what is disqualifying for light sport?

[SkyHog]

I hear many times that if one knows they can't get a medical, they shouldn't bother and instead should go Light Sport. I also know that Light sport has some requirements. If someone knows they can't get a medical, isn't that supposed to be a self ground for LSA too?

 

[LDJones]

I hear many times that if one knows they can't get a medical, they shouldn't bother and instead should go Light Sport. I also know that Light sport has some requirements. If someone knows they can't get a medical, isn't that supposed to be a self ground for LSA too?

Yes. Since you're self-certifying your healthy enough to fly, a known disqualifying condition disqualifies you from LS. I think many are taking a different approach, however, and that will likely work until there is a major accident. Then who knows what we'll get.

 

[bflynn]

Anything that would be disqualifying for a 3rd class is disqualifying for LSA. It's your responsibility to be informed, to consult experts if you're unsure and then to disqualify yourself when you know.

 

[ebykowsky]

So if the FAA finds out about one of these conditions, but not on a medical, are they legally allowed to revoke the LSA cert? For instance, the armless girl who flies LSA's: It's pretty obvious she couldn't pass a medical (or maybe there's no arms requirement)--if the agent sees her at the ramp, can they say, "give me your cert, I don't think you're fit to fly?"

 

[poadeleted20]

The two replies above are somewhat misleading. As long as you've never applied for an FAA medical certificate, or if you did, the last one was not denied/deferred without approval, then you are still in the game for Sport Pilot if you "consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties."
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/sportpilots/response5/
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/sportpilots/response4/
That said, it's not all that likely you can get your physician to agree with that if you have one of the big disqualifying conditions for all medical certificates:

• Diabetes requiring medication
• Heart attack
• Angina pectoris
• Coronary artery disease
• Heart valve replacement
• Psychosis
• Personality disorder (overt acts)
• Bipolar disorder
• Epilepsy
• Unexplained disturbance of consciousness
• Unexplained transient loss of CNS function
• Substance dependence, abuse, or misuse in last two years

...so you may be able to fly Sport Pilot with such conditions -- or you may not, depending on how you and your doctor feel about your ability to safely perform sport piloting duties. For example, diabetes which is well-controlled with medication may be acceptable. OTOH, epilepsy with recent events almost certainly won't. At the end of the day, it's all about making a wise, informed decision in consultation with your physician.

 

[ClimbnSink]

If you haven't been denied your last medical you are good to go. Everything else is fudds wishing the rules were worse then they are and imaginary worst case legal fairytales.

 

[poadeleted20]

So if the FAA finds out about one of these conditions, but not on a medical, are they legally allowed to revoke the LSA cert?

That depends. If they think you've violated 61.53 by flying as a Sport Pilot when you "[knew or had] reason to know of any medical condition that would make [you] unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner," then they could take enforcement action against your Sport Pilot certificate, including suspension or revocation.

For instance, the armless girl who flies LSA's: It's pretty obvious she couldn't pass a medical (or maybe there's no arms requirement)--if the agent sees her at the ramp, can they say, "give me your cert, I don't think you're fit to fly?"

First, FAA Inspectors are not authorized to just take your pilot certificate in such a case. They have to go through a legal process of investigation and review before a suspension or revocation is ordered.

In the case you mentioned, she had no arms when she started flying, and almost certainly passed a Special Medical Flight Test in order to have received her Sport Pilot certificate. That would be documented in the papers she has, including a limitation on her pilot certificate regarding special controls for the aircraft she's flying. Of course, if she does not have the appropriate authorization, or the airplane is not equipped as required, then the Inspector will initiate an EIR and start the ball rolling towards a violation and enforcement action against her. So, if she got her Sport Pilot certificate while still physically complete, and then lost her arms but never got a SMFT after that, the FAA would probably have a pretty open-and-shut case that she was violating 61.53. OTOH, if she was properly authorized, the Inspector will check her papers, make sure the plane she's flying is appropriately equipped per the limitation on her pilot certificate, and then thank her for her cooperation and send her on her way.

 

[poadeleted20]

If you haven't been denied your last medical you are good to go. Everything else is fudds wishing the rules were worse then they are and imaginary worst case legal fairytales.

That simply is not true, and the FAA has said so specifically in the guidance I linked above. If you have anything from the Chief Counsel or Flight Standards to support your position and deny the published guidance from the Federal Air Surgeon, please provide it. Otherwise, please don't disseminate this false information, because if the FAA catches an uncontrolled epileptic or schizophrenic who never applied for a medical certificate flying as a Sport Pilot, they are going to nail that person on a 61.53 violation, and it will stick.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

In the case you mentioned, she had no arms when she started flying, and almost certainly passed a Special Medical Flight Test in order to have received her Sport Pilot certificate. That would be documented in the papers she has, including a limitation on her pilot certificate regarding special controls for the aircraft she's flying.

She doesn't fly with special controls, IIRC... She's very, very flexible and holds the yoke with her foot.

That said, she did train in an Ercoupe 'cuz you can't do it all at once otherwise.

 

[poadeleted20]

She doesn't fly with special controls, IIRC... She's very, very flexible and holds the yoke with her foot.

That said, she did train in an Ercoupe 'cuz you can't do it all at once otherwise.

I'm guessing, then, that she has a limitation which says she can only fly that model of Ercoupe. But either way, I'm pretty sure she took a SMFT to get her Sport Pilot ticket, and if she had lost her arms after getting her ticket, the FAA would want a SMFT before she flew again as PIC.

 

[jnmeade]

Some state laws on drivers license eligibility include factors that are not medical. While most of the disqualifying conditions for a drivers license (like criminal activity) would likely also make you flunk your medical, that doesn't mean there are no cases where you could pass a the third class medical and not be given a drivers license (assuming you were willing to meet requirements like taking a photo, residency, etc.).

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I hear many times that if one knows they can't get a medical, they shouldn't bother and instead should go Light Sport. I also know that Light sport has some requirements. If someone knows they can't get a medical, isn't that supposed to be a self ground for LSA too?

No.

There are a lot of reasons to not get a medical. Some of them are flat out no, some of them mean that you would need to go through a lot of time and money to get a special issue, but you likely could get it in the end. So, first of all, what do you mean by "can't get"?

Second, nowhere (and I mean nowhere) will you find the FAA saying that you have to meet the standards for a third class medical to fly an LSA. At one time, they even had that actual question on their LSA FAQ - "What if I have a disqualifying condition" - the answer talked about the requirements to be safe and the various regulations, but the bottom line was that "you should consult with your physician" to determine if you are safe. It didn't say N.F.W. like some seem to wish they said. But that question / answer has disappeared and I never made a copy of it.

Third, since the standard is "safe" does that correlate to the standards for a medical? If it did, then the standards for the medical could never change - could they. A couple years ago antidepressants were a flat denial. Now there are exceptions. Does that mean that it was unsafe a couple years ago and now isn't?

While there does seem to be at least some correlation between having a medical and being fit to fly, but I've seen exceptions on both sides.

 

[poadeleted20]

At one time, they even had that actual question on their LSA FAQ - "What if I have a disqualifying condition" - the answer talked about the requirements to be safe and the various regulations, but the bottom line was that "you should consult with your physician" to determine if you are safe. It didn't say N.F.W. like some seem to wish they said. But that question / answer has disappeared and I never made a copy of it.

Try the links in post #5 above to find the Federal Air Surgeon's guidance on the FAS page rather than the LSA page.

 

[bbchien]

I hear many times that if one knows they can't get a medical, they shouldn't bother and instead should go Light Sport. I also know that Light sport has some requirements. If someone knows they can't get a medical, isn't that supposed to be a self ground for LSA too?

61.53 now appplies to sport pilots, Nick. What is different is the STANDARD. 1st-2nd-3rd are all prescribed by FAA. LSA is determined by your local doctor. See the links in RBL's post #5.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Try the links in post #5 above to find the Federal Air Surgeon's guidance on the FAS page rather than the LSA page.

Some of the same stuff that has always been there.

"You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties"

"You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties. You may exercise sport pilot privileges provided you are in good health, your medical condition is under control, you adhere to your physician’s recommended treatment, and you feel satisfied that you are able to conduct safe flight operations. "

Given that a private physican is not likely to know all the ins and outs of an FAA third class medical certificate, the Federal Air Surgeon response does not seem to support the claim that if you can't get a third class medical you are automaticly disqualified from flying under the sport pilot rules.

 

[bbchien]

Given that a private physican is not likely to know all the ins and outs of an FAA third class medical certificate, the Federal Air Surgeon response does not seem to support the claim that if you can't get a third class medical you are automaticly disqualified from flying under the sport pilot rules.

Geoff, did RBL say that? I'm having trouble finding that....point it out for me....if he did, it's not correct.

 

[SkyHog]

Geoff, did RBL say that? I'm having trouble finding that....point it out for me....if he did, it's not correct.

I think he is strictly interpreting my OP, where I said "If someone knows they can't get a medical, isn't that supposed to be a self ground for LSA too?" I didn't intend for it to be a strict interpretation, but rather a question of "Is there truly a gap between the FAA Medical and Sport Pilot."

It appears the answer is yes, which just made my heart flutter in a good way.

 

[poadeleted20]

Some of the same stuff that has always been there.

"You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties"

"You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties. You may exercise sport pilot privileges provided you are in good health, your medical condition is under control, you adhere to your physician’s recommended treatment, and you feel satisfied that you are able to conduct safe flight operations. "

Given that a private physican is not likely to know all the ins and outs of an FAA third class medical certificate, the Federal Air Surgeon response does not seem to support the claim that if you can't get a third class medical you are automaticly disqualified from flying under the sport pilot rules.

I agree with Geoff completely, and I certainly never made that claim other than to say if you were denied/deferred on your last medical application, the regs say you cannot fly on your DL until you get a medical certificate issuance. If you were not (i.e., either never applied or were issued on last application), then it's up to you and your physician as described by Geoff, subject to a sanity check if it ever comes to the FAA' attention. That said, just because your doctor is stupid enough to think schizophrenia isn't a factor in safe flying, don't think the FAA will buy your argument after you wreck while having a psychotic break.

 

[poadeleted20]

I think he is strictly interpreting my OP, where I said "If someone knows they can't get a medical, isn't that supposed to be a self ground for LSA too?"

The answer to that original question (which I did not answer directly) is "Perhaps yes, perhaps no. If you think you would not pass an FAA medical exam, you should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties."

I didn't intend for it to be a strict interpretation, but rather a question of "Is there truly a gap between the FAA Medical and Sport Pilot."

At the end of the day, not really -- in each case, you must be fit enough to fly safely in the operations contemplated. The big difference is that for Sport Pilot, you do not have to obtain the FAA's official seal of approval.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Geoff, did RBL say that?

No.

Others in this thread, on the other hand...

"a known disqualifying condition disqualifies you from LS"

"Anything that would be disqualifying for a 3rd class is disqualifying for LSA."

Mr. Levy had suppllied the links that I quoted. I guess I wasn't being clear. Is that a disqualifying condition?

 

[Mason]

I think there are a good number of pilots, perhaps older and experienced, who could pass a Third Class but only with great expense and Special Issuance, who have chosen to fly Light Sport.

I could be wrong, but IIRC the cargo pilot who was attacked with a hammer by a suicidal fellow employee and suffered grave injuries is now flying sport.

I don't believe the intention of the Driver's License Medical is to assure the pilot so flying meets all the standards of a class 3, only that the pilot can safely operate the aircraft.