What If Something Happens To You?

DutchessFlier

DutchessFlier

Line Up and Wait
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DutchessFlier
Flew the other day with a friend's teenage son, a great kid, who was off from school for the holiday break. Did the usual preflight process with him tagging along, and explained everything to him as we went through the checklist. I also did my pre-takeoff 'instrument' briefing with him for my own practice although the flight was VFR. Leave it up to the kids to ask this question...

Bruce, what do I do in the plane if something happens to you and you can't fly it any more?

Ya know, I started to answer him, tried to tell him about using the radio, keeping the plane level, etc., but I knew that I really did not have a good answer for him. No other passenger had ever asked me this question.

So, I open the question to you all who have much more experience than I at this point in time...how would you handle that question?
 
For now tell him, 'When we are in the air I will show you how to use the yoke and rudders so if anything happens you can steer the plane back onto a runway'...

For later tell his dad, 'Get this kid some flying lessons.'

denny-o
 
As Denny said, let him/her do some flying. Each front seat pax I take up gets a chance to fly if they so desire. This serves two purposes: allows them to do something they have never done before and gives them some small level of confidence should I check out.
 
kevin47881 said:
As Denny said, let him/her do some flying. Each front seat pax I take up gets a chance to fly if they so desire. This serves two purposes: allows them to do something they have never done before and gives them some small level of confidence should I check out.
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If I look like I might check out during an intro flight, I probably shouldn't be flying.

Just sayin....:redface:
 
steingar said:
I think I answered that one "you get to meet your dear and fluffy lord".
Click to expand...


mmmm do I sense the attitude of resignation:rolleyes:

Seriously this is a good post Bruce. On my first real long XC with my wife and daughter I tried to show my wife how to use the radio and the basic four climb, descend, turn and level I also told here a bit about the throttle. Her words to me were " don't die in the plane cause I'm not interested in this stuff.

If in fact you have someone who is interested I think the basic four, radio work and use of the throttle have a reasonable chance of getting them on the ground. Other than that the pinch hitter course is a good gift for someone like that.
 
DutchessFlier said:
(snip)
So, I open the question to you all who have much more experience than I at this point in time...how would you handle that question?
Click to expand...
I think every non-pilot front seat passenger is asking this question whether they state it or not.:eek: As mentioned, I will usually let the passenger see how the yoke and rudder work once the aircraft is on-course. But, the most important thing is to show them how to use the radio push-to-talk button. It isn't intuitive.

Anyway, :yesnod: keep it light-hearted and assure him that you have no more intention of kicking off while he is aboard than an airline captain intends to let you 'save' the flight after he eats the fish.

I second the suggestion to ask Dad to get him some flying lessons.
 
Stuff does happen. On my first real cross-country after getting my PPL at age 18(?) or so, my appendix went and although I made it down safely, I couldn't walk into the hospital on my own power by the time we got there!
 
dmccormack said:
True... but I wonder how many pilots stricken mid-air were hiding a condition?
Click to expand...

They are finding that the heart attacks and strokes are not being caused by blood vessels that have been plugged by a lifetime of bad living and eating and bad genes.. (they used to think that the vessels gradually closed up until something the size of a pinhead came along and plugged them, causing the stroke or heart attack)... that scenario would involve there being a slow, gradual decline or slow gradual emergence of increasingly persistent symptoms before the "big one"...

Truth is.. they are finding out that most strokes and heart attacks are being caused by smaller plaques "bursting" inside a blood vessel and causing them to clot shut. The smaller plaques aren't flow limiting, or not to the point that they cause symptoms in the typical person, so theres nothing to hide.. Just one day "BAM!".

So I am willing to venture that the majority of pilot incapacitations aren't hiding that much..

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20030917X01553&key=1
however, is an example of someone who DID have something to hide..
 
Doggtyred said:
They are finding that the heart attacks and strokes are not being caused by blood vessels that have been plugged by a lifetime of bad living and eating and bad genes.. (they used to think that the vessels gradually closed up until something the size of a pinhead came along and plugged them, causing the stroke or heart attack)... that scenario would involve there being a slow, gradual decline or slow gradual emergence of increasingly persistent symptoms before the "big one"...

Truth is.. they are finding out that most strokes and heart attacks are being caused by smaller plaques "bursting" inside a blood vessel and causing them to clot shut. The smaller plaques aren't flow limiting, or not to the point that they cause symptoms in the typical person, so theres nothing to hide.. Just one day "BAM!".

So I am willing to venture that the majority of pilot incapacitations aren't hiding that much..
Click to expand...

That's a very interesting (and frightening) bit of data!
 
DutchessFlier said:
So, I open the question to you all who have much more experience than I at this point in time...how would you handle that question?
Click to expand...

Drive it around by playing with the controls until you see a big runway, close the throttle, fly down, and hit it. Yer gonna wreck the airplane, but you probably will walk away.
 
The Cirrus and other BRS equipped planes actually have a reasonable answer to that question.

I also say the odds of us getting back home are about the same, maybe a bit better than if we were to drive.

Joe
 
I would answer the question by an inquisative passenger by telling them in order to fly I have to have a medical examination every two years. I have been cleared to fly so there are no worries. Lets go fly!
 
Left this morning to do a half day of work...wondering what kind of responses to this post would show up.
My my, we are a wonderful, but strange bunch of people!!!! Truth is, from what I see, Peggy has it right that every passenger may not ask the question, but they are thinking about it, and we really don't have a set, or should I say, policy or procedurally based answer to this issue.
I don't see a checklist item for 'When the PIC becomes incapacitated, as a non-flying front seat passenger, do the following....'
We have the same reality check ourselves when we fly singles: loss of engine on T-O is a messy thing to deal with and the reality is difficult at best, and we accept that situation as pilots.
If I am alone in the plane and I get incapacitated, I know my fate. IF we have another person in the plane with us, even though that person is a non-pilot, shouldn't we be able to somehow take advantage of the much improved odds for a successful outcome in the same situation simply because someone else is in the plane and could try to control the aircraft in flight?
How then do we (or even, should we) prep that person for such an eventuality?

Again, if the person asks,

'what do I do in the plane if something happens to you and you can't fly it any more?'

what does one say?
 
DutchessFlier said:
...
Again, if the person asks,

'what do I do in the plane if something happens to you and you can't fly it any more?'

what does one say?
Click to expand...

"What would you do if we were driving down the freeway and something happened to me where I was unable to drive the car? What would you do then?"

"Reach over, grab the wheel, steer to the side of the road, I guess?"

"How about this? You don't even have to reach over! You have controls right in front of you. By the way, when is the last time you've ever had to reach over to grab the wheel of a car when the driver's become incapacitated? Yeah, like - never?"

Sorry, snarkyness aside - legitimate question and some good answers posted already. Sooth their concerns and have fun!
 
I have a passenger information sheet somewhere on my computer that I found somewhere on the net giving a basic breakdown of how everything works and how to use what. I usually have them read it and them give them the chance to get a feel for the plane when we're up.
 
Geico266 said:
I would answer the question by an inquisative passenger by telling them in order to fly I have to have a medical examination every two years. I have been cleared to fly so there are no worries. Lets go fly!
Click to expand...

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

In other words, you would lie...

Unlike my dad who was found lying on the floor (unconscious) of the men's room at an FBO the same day he passed his physical.
 
DutchessFlier said:
Again, if the person asks,

'what do I do in the plane if something happens to you and you can't fly it any more?'

what does one say?
Click to expand...


I'm guessing you already have an idea in mind, but FWIW, here's a serious response:

"That's very unlikley -- I'm healthy, have had a physical recently, and won't fly when I'm not feeling well. But if I get zapped by aliens, all you need to do is keep it straight and level -- like this ---"

Demonstrate, Practice, Supervise

"Then tell someone on the radio here " (show PTT) "That I was zapped and you're all alone"

"He'll ask you where you are, or might ask you to push this button here..."

"Go in the direction he tells you until you're ready to land, gradually pull this back..." (throttle)

"The airplane will descend..."

Demonstrate, Practice, Supervise

"You can use gentle banks to turn where you want to go..."

Demonstrate, Practice, Supervise

"Eventually you'll be heading towards a nice big runway. Keep it lined up like this...."

Demonstrate, Practice, Supervise

"Then keep descending..."

Demonstrate, Practice, Supervise

"...Until the airplane is rolling on the ground. Pull the throttle all the way back and switch off the key, over here"
 
I'm reminded of my mother's opinion of my father's driving ability:

Close your eyes, turn your head, wait for the crash...

Of course she taught me to drive, and could never stop complaining that I drove like my father...
 
Geico266 said:
I would answer the question by an inquisative passenger by telling them in order to fly I have to have a medical examination every two years. I have been cleared to fly so there are no worries. Lets go fly!
Click to expand...

This really is the best answer, if you want to put it into perspective you can say add, "that in the remote chance something did happen he result would probably be the same as if your driver passed out at 70MPH on the freeway."

Brian
 
I have never for a moment been uncontrollably incapacitated in the embarrassingly numerous number of decades I've been a sentient being. If I am to all of a sudden, after all this time of (continuing good health) go off-line, perhaps the dear and fluffy Lord has it in for my passenger.
 
My wife went through the ground portion of the Pinch Hitter course, and they gave her this checklist, which she has with her when we fly--just in case.

http://www.checkmateaviation.com/Products/E_S_P_/e_s_p_.html

It's very good, but a customized version for YOUR plane (i.e., not all radios are the same, or you might have glass cockpit G1000/Avidyne/Evolution setup) would be a nice start.

Here's a sample of what Side 1 looks like, for reference:

ESPSide1.gif


Side 2 covers how to land the plane, including how to identify an airport from the air, or pick a road/race track/open field, descend, level off, determine the wind direction, lower the landing gear, when and how to use flaps (using the white arc as a guide), how to line up and pick an aiming point on the runway, fly to that point while controlling airspeed (keep it in the middle of the white arc), touchdown, stop on the runway (using the lower half of the foot pedals to steer the plane like a sled), applying brakes using both feet pushed at the TOP of the pedals, and shut down the engine (pulling the red mixture control and turning off the red master switch).
 
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I like that chart, Troy. They should have that available in customized versions!

I was going to say that the PTT switch could easily be confused with the autopilot disconnect switch, but then realized that the latter is, in my experience, only on the pilot's side. Are there many (any) with an AP disconnect on the passenger's side?
 
Smart kid. He is actually thinking ahead and not about what is on TV or for dinner.

A smart pilot...would answer his question by showing him the checklist and having him 'assist' with the flight. This would naturally lead to more questions and answers.

If you can find the checklist... you can steal any airplane and fly away. Landings...it's a starting point.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

In other words, you would lie...

Unlike my dad who was found lying on the floor (unconscious) of the men's room at an FBO the same day he passed his physical.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your dad, hope he recovered.

I never said I wasn't gonna lie! :rofl::rofl::rofl: I just want to go fly! Enough of the questions! Lets Fly! :rofl::rofl::rofl:


This brings up an interesting point. I used to give rides to everyone, family, friends, people at the airport, etc. Then I wanted to give an hour charity ride as a prize for a breast cancer fund raising event. After talking with the FSDO about it the idea was killed due to my plane being an experimental RV-10. The manager of the FSDO went on to inform me the public expects and depands planes to be built to a certain standard and experimentals fall outside of the standards set forth by the FAA. Any passenger flying in an experimental really needs to have signed a waiver and fully understand what the term "EXPERIMENTAL" means in accordance with the terms the FAA / NTSB uses. Once they told me I should be using waivers, it was easier for me not to give rides anymore. :dunno:
 
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Push this button and this button, the plane will fly itself. Then push this button and tell whoever answers that you need a little help.

DutchessFlier said:
Left this morning to do a half day of work...wondering what kind of responses to this post would show up.
My my, we are a wonderful, but strange bunch of people!!!! Truth is, from what I see, Peggy has it right that every passenger may not ask the question, but they are thinking about it, and we really don't have a set, or should I say, policy or procedurally based answer to this issue.
I don't see a checklist item for 'When the PIC becomes incapacitated, as a non-flying front seat passenger, do the following....'
We have the same reality check ourselves when we fly singles: loss of engine on T-O is a messy thing to deal with and the reality is difficult at best, and we accept that situation as pilots.
If I am alone in the plane and I get incapacitated, I know my fate. IF we have another person in the plane with us, even though that person is a non-pilot, shouldn't we be able to somehow take advantage of the much improved odds for a successful outcome in the same situation simply because someone else is in the plane and could try to control the aircraft in flight?
How then do we (or even, should we) prep that person for such an eventuality?

Again, if the person asks,

'what do I do in the plane if something happens to you and you can't fly it any more?'

what does one say?
Click to expand...
 
Geico266 said:
Sorry to hear about your dad, hope he recovered.
Click to expand...

Well, they found the cancer. He did OK for several years after that - a long process, but it got him in the end.

Just pointing out that, as far as I can tell, having a "medical" don't mean S.... :nonod:

I never said I wasn't gonna lie! :rofl::rofl::rofl: I just want to go fly! Enough of the questions! Lets Fly! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
Click to expand...

Yea, tell them what they want to hear. I suppose it works, eh? :D

This brings up an interesting point. I used to give rides to everyone, family, friends, people at the airport, etc. Then I wanted to give an hour charity ride as a prize for a breast cancer fund raising event. After talking with the FSDO about it the idea was killed due to my plane being an experimental RV-10. The manager of the FSDO went on to inform me the public expects and depands planes to be built to a certain standard and experimentals fall outside of the standards set forth by the FAA. Any passenger flying in an experimental really needs to have signed a waiver and fully understand what the term "EXPERIMENTAL" means in accordance with the terms the FAA / NTSB uses. Once they told me I should be using waivers, it was easier for me not to give rides anymore. :dunno:
Click to expand...

A "wavier"? Was he smoking one of them funny cigarettes at the time?
 
wabower said:
Push this button and this button, the plane will fly itself. Then push this button and tell whoever answers that you need a little help.
Click to expand...
HUH :nonod: the CFI never showed me those buttons in the C150:D. If we were in 12J I would say "stand on the right pedal when the engine is running to go straight ; use the radio; When you are over SeaTac's runway, cut the power and hold it level at 60. it will land itself." Dave
 
TangoWhiskey said:
My wife went through the ground portion of the Pinch Hitter course, and they gave her this checklist, which she has with her when we fly--just in case.

http://www.checkmateaviation.com/Products/E_S_P_/e_s_p_.html

It's very good, but a customized version for YOUR plane (i.e., not all radios are the same, or you might have glass cockpit G1000/Avidyne/Evolution setup) would be a nice start.

Here's a sample of what Side 1 looks like, for reference:

ESPSide1.gif


Side 2 covers how to land the plane, including how to identify an airport from the air, or pick a road/race track/open field, descend, level off, determine the wind direction, lower the landing gear, when and how to use flaps (using the white arc as a guide), how to line up and pick an aiming point on the runway, fly to that point while controlling airspeed (keep it in the middle of the white arc), touchdown, stop on the runway (using the lower half of the foot pedals to steer the plane like a sled), applying brakes using both feet pushed at the TOP of the pedals, and shut down the engine (pulling the red mixture control and turning off the red master switch).
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure this is the one I have. I downloaded mine for free from somewhere.
 
Great and thanks everyone! I think it's time to set up a non-pilot checklist, put it in the right side pocket and make it part of my preflight passenger briefing.
 
AdamZ said:
On my first real long XC with my wife and daughter I tried to show my wife how to use the radio and the basic four climb, descend, turn and level I also told here a bit about the throttle. Her words to me were " don't die in the plane cause I'm not interested in this stuff.

If in fact you have someone who is interested I think the basic four, radio work and use of the throttle have a reasonable chance of getting them on the ground. Other than that the pinch hitter course is a good gift for someone like that.
Click to expand...

My wife is thoroughly not interested, and fine, that is her choice. But, our daughter is in the back seat, and I'd like to think that if I check out they'd at least get a chance to live.

Several flight instructors I know have volunteered to take her up for a few hours of pinch hitter type stuff gratis, yet she still declines.

[DR BRUCE] sigh [/DR BRUCE]
 
Bill Jennings said:
My wife is thoroughly not interested, and fine, that is her choice. But, our daughter is in the back seat, and I'd like to think that if I check out they'd at least get a chance to live.
Click to expand...

Actually, I meant the she'd (daughter) would get a chance to live. My wife is disinterested, so if she wants to go down with the ship, so be it, but it bugs me that she (wife) doesn't want to learn to maybe save our girls life.

:mad2:
 
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