What happened to backpage?

I get that it is a bigger problem than you want to believe it is. It is a bigger problem than I want to believe, as well.

By “bigger”, you mean more than 0.4%, right? Numbers posted above said 1.5 million (sounds high) victims in the US, divided by 350 million people (low)= 0.004286.

Assuming the same ratio on BP, they were shut down because the owners could not identify the 1 in 200 ads where the people were being forced? Did I do that math right, I am a mathematician which means I cannot add, subtract, multiply or divide.
 
That is a real stretch (good sound bite I suppose), but what you suggest would require the phone company to be aware of the content of the calls (monitoring). With advertising, the publisher is well aware of the content. A better comparison would be a TV commercial advertising (with a picture) a young, under aged, prostitute for hire. I personally don’t have a real issue with consenting adults paying for sex (though I have never needed or desired such a service), but there really is a problem with underage sex trafficking. The numbers, to me, are staggering. I, apparently, don’t feel the same way as you about the responsibility of these media professionals contributing to the problem. They can and should do better at setting standards for what is appropriate.

Edit: Come on Rich, you build websites. Would you knowingly build one that advertised young, underaged prostitutes (I am guessing not).

No, I wouldn't. In fact, I used to run a minimally-moderated soapbox site; and when illegal stuff (mainly doxing) showed up, I deleted it (and when appropriate, reported it). The whole purpose of the site was to be an uncensored forum for people to say whatever they wanted, but that didn't include illegal behavior.

But I didn't shut down the whole site because a few people used it for illegal purposes. The fact that some people use a resource for vile purposes shouldn't prevent consenting adults from using it for purposes that are none of anyone's business. When I finally did shut the soapbox site down, it was because the small amount of money it generated didn't justify the time I had to spend reviewing content that the various filters flagged as suspicious.

Now scale that up to a site as big and popular as Backpage was, and it becomes literally impossible to police. But Backpage did try. They had algos in place to flag suspicious content, removed millions of ads in a typical month, and reported hundreds of cases of suspected child exploitation every month to NCMEC (who, by the way, acknowledged that; but also contended that Backpage's efforts were inadequate).

The problem with algos is that eventually, people figure out ways around them. But expecting people who run sites like Backpage or Craigslist to manually review every single posting is categorically ridiculous. It would, in fact, be analogous to the phone company listening in to every conversation to make sure nothing illegal was being discussed. Even if they had the inclination, they don't have the staff.

Even the government doesn't hold itself to the same standards as it expected Backpage to meet. Pretty much everything that's said by anyone in America using any kind of electronic media is monitored -- but it's by machines, not by real people listening in to every phone call and reading every email and text message. It's all done by machines, and it's very imperfect. (Use your favorite search engine to search on Echelon if you want to know more.)

So why should a private company that runs what is basically a bulletin board be expected to perfectly do that which is impossible for the government, with all its vast resources, to do; and why is that same demand not made of other companies whose business is providing a platform for communication by others, such as the phone company, the Post Office, or the general store operator who has a physical bulletin board in his store for the public to post messages on?

There are limitations to both technology and human review. The fact is that a forum owner can't prevent anything from being posted. All they can do is remove it (and report it, if appropriate) once it is; and even then, only after becoming aware of it.

Backpage tried, albeit imperfectly, to do that. I read somewhere when the case first broke that Backpage reported more trafficking and child exploitation cases than all other entities combined. Does the fact that they weren't perfect justify removing a resource that most people used for perfectly legal purposes?

Rich
 
By “bigger”, you mean more than 0.4%, right? Numbers posted above said 1.5 million (sounds high) victims in the US, divided by 350 million people (low)= 0.004286.

Assuming the same ratio on BP, they were shut down because the owners could not identify the 1 in 200 ads where the people were being forced? Did I do that math right, I am a mathematician which means I cannot add, subtract, multiply or divide.
Gee, now that you put it that way, I guess we can ignore the problem (1.5 million victims), because it is only .4% (my major was math as well, but I am also human). And no, the percentage of ads for underaged victims does not necessarily correspond to the general population (big jump there).

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ackpage-back-in-congressional-crosshairs.html

“In January, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations released a report claiming that Backpage knowingly facilitated underage trafficking by actively editing ads in its “adult services” section.

In January, Portman claimed the site carefully edited words like “Lolita,” “rape,” “little girl” and “Amber Alert” to skirt the law. Portman said the company ran sanitized versions knowing that young girls were being sold for sex. The investigation also revealed that Backpage tried to cover up its actions.
 
No, I wouldn't. In fact, I used to run a minimally-moderated soapbox site; and when illegal stuff (mainly doxing) showed up, I deleted it (and when appropriate, reported it). The whole purpose of the site was to be an uncensored forum for people to say whatever they wanted, but that didn't include illegal behavior.

But I didn't shut down the whole site because a few people used it for illegal purposes. The fact that some people use a resource for vile purposes shouldn't prevent consenting adults from using it for purposes that are none of anyone's business. When I finally did shut the soapbox site down, it was because the small amount of money it generated didn't justify the time I had to spend reviewing content that the various filters flagged as suspicious.

Now scale that up to a site as big and popular as Backpage was, and it becomes literally impossible to police. But Backpage did try. They had algos in place to flag suspicious content, removed millions of ads in a typical month, and reported hundreds of cases of suspected child exploitation every month to NCMEC (who, by the way, acknowledged that; but also contended that Backpage's efforts were inadequate).

The problem with algos is that eventually, people figure out ways around them. But expecting people who run sites like Backpage or Craigslist to manually review every single posting is categorically ridiculous. It would, in fact, be analogous to the phone company listening in to every conversation to make sure nothing illegal was being discussed. Even if they had the inclination, they don't have the staff.

Even the government doesn't hold itself to the same standards as it expected Backpage to meet. Pretty much everything that's said by anyone in America using any kind of electronic media is monitored -- but it's by machines, not by real people listening in to every phone call and reading every email and text message. It's all done by machines, and it's very imperfect. (Use your favorite search engine to search on Echelon if you want to know more.)

So why should a private company that runs what is basically a bulletin board be expected to perfectly do that which is impossible for the government, with all its vast resources, to do; and why is that same demand not made of other companies whose business is providing a platform for communication by others, such as the phone company, the Post Office, or the general store operator who has a physical bulletin board in his store for the public to post messages on?

There are limitations to both technology and human review. The fact is that a forum owner can't prevent anything from being posted. All they can do is remove it (and report it, if appropriate) once it is; and even then, only after becoming aware of it.

Backpage tried, albeit imperfectly, to do that. I read somewhere when the case first broke that Backpage reported more trafficking and child exploitation cases than all other entities combined. Does the fact that they weren't perfect justify removing a resource that most people used for perfectly legal purposes?

Rich
I guess if that is their defense... that isn’t consistent with what i am reading, though. It looks like they were both knowledgeable and complicit. I guess time will tell. The prosecution thinks they have a case.
 
I guess if that is their defense... that isn’t consistent with what i am reading, though. It looks like they were both knowledgeable and complicit. I guess time will tell. The prosecution thinks they have a case.
It’s politically advantageous for them to assert they have a case. Prosecutors don’t admit they are wrong. When they figure that they are what normally happens is they get out a bigger hammer.
 
Ok, looks like there is a lot of support for Backpage on POA. This really isn’t my fight, just a sad situation. Carry on, then.
 
Gee, now that you put it that way, I guess we can ignore the problem (1.5 million victims), because it is only .4% (my major was math as well, but I am also human). And no, the percentage of ads for underaged victims does not necessarily correspond to the general population (big jump there).

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ackpage-back-in-congressional-crosshairs.html

“In January, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations released a report claiming that Backpage knowingly facilitated underage trafficking by actively editing ads in its “adult services” section.

In January, Portman claimed the site carefully edited words like “Lolita,” “rape,” “little girl” and “Amber Alert” to skirt the law. Portman said the company ran sanitized versions knowing that young girls were being sold for sex. The investigation also revealed that Backpage tried to cover up its actions.

Sorry, the world is not “safe” nor “fair” and no matter how large and powerful we let the government get it never will be, even if we ban “all the things” it won’t be, I know it makes you FEEL safe when the government tosses its weight around and stuff get banned, but it’s just that, a feeling and banning backpage yields no more REAL “safety” than a child’s favorite blankie.
 
Within a year or two we should know whether shutting down Backpage decreases or increases the realm of internet facilitated sexual exploitation.
With BP accessible to the general public, there was opportunity for those concerned about sexual exploitation of minors to monitor the ads and flag suspicious ones for follow-up. Now that this market is moving into areas of the darknet that the regular internet user doesn't usually venture into, that mechanism has disappeared. BP could be subpoenaed and pushed to towards taking more robust action. Some darkweb operator in Elbonia, not so much.
We'll see.
 
I personally couldn't care less if consenting adults want to buy or sell sex and really I'd rather law enforcement resources be put to more beneficial pursuits... or for it not be illegal at all. Seems like it would have been more beneficial to keep backpage up and set up a reporting system so they could try to catch the people involved in trafficking and stuff with kids.

We've had the internet for what 20 years or more now? Yet I feel people still fundamentally don't understand it. You can't censor the internet, it has never worked and it's probably not even possible. Oh you can censor a website or remove things from a directory/search engine sure but it will still exist somewhere. They shut down this website, I'm sure there are dozens more places that are even more hidden. It's not hard, put your website on an overseas server in a country that won't cooperate with the FBI and have your users connect with non-logging VPNs to hide their identity.

And I really don't like the idea of a website having to take responsibility for illegal things users may post there. Makes it way too easy for anyone who wants a group silenced to just point to some illegal thing... or simply plant said illegal thing and call the cops in.
 
So, hasn't the yellow pages had an "escort service" section for nearly as long as we've all been alive?

I really don't see the difference 'twixt this and the personals on Craigslist. Backpage may have been more guilty because if their direct activities but I always laughed at the "craigslist personals uproar" considering that the yellow pages has been winking and nodding at prostitution since phones were invented.
 
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I think what you are going to see, rightly or wrongly, is that backpage will pop up in another form, this time off shore. A rudimentary Google search reveals a few alternates, including an 'ebackpage.com' which has an identical format. It is likely based in the Balkans or someplace where it can't be touched, just like the crypto lock hacker rings.
 
Reminds me of something I read in a book, once (I guess fact can be stranger than fiction) ;) that does stink.

There are a few back stories that actually happened... (insert wink smiley)
 
I've learned a lot in this thread - I've never even heard of backpage.

I guess I need to get out more!
 
I could make the argument the hypergamy that prevails in our society can be construed as a shamelessly hypocritical form of prostitution. If men were not all of a sudden thirsty all the time because access is no longer a proposition hinging on financial slavery, our consumer society would be in deep ---t, I tell you that much.

Marriage within that hypergamy is an economic contract first and foremost. People who get butt hurt about that utterance simply resemble the remark too much for their own comfort. Semantics aside, it is a straight up trade in my book for the "marry up" crowd. As such, I find the argument against calling it prostitution a distinction without difference. Count me in on the legalization and taxation of prostitution and recreational drugs. Prohibition never works. Puritanism is a cancer against human progress and enlightenment.

Why the taxation? Just because we could and raise money, or do you believe in sin taxes?
 
Why the taxation? Just because we could and raise money, or do you believe in sin taxes?

He wants big government to be bigger and people to be poorer :dunno:
 
Why the taxation? Just because we could and raise money, or do you believe in sin taxes?

As to taxation, that was a hypothetical alternative. I'm not actively advocating for it to clarify. The point of my post is just against prohibition. As to morality taxes, again my socially libertarian position on this topic certainly does not lend itself to the notion I would advocate for "morality legislation", which I would consider "sin taxes" would fall under.
 
Thought you wanted to add additional taxes?

No, especially not in the context of making people pay for the privilege of "sinning" as was suggested. I reject the mere premise of having consensual discretionary activity being labeled as a vice or sinning in the first place, so it's a moot point to further debate the taxation red herring.

I have a ton of disagreements on the manner in which our taxes are currently utilized, but I am not against taxation in principle. But like I said, that wasn't part of the scope of my intended inputs on this particular thread, so I'll defer commentary on taxation issues for a different thread altogether.
 
No, especially not in the context of making people pay for the privilege of "sinning" as was suggested. I reject the mere premise of having consensual discretionary activity being labeled as a vice or sinning in the first place, so it's a moot point to further debate the taxation red herring.

I have a ton of disagreements on the manner in which our taxes are currently utilized, but I am not against taxation in principle. But like I said, that wasn't part of the scope of my intended inputs on this particular thread, so I'll defer commentary on taxation issues for a different thread altogether.

Roger that, in that case disregard :)
 
What does that mean?

There used to be a very active, opinionated, colorful, entertaining, crazy uncle type poster here named Henning. He had mentioned more than once in his posts about Backpage and what you could find there. He is the only reason I know about Backpage. I had never heard of it until he posted about it.
 
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