What features would you like to see in a (free) online flight planner?

[sba55]

My Masters thesis is due at the end of the year, and I need to find a project for it. I decided on a flight planner type web application, since there doesn't seem to be a really nice, free one out there.

So...what features would you want to see? I don't just want to make a runwayfinder.com/skyvector.com clone, but rather a real flight planner with a focus on weather.

Some ideas I have so far:

- Sectionals/Enroute charts
- TAFs/METARs/TFRs/AIRMETS/SIGMETS/FRZ LVL/etc.
- SkewT diagrams anywhere along the route of flight
- Terrain views/cross section
- Stored routes management
- Some sort of routing algorithm. I'd love it to be smart enough to figure out best routes based on altitudes, KICE, fuel prices from airnav, etc.
- Nice printable route kit. Appropriate charts, IAPs, etc.
- TOLD cards + "briefing" page that lists some of the factors we're often concerned about. FRZ LVL along the route, nearest VFR airport in case of lost nav., expected ATC route, local TRACON/Center direct phone number to close flight plan, etc.
- Personal minimums settings, ie. warn me if expected weather is lower
- NOTAMs. Not sure about this one because with the current state the NOTAM system is in, intelligently and reliably parsing NOTAMs might be too difficult.

Ideas more than welcome!

-Felix

 

[SCCutler]

> If your "auto-routing" function could use recently-issued clearances as its basis (especially as regards STARs and DPs)- this may be what you meant anyway; and
> Briefing counts as an official one.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

- NOTAMs. Not sure about this one because with the current state the NOTAM system is in, intelligently and reliably parsing NOTAMs might be too difficult.

I've always wished someone would write something to blow away all the FDC NOTAMS that are halfway across the country from your route of flight...

 

[nddons]

I attended an AOPA Pilot Town Meeting last week, and Phil Boyer announced significant changes in their Real Time Flight Planner, to be rolled out in the fall. One change includes making it internet-based, so one could go to their own flight plan on any computer. That would be great to get updated logs on a multiple leg trip.

I would like to see a program that reflects the true course, wind correction angle, E/W variation, and E/W devation to arrive at a compass heading, and shows those values to arrive at a compass heading.

 

[Areeda]

I've kind of toyed with this idea myself and would be willing to participate if you can accept it. I do have code to crawl the naco site, download the approach plates and afd info storing them in a mysql database. (for those who asked previously it's back up and available).

I use Jepp's FliteStar which does most things very well but the things I'd like to see:

• My own departure/arrival procedures, stored and chosen. FliteStar has no clue what SoCal does to flight plan. I always end up manually doing it myself.
• As a web app, how about looking at how other's have routed between points.
• I would also like to see the route plotted in Google Earth for help recognizing visual waypoints.

The big problem I ran into that kept me from pursuing very far is how do you plan to get up to date airport, navaid, V-airway, T-airway and terrain data?

• I like the Airnav fuel price optimization.
• You might want to add weight and balance, density altitude and performance calculations.

Good luck on this. I'm looking forward to trying it.

Joe

 

[sba55]

Thanks for all the ideas so far. It's already been very helpful! Keep them coming!

Joe - it'd be fun to work together on this. As for up to date data, I think I have a solution. The airport data is the most straightforward as the FAA makes it available online (and it's updated every 56 days I believe) as CSV files. The other navdata, including V airways, fixes, etc. can be obtained from a number of sources. I've talked with the Office of Aeronautical Information Services and they can provide up to date data (supposedly in any format, but I got the impression that they don't do this all that often). Also, NACO has a CD subscription that might have most of what we need on it:

http://naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/catalog/charts/digital/chart_supp

I haven't ordered the CD yet, but I'm planning to do that next week.

I agree that FliteStar is very nice. I think it's missing some features that could be implemented easily for a web app and it's also not very big on weather or notam support, from what I've seen. I think there's potential there...

-Felix

 

[timwinters]

I've always wished someone would write something to blow away all the FDC NOTAMS that are halfway across the country from your route of flight...

What I'd like to know is how you get it to toss out the NOTAMS that are ALL THE WAY across the country from your route of flight.

Halfway is good!

 

[mdreger]

How about printing "strip maps". Make them, 8-10 inches across the route line centered and display 50 or 100 miles either side of the intended route. All displayed airports and navaids should have the pertinent information altered to be displayed on the map.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

What I'd like to know is how you get it to toss out the NOTAMS that are ALL THE WAY across the country from your route of flight.

Halfway is good!

C'mon Tim, we're in the Midwest. Anywhere in the US is no more than halfway across the country to us!

 

[AdamZ]

Add a W&B calulator and graph.

 

[Areeda]

Felix,

Would you post the link for the FAA airport database, please?

Another feature I'd like to see: Have you used Bufkit? Nice graphs based on different weather models. The program uses time on the ordinate axis. What I'd really like to see is the planned route on the ordinate (at the expected time) for those graphs.

I certainly agree with you that FliteStar has a lot of room for improvement.

What I really like about your idea is the potential to do a much better job of integrating multiple sources of information.

I wonder what (if any) off-line tools would be good to have. I've used FliteStar many times at airports where dial-up and cell reception were a problem let alone a high speed connection. Probably as a result of using Airnav pick fuel stops.

Joe

 

[sba55]

Felix,

Would you post the link for the FAA airport database, please?

Sure, it's http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/airports/airport_safety/airportdata_5010/

Another feature I'd like to see: Have you used Bufkit? Nice graphs based on different weather models. The program uses time on the ordinate axis. What I'd really like to see is the planned route on the ordinate (at the expected time) for those graphs.

That's a neat idea. I really would like this app to have a focus on weather.

I certainly agree with you that FliteStar has a lot of room for improvement.

What I really like about your idea is the potential to do a much better job of integrating multiple sources of information.

I wonder what (if any) off-line tools would be good to have. I've used FliteStar many times at airports where dial-up and cell reception were a problem let alone a high speed connection. Probably as a result of using Airnav pick fuel stops.

Joe

The integration with other available information is also the most exciting to me. I think that's one aspect that other flight planners haven't really explored....

 

[sba55]

Add a W&B calulator and graph.

Should be easy enough and definitely useful. Thanks!

 

[mantakos]

IMHO, what's lacking in all the web-based flight planners I've seen is simply a decent interactive user-interface, one that allows "rubber-banding" of routes, implemented in a usable way. I don't think the world needs another PHP-based flight planner, but if you can build a halfway decent GUI with javascript/java/flash/etc, then you will have created something useful that (as far as I know) didn't exist before.
-harry

 

[sba55]

IMHO, what's lacking in all the web-based flight planners I've seen is simply a decent interactive user-interface, one that allows "rubber-banding" of routes, implemented in a usable way. I don't think the world needs another PHP-based flight planner, but if you can build a halfway decent GUI with javascript/java/flash/etc, then you will have created something useful that (as far as I know) didn't exist before.
-harry

Couldn't agree more. That's exactly what I'm hoping to do. Feel free to elaborate on how you'd want the UI for route rubber banding to work...

 

[Areeda]

Couldn't agree more. That's exactly what I'm hoping to do. Feel free to elaborate on how you'd want the UI for route rubber banding to work...

Not to preempt Harry but I'll take a stab at it, using FliteStar for comparison.

I use the rubber banding when the auto-routing:

• Does not match what I know ATC will give me (pre-defined personal arrival/departures will eliminate most of this)
• I prefer a more scenic route, or want to avoid a known turbulent area.
• I want to route around some airspace.

FS lets you grab a fix on the flight plan and move it or grab a segment and add a fix. By grab I mean click and drag.

Problem with FS is that it will create user waypoints (lat/lon) if you don't hit a known fix (airport/vor/ndb/intersection) close enough. I'd like a key (like control) to say find the known fix closest to the point. As a matter of fact I'd like that to be the default and the key to say make user WP if not close enough.

Joe

 

[gprellwitz]

Not to preempt Harry but I'll take a stab at it, using FliteStar for comparison.

I use the rubber banding when the auto-routing:

• Does not match what I know ATC will give me (pre-defined personal arrival/departures will eliminate most of this)
• I prefer a more scenic route, or want to avoid a known turbulent area.
• I want to route around some airspace.

FS lets you grab a fix on the flight plan and move it or grab a segment and add a fix. By grab I mean click and drag.

Problem with FS is that it will create user waypoints (lat/lon) if you don't hit a known fix (airport/vor/ndb/intersection) close enough. I'd like a key (like control) to say find the known fix closest to the point. As a matter of fact I'd like that to be the default and the key to say make user WP if not close enough.

Joe

And I'd like it to give you some information about the WP that would be highlighted, e.g. name of the VOR, basic info about the airport (fuel?, runway lengths). If I have a 500NM segment and want to add a stop or two, the map scale isn't at a level where you'll be able to make out the details needed to select the right airport.

Also, the ability to relatively easily do a multi-leg trip. Sometimes an airport is just a waypoint; other times it's an actual stop. If it's an actual stop and the planner supports range calculations, you should be able to associate it with the onboarding of fuel, and specify the amount.

 

[Sam D]

Hi Felix -- How about some type of airplane-wiki where, if one person inputs all the parameters for a particular type of plane (fuel burn, performance, etc, including basic W&B for use as suggested above), you can borrow that for your own purposes?

Sam

 

[sba55]

Hi Felix -- How about some type of airplane-wiki where, if one person inputs all the parameters for a particular type of plane (fuel burn, performance, etc, including basic W&B for use as suggested above), you can borrow that for your own purposes?

Sam

That's a good idea. I've wanted that feature quite a few times myself. Thanks!

Btw., I have an open seat if you want to go to Gaston's for the weekend of 6/7-9

-Felix

 

[tdager]

How about NONE.

There are a dozen web planners out there.

How about one, ONE STINKING ONE, decent aircraft maintenance tracker? I cannot find a single one that does not cost more than an annual for my airplane!

Now THAT is a project I would like to see!


*Sorry for the grumble, but man yours is not the first question/attempt on this subject. It has been done adnauseum...I would just like to see other aspects of flying, and ownership, addressed.

 

[Areeda]

How about one, ONE STINKING ONE, decent aircraft maintenance tracker? I cannot find a single one that does not cost more than an annual for my airplane!

Now THAT is a project I would like to see!

Since this isn't helping this thread, I started another one here to talk about maintenance tracker software.

Joe

 

[sba55]

How about NONE.

There are a dozen web planners out there.

How about one, ONE STINKING ONE, decent aircraft maintenance tracker? I cannot find a single one that does not cost more than an annual for my airplane!

Now THAT is a project I would like to see!


*Sorry for the grumble, but man yours is not the first question/attempt on this subject. It has been done adnauseum...I would just like to see other aspects of flying, and ownership, addressed.

That's a fair point. I'm not sure that I agree with the premise that there are lots of good free flight planners out there. I can't think of any. Which ones did you have in mind?

Until skyvector, we didn't even really have online sectionals. Skyvector is very rudimentary, though, and is limited. I like runwayfinder, but it doesn't have enroute charts.

I agree that there are lots of similar tools out there. But I also think that none of them are particularly good. In a situation like that, it seems to me that there is demand for something that gets it right. It's sort of like how we had a lot of search engines before Google, yet Google's search engine is a huge success because it's simple and effective....

-Felix

 

[jason]

That's a fair point. I'm not sure that I agree with the premise that there are lots of good free flight planners out there. I can't think of any. Which ones did you have in mind?

Until skyvector, we didn't even really have online sectionals. Skyvector is very rudimentary, though, and is limited. I like runwayfinder, but it doesn't have enroute charts.

I agree that there are lots of similar tools out there. But I also think that none of them are particularly good. In a situation like that, it seems to me that there is demand for something that gets it right. It's sort of like how we had a lot of search engines before Google, yet Google's search engine is a huge success because it's simple and effective....

-Felix

I agree. We all use multiple tools because they all do some stuff well. There is still room in this market to hit a home run.

 

[sba55]

Btw., Joe and anyone interested:

This is the data set I'll probably end up using:

http://naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/catalog/charts/digital/nfd

Unfortunately, it's in ARINC424 format, which I can't find any free documentation for. ARINC offers specifications, but they're $300. Silly....

On the plus side, it has all fixes, airways, navaids, etc...pretty much everything you have in your GPS.

-Felix

 

[write-stuff]

Not exactly what you were asking for, but you can add approach plates and METARs/TAFs to any website using the free widgets here:
www.FlightCentral.net/widgets

Just select the widget, specify the airport identifiers, click the button to generate the code, and drop it into your own .html.

 

[tdager]

That's a fair point. I'm not sure that I agree with the premise that there are lots of good free flight planners out there. I can't think of any. Which ones did you have in mind?

Until skyvector, we didn't even really have online sectionals. Skyvector is very rudimentary, though, and is limited. I like runwayfinder, but it doesn't have enroute charts.

I agree that there are lots of similar tools out there. But I also think that none of them are particularly good. In a situation like that, it seems to me that there is demand for something that gets it right. It's sort of like how we had a lot of search engines before Google, yet Google's search engine is a huge success because it's simple and effective....

-Felix

LOL..I know man, and I truly am sorry for messing up your thread. I just have searched high and low for a decent aircraft specific maintenance software that does not cost an arm and a leg and cannot find one.

Sorry.....

 

[Sam D]

That's a good idea. I've wanted that feature quite a few times myself. Thanks!

Btw., I have an open seat if you want to go to Gaston's for the weekend of 6/7-9

-Felix

Boy I wish I could do that. Of course, then you'd have to share your "who flew the farthest" prize.