What to get??

3 in the green

3 in the green

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c170b
I'm aircraft shopping and admittedly stumped, despite years of thinking and knowing pretty much what I would get...

Here's the mission.

Most trips are within 100-300nm...think socal to vegas/sba/san diego/wine country/etc. Payload will mostly myself @ 190 lbs, wife and 2 small kids some of the time (ie. no need for 500+ payload). IFR capable (not fiki) a must, preferrably equipped with 430W / equivalent. Autopilot would be great, even a simple one, but not a requirement. At least once-twice a year, a long trip up the west coast (LA-Seattle) will be made, at least 800-1000 nm. DA shouldn't be an issue much of the time with the destinations I have, save for the occasional big bear run, etc when appropriate - no need for a turbo as I don't see myself going east over the rocks very often if at all.

Budget is $50k-ish, with a preference for simpler maintenance/costs and efficiency. I will be tying down outside, no budget for expensive hangars down here in socal.

My initial thought is C172 w/ 180hp STC...but then my mind starts drifting off to M20 (I don't find them uncomfortable)....Tiger....Cherokee 180?

Thoughts?

Begin! :D
 
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I'd go Cherokee 180, and stretch for a taperwing Archer II if you can find a decent one in your budget.

I've flown about 60 different models of GA aircraft, and the 172 is among my least favorite. There's just something about Cessna's ergonomics that I find uncomfortable. I like a low, legs-in-front seating position rather than Cessna's upright, kitchen-chair position, and then it all flows from there.
 
What's the difference between a cherokee 180 and an archer? (besides the hershey wing / tapered wing)
 
I have been flying a Cessna 182 since 1978 - and wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to anyone. OTOH, what with the price of fuel these days I'd look for something that uses less of it. With your mission I'd take a good look at 180 HP Cardinals. As for useful load - your kids will grow up so fast it will scare you!

Dave
 
3 in the green said:
What's the difference between a cherokee 180 and an archer? (besides the hershey wing / tapered wing)
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The bloodline is a little more complicated than just "Cherokee 180" vs. "Archer":

1962-64 PA-28-180 Cherokee B 180: Short body (marginal rear seat room), short (30' span) "Hershey bar" wings, old-style instrument panel with plunger engine controls, blunt metal cowl (same as Cherokee 140), two windows per side.

1964-67 PA-28-180 Cherokee C 180: Short body, short wings; more streamlined fiberglass cowl.

1968-69 PA-28-180 Cherokee D: Third side windows added, redesigned instrument panel with lever-type throttle quadrant.

1970 PA-28-180 Cherokee 180E through 1972 Cherokee 180G: Mainly cosmetic changes.

1973 PA-28-180 Cherokee Challenger: Big change year. Fuselage lengthened by about eight inches, mainly benefitting rear seat legroom; longer (32' span) "Hershey bar" wings, longer stabilator.

1974-75 PA-28-180 Cherokee Archer: Continues with 32'-span Hershey-bar wings, minor cosmetic changes, windows restyled, name change.

1976-90 PA-28-181 Cherokee Archer II: Tapered wings (35' span). "Cherokee" name dropped after 1977.

In Piper's model number protocol, the last number is the rated horsepower of (each) engine. But beginning with the Warrior in 1974, a '1' added to the horsepower denotes tapered wings.
 
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I don't know where you are in So Cal, but have you considered a flying club?

You could have access to a lot more expensive aircraft on an as needed basis. You don't have to worry about out growing an aircraft, or finding it too slow, or not well enough equipped, etc. Not to mention the hassles and expense of sole ownership.

Just my thoughts given your budget.
 
Surprisingly enough, there's none close to me (AJO/F70) that I'd consider, although supposedly one is starting soon with a Deb and a Seneca, which would be great.
 
I have a lot of respect for Ken, but I disagree with the more reclining seating position being more comfortable, but then I like pickup trucks. I guess that is why there are so many different airplanes :).
 
but you have to be a real pilot. :)
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Nice airplane, but it has the Cessna seating some don't like. I would like to have one, but don't know if I am a real pilot!
 
I think your assessment of a 172 with a 180ho STC is spot on. I've got 630 pounds of payload w/ full gas, and frequently do 300nm trips with ease.
 
DavidWhite said:
I think your assessment of a 172 with a 180ho STC is spot on. I've got 630 pounds of payload w/ full gas, and frequently do 300nm trips with ease.
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What type of cruise numbers (TAS / GPH) do you typically see? And what's your initial thought on the 172 180 link above?
 
If your near corona or french valley. Look at riverside. They have have a flying club with three planes. The planes are owned by the club. That makes a big difference in clubs.
They have a 172, 182 and a piper 235.

The rates are good also---- $72 for the 172 and $92 for the 182 and the piper. No daily min or other costs.

Look up there website.

Gary
 
Any of the simple 180HP 4-seaters (180HP STC C-172, C-177, Piper 180 Cherokee/Archer, Beech Sundowner, or Grumman Tiger) should do fine for your mission and be easily purchasable within your budget. Personally, I'm a Grumman guy, and own a Tiger, and have strong feelings for them, but you should fly them all with your wife along, and buy the one she likes best. ;)
 
A well equipped Cardinal RG would fit the mission and budget; or, if you're comfortable in them, a Mooney.
 
How long do you expect to hold on to this aircraft?

You said two kids......kids grow.....something to think about. A 180 HP may meet your needs right now....but for how long? Then you need to be thinking about resale value.
 
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MBDiagMan said:
9,000 hours total time? Whew!
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Hard for a single pilot to put that much time on a plane. My guess is a large part of its former life was that of a trainer. Not a bad thing. You know it's been flown and generally kept in good working order. 900 100-hour inspections plus annuals.
 
3 in the green said:
The Cessna ergonomics don't bother me, but I can see what you're saying.

I like this listing...but I'm concerned with the fact that the plane appears to have only flown less than 120 hours since new OH in 2003. Is this a legitimate concern?

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Single+Engine+Piston/1979/Cessna/172_180+Conversion/1353784.html
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This airplane has the potential to turn from a $50K airplane into $100K airplane that will still be worth $50K. The engine was replaced in 2003 it has 114 SNEW. So ~14 hours per year for a decade!!! Also, I suspect most of those 114 hours were put on just after the engine was installed and now it has been sitting unused for a long time.

Those avionics... well OK. I would think you would want an A/P for long trips and IFR. Plus a GPS, especially in So Cal. Those two items will cost $50K alone.

$50K/$135 a hour to rent a brand new 172. No fuel, no maintenance, no hangar , no subscriptions, no insurance, no depreciation, NO SURPRISES.

This one just doesn't make any sense to me.
 
3 in the green said:
I'm aircraft shopping and admittedly stumped, despite years of thinking and knowing pretty much what I would get...

Here's the mission.

Most trips are within 100-300nm...think socal to vegas/sba/san diego/wine country/etc. Payload will mostly myself @ 190 lbs, wife and 2 small kids some of the time (ie. no need for 500+ payload). IFR capable (not fiki) a must, preferrably equipped with 430W / equivalent. Autopilot would be great, even a simple one, but not a requirement. At least once-twice a year, a long trip up the west coast (LA-Seattle) will be made, at least 800-1000 nm. DA shouldn't be an issue much of the time with the destinations I have, save for the occasional big bear run, etc when appropriate - no need for a turbo as I don't see myself going east over the rocks very often if at all.

Budget is $50k-ish, with a preference for simpler maintenance/costs and efficiency. I will be tying down outside, no budget for expensive hangars down here in socal.

My initial thought is C172 w/ 180hp STC...but then my mind starts drifting off to M20 (I don't find them uncomfortable)....Tiger....Cherokee 180?

Thoughts?

Begin! :D
Click to expand...

Sounds like you'd like my friend's cherry PA-28-235 he's selling for ~ $60K. Useful load on those is incredible. 182-type performance.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm a CFI, not a CMI.*

*Certified Marriage Instructor
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That's funny but not the point.

Finding rentals is not as easy as it once was, chasing seller's aircraft and begging rides could cost a bunch in traveling.

So telling a buyer to go ride in them all, may be sound advice, but how would you really get it done?
 
Tom-D said:
That's funny but not the point.
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Sorry -- missed the point due to the highlighting I put in the original.

Finding rentals is not as easy as it once was, chasing seller's aircraft and begging rides could cost a bunch in traveling.
Click to expand...
That's true, but it's still cheaper than having your wife diagree ex post facto with your choice.

So telling a buyer to go ride in them all, may be sound advice, but how would you really get it done?
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Cessna 172's and Piper Warrior/Archers are relatively widely available for rent. For the Grummans, there are AYA regional fly-ins on a fairly regular basis, and you should have little trouble bagging a ride at one -- see the AYA Regional Event Calendar at http://www.aya.org. Cardinals are probably harder to find, but do have a pretty active owner's group where you can probably find someone not far who'll be happy to help (owners group members are usually fanatical proselytizers). For the Beeches, I'm not the guy to ask.
 
Ron Levy said:
That's true, but it's still cheaper than having your wife diagree ex post facto with your choice.
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When I found any aircraft that fit the mission and all other things were right, I'd certainly get her to ride before we bought.

But running around trying to bum rides, I don't think so.

But I'm not above buying a local guy lunch, to ride in their aircraft.
 
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