for the information that I need.

Duats.com -
Better weather information and good WX charts
Drawback is that it limits you to USA only
Link to FAA's TFR page

Fltplan.com -
Best and easiest IFR flight plan filing resource
The weather is okay. I like the weather information from duats better
FBO alerting function. They will know that you are coming.
Link to FAA's TFR page
Ability to map your flight plan and see the airways along your route.

Airnav.com
An online AFD (not official of course) with lots of useful information. Like all fbo's on the field. That way you can call ahead and negotiate the best prices before picking one. That alone could stop half the bitching of how I got ripped off by that mean FBO.
Local hotel information.
Link to VFR chart (well it used to have this anyways)

http://gc.kls2.com/ -
Great circle map for longer distance flights.

http://www.uswx.com/us/stn/?stn=KDFW&n=200&code=c -
This lets you plug in an airport identifier and see past metars. Its nice to see the wx trends for the past couple of days.

Keep in mind that these are all free services.
 
Hmmm I think Jesseplanner hosted ny Nick could lead to some "enterteinment" when the patent lawyers come knocking :)
 
Patent stories always remind of this C&H strip:

calvin-and-hobbes-strip.png
 
Just frame it as political persecution and host it in iceland.
 
If you are simply trying to discover a collection of nearby airports and can
live without sectionals/TACs ... Google Maps is reasonably useful.
 
I use NavMonster (www.navmonster.com). Type in your departure point and destination to get the basic info, then click on the TripKit button. Pretty much everything you need is there, including approach plates. The only thing missing (and what I used Runway Finder for) is the enroute charts. Oh, and to find the closest towns/airports I use AirNav. Usually, I know where I'm going, but when I don't I type the major airport into AirNav and it will also locate the surrounding ones. Let us know if you like it.

Ted DuPuis said:
Well, I asked this question in the other thread but it quickly got eaten up by discussions surrounding politics of RF/FlightPrep. So, all of that aside, I have to find a replacement for RunwayFinder. Here is what I liked about it and am looking for in a replacement:

- Ability to enter a flight plan and have it give me mileage and a magenta line of death (anything can do this)
- Ability to type in a city, address, etc. and have it bring me to that, which helps me find the closest airports easily (SkyVector does NOT do this, and using Google Maps it is difficult to easily find airports)
- Abililty to swap between VFR/IFR/map/satellite views, a la Google Maps
- International airports in database

Basically, let's say I was given a task to go fly to some town I'd never been to before, and the people knew nothing about local airports. I would go to RF, type in the name of the town, see the nearby airports on the sectional. I'd investigate and figure out which was the best one to pick (closest, fuel price, service, etc.). Then I'd tell the people to meet me there. This happens a lot on dog rescues. Plus, RF had the ability to put in international airports, and see them either with satellite data or a map if they were outside of the US chart area.

Now I need to find a replacement. SkyVector doesn't do half of what I need. What do other people use? I am looking for free options.
Click to expand...
 
Pa28-140 said:
I use NavMonster (www.navmonster.com). Type in your departure point and destination to get the basic info, then click on the TripKit button. Pretty much everything you need is there, including approach plates. The only thing missing (and what I used Runway Finder for) is the enroute charts. Oh, and to find the closest towns/airports I use AirNav. Usually, I know where I'm going, but when I don't I type the major airport into AirNav and it will also locate the surrounding ones. Let us know if you like it.
Click to expand...

Nice! I like it! I assume it isn't under the realm of the FP 'patent' because it doesn't overlay onto nav charts, correct?

I spent time this weekend learning the Google maps API making a "airports near: [address] " site but it looks like you already have that figured out. doh!

Nice, clean site. Advertisements are molded well into the site - they are visible but don't overwhelm the site content.
 
Pa28-140 said:
I use NavMonster (www.navmonster.com). Type in your departure point and destination to get the basic info, then click on the TripKit button. Pretty much everything you need is there, including approach plates. The only thing missing (and what I used Runway Finder for) is the enroute charts. Oh, and to find the closest towns/airports I use AirNav. Usually, I know where I'm going, but when I don't I type the major airport into AirNav and it will also locate the surrounding ones. Let us know if you like it.
Click to expand...

I like! That has most of what I'm looking for. It still doesn't have Mexican airports, but at least it has Canadian.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I like! That has most of what I'm looking for. It still doesn't have Mexican airports, but at least it has Canadian.
Click to expand...

navmonster.com RIP. I also found it very valuable, and did not use it at all for "overlaying a course over a chart". Let's see, in the last week it is runwayfinder, Nacomatic, and now navmonster all because the little guy is under attack and cannot fight back. I also found it very valuable, and did not use it at all for "overlaying a course over a chart"

I am so glad now that I bought Voyager instead of Flightprep's Chartcase.

Jeff
 
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Pa28-140 said:
I use NavMonster (www.navmonster.com).
Click to expand...



jdangel said:
navmonster.com RIP.
Click to expand...
Yep. As of today, navmonster is a deceased website

Due to the litigious environment that we live in today, NavMonster is no longer in operation. I make little to no money off this site, and have neither the time, resources, nor money to defend myself against absurd patents. You just shouldn't be able to patent common sense and good programming skills, but sadly someone has. Best of luck to those that stay in the fight
I need to make one thing perfectly clear: By closing this site, I give up the fight, but by no means do I admit any wrongdoing.
Want to own and operate your own flight planning web site? NavMonster is available for purchase. Inquiries are welcomed
Marc Alexander
marc@navmonster.com
Dec 20, 2010
Click to expand...

 
ScottM said:
Yep. As of today, navmonster is a deceased website
Click to expand...

GOOD GRIEF!

Today was the first time I had seen Navmonster and I REALLY liked it. Now FP has struck again. WHAT A CROCK!!
 
I wonder if Google would be interested in providing what Runway Finders et al did. Perhaps if enough pilots petitioned them and the RF guy provided the initial programming, they'd add it as an option on Google Maps. I'd love to see the patent poacher go up against Google's legal team. :)
 
Great, I used NavMonster for a grand total of 4 hours before it shut down.

This is insane.
 
JohnSBA said:
I wonder if Google would be interested in providing what Runway Finders et al did. Perhaps if enough pilots petitioned them and the RF guy provided the initial programming, they'd add it as an option on Google Maps. I'd love to see the patent poacher go up against Google's legal team. :)
Click to expand...

There are some whispers floating around about hosting a 'runwayfinder-like' site overseas. Hopefully something will come of it.
 
CJones said:
There are some whispers floating around about hosting a 'runwayfinder-like' site overseas. Hopefully something will come of it.
Click to expand...
Great idea!

I've started a new thread (http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39430) in the hope of getting Google to offer some or all of the features right on gMaps. Hope we can find a way to get these sites back or gain the support of Google in providing web-based free solutions for aviation. I find it annoying to pay for online access to public domain charts provided by the FAA.
 
CJones said:
There are some whispers floating around about hosting a 'runwayfinder-like' site overseas. Hopefully something will come of it.
Click to expand...
It matters not where the website is hosted, it matters where those that run it are located. If it is in the US then FP can file for infringement.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Great, I used NavMonster for a grand total of 4 hours before it shut down.

This is insane.
Click to expand...

Clearly it was your fault:wink2:

So does anyone know if these sites were or were not using propriatary information? I mean we can scream all we want that its not fair but if Flight Prep or anyother site spent money and time to develope intellectiual property then don't you think they have a right to protect it?

I don't know that, that is what is infact happening, just seems no one has answered that question.

I've used a variety of products most free including Flight Prep's Golden Eagle which is a great product and I did like Runway finder as well. I did not know Nacomatic is kaput.That was a good site. Not sure how the Runway Finder legal issues applied to Nacomatic all they did was provide gov't issue approach plates which is the same thing AOPA does.
 
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AdamZ said:
So does anyone know if these sites were or were not using propriatary information? I mean we can scream all we want that its not fair but if Flight Prep or anyother site spent money and time to develope intellectiual property then don't you think they have a right to protect it?
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That is a very unpopular opinion to have. The peasants have their pitchforks and are ready to tar and feather those that bring up that point. ;) ;)

I can understand the anger. I also do not think that FP has handled this very well, neither did RF in their particular case. I also know stuff like this is not out of the norm. Perhaps I am inured to the world of IP litigation but I am refusing to get all upset over this. It needs to run its course for a while. In the end most of these IP issues work themselves out in a way that is best for all. Hopefully there will eventually be some constructive assistance in revoking the patent.

AdamZ said:
I don't know that, that is what is infact happening, just seems no one has answered that question.
Click to expand...
I think it is clear that Skyvector has paid the licensing fee and RunwayFinder decided to shut down. It should be noted that the shutdown in no way negates the lawsuit that FP had already filed. At most it would prevent additional damages being assessed should the suit proceed and find for the plaintiff. I think that is what RF wished to avoid. It is not at all clear from the NavMonster suit if the decision to shut down is a result of failed negotiations with FP, a lawsuit, or just a proactive decision in the hope to avoid litigious entanglements.

AdamZ said:
I've used a variety of products most free including Flight Prep's Golden Eagle which is a great product and I did like Runway finder as well. I did not know Nacomatic is kaput.That was a good site. Not sure how the Runway Finder legal issues applied to Nacomatic all they did was provide gov't issue approach plates which is the same thing AOPA does.
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The NACOmatic announcement puzzles me too. Distribution of government published documents has nothing to do with the FP IP and it is exceedingly clear that there are no copyright issues either.
 
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I think NACOMatic's shutdown is related by coincidence in time only.
 
AdamZ said:
So does anyone know if these sites were or were not using propriatary information? I mean we can scream all we want that its not fair but if Flight Prep or anyother site spent money and time to develope intellectiual property then don't you think they have a right to protect it?

I don't know that, that is what is infact happening, just seems no one has answered that question.
Click to expand...

If RunwayFinder was a brand new site that FlightPrep then found out about and shut down, I think it would be one thing. However the fact that I've been using it for the past 3 years very happily to me is more than enough time to take any sort of legal action.

The other thing to take into account (and to me the bigger one) is whether or not it's a good political move. In this case, it's a very bad one. A number of potential customers will be alienated on principle, regardless of who is in the legal right. They look like they have some good products that I would have considered buying, but now will not buy at all.
 
SCCutler said:
I think NACOMatic's shutdown is related by coincidence in time only.
Click to expand...
Nacomatic lists one of the reason the FP patent issue.


NACOmatic: RIP

DVD editions of the NACOmatic ebooks will remain available. Contact me for details.

At the moment, PDFplates is still on-line.

I have decided to shutdown NACOmatic due to:

  • Donations - as content & features increased, traffic increased ... and donations declined significantly.

Click to expand...
 
AdamZ said:
Clearly it was your fault:wink2:

So does anyone know if these sites were or were not using propriatary information? I mean we can scream all we want that its not fair but if Flight Prep or anyother site spent money and time to develope intellectiual property then don't you think they have a right to protect it?

I don't know that, that is what is infact happening, just seems no one has answered that question.

I've used a variety of products most free including Flight Prep's Golden Eagle which is a great product and I did like Runway finder as well. I did not know Nacomatic is kaput.That was a good site. Not sure how the Runway Finder legal issues applied to Nacomatic all they did was provide gov't issue approach plates which is the same thing AOPA does.
Click to expand...

My 'beef' is not necessarily that certain websites are being shut down. That's just the legal system being exercised to its limits.

The issue I have is that the patent was ever applied for and granted in the first place. Based on my (uneducated) reading of the patent, they didn't patent anything that I view as 'proprietary'. Honestly, I have never seen or used FlightPrep's software, and I was able to put together a site over the weekend using existing technologies (not spawned from anything that FlightPrep has made) that would fall under their umbrella of patent infringement. So how is it possible for me to create a 'product' that infringes on their patent when 1.) I have never seen their product to use as a spawn for an idea and 2.) I can create the 'product' using existing technologies that FlightPrep has had NOTHING to do with creating?

Now, it appears that FP is simply 'picking on' the little guys to get a precedent set so they can take on the big guys in court and either get the big guys to use their license (free money for flight prep) or get bought out by the big guys (again, free money and bail-out for a failure to innovate).

THAT is my beef. They can 'cause' the shutdown of all the sites they want to, but the fact that I can't take my own personal knowledge and create a replacement without having their blessing just chaps my ass.
 
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