What Exactley Does this Commercial Requirement Mean?

FlyingTiger

FlyingTiger

Pre-takeoff checklist
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FlyingTiger
10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

Does this mean full pattern i.e. crosswind, downwind, base and final or is a partial pattern ok like entering on base? I was working on this requirement and I'm not sure how many of my takeoff/landings counted. I did 3 at my home airport (WBW-uncontrolled) then flew over to a nearby class D (AVP) and landed for a full stop. Then did two full pattern takeoff and landings (each full stop) and then took off and went back to the home airport. Clearly I have at least two toward the 10 requirement but what about the initial landing when I entered from base and the departure takeoff. Do they count as one as well?
 
YOu can't do multiple full stop take off and landings @ night without flying the pattern.

Think about a c152 and a 10k runway..
 
Flying "base" seems to be a flight in the traffic pattern -- can you post the exact spot that's in (i.e. which FAR) so I can read it
 
§61.129 Aeronautical experience.

(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:
(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in airplanes.
(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least—
(i) 50 hours in airplanes; and
(ii) 50 hours in cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes.
(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least— .........

(4) Ten hours of solo flight time in a single engine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a single engine airplane with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement under paragraph (a)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed under §61.127(b)(1) that include—
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and
(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.
 
Notice how it doesn't say each takeoff and landing in the traffic pattern, only landing...so the first landing counts
 
I take that as just 10 take-offs and landings at a towered airport. No one is gonna know or care, how you got there.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
I take that as just 10 take-offs and landings at a towered airport. No one is gonna know or care, how you got there.
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They may or may not know, but if they do happen to find out you did ten T&G's on one pass down a 10K runway under tower control (and the evidence would be on the tapes), they will not be happy with you. But even if they don't, it's still an integrity issue -- choose wisely.
 
I think the point of that parenthetical is just to keep people from doing chains of stop'n'goes at ridiculously long runways like KMER. If you're good, you ought to be able to do 5 in one direction, then turn around on the runway and do 5 more, never getting above 10 AGL. That's not in the traffic pattern, so it doesn't count for the requirement.
 
I thought night landings had to be full stop, taxi back?
 
I did mine to a full stop and taxi back, but it wasn't my choice. :mad2:

I ****ed off the tower controller by telling him I heard that he was about to lose his job. Which I found out later was a false rumor.

He counted each landing over the radio and then called my flight school director to "verify" the landings.

What made it more annoying is that the towered field is an hour flight from home; plus I had to make an additional stop, per our rules, for fuel.

I finished about 4 hours later around 1AM. :mad2:
 
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Ron Levy said:
They may or may not know, but if they do happen to find out you did ten T&G's on one pass down a 10K runway under tower control (and the evidence would be on the tapes), they will not be happy with you. But even if they don't, it's still an integrity issue -- choose wisely.
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Show me one tower controller that would let you do that...
 
Guess we had passenger currency on the brain the other night because we did more full stops then needed. At this point, just need to hammer out some touch & gos one night and be done with it. The airport is only 5nm away from my FBO and usually dead at night. It's rather fun because it's like having my own private Class D airport :yesnod:
 
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Gucci Pilot said:
Show me one tower controller that would let you do that...
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I don't know why they wouldn't let you. We frequently fly in the flare all the way down the runway for training purposes.. SOmetimes the Mains inadvertently touch..
 
ja_user said:
I don't know why they wouldn't let you. We frequently fly in the flare all the way down the runway for training purposes.. Sometimes the Mains inadvertently touch..
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A "landing attitude demo" is a little different then asking to do 5 touch and goes down one pass of the runway. That's like people that log 2 landings when they bounce it.
 
FlyingTiger said:
10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

Does this mean full pattern i.e. crosswind, downwind, base and final or is a partial pattern ok like entering on base? I was working on this requirement and I'm not sure how many of my takeoff/landings counted. I did 3 at my home airport (WBW-uncontrolled) then flew over to a nearby class D (AVP) and landed for a full stop. Then did two full pattern takeoff and landings (each full stop) and then took off and went back to the home airport. Clearly I have at least two toward the 10 requirement but what about the initial landing when I entered from base and the departure takeoff. Do they count as one as well?
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What they are eliminating is logging 5 take off and landings in one pass down a 12,000' runway. They're fun and good practice, but you only count one landing per pass.
 
Ron Levy said:
They may or may not know, but if they do happen to find out you did ten T&G's on one pass down a 10K runway under tower control (and the evidence would be on the tapes), they will not be happy with you. But even if they don't, it's still an integrity issue -- choose wisely.
Click to expand...

:confused: Long Beach never had a problem with it, and at night when nobody else was flying you could ask for "tic tack toe" and fly all the runways turning back on parallels and doing 270s at the corners then hitting the diagonal. When traffic would be inbound they call us into a standard pattern.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yup, just full stop. You can do three stop'n'goes if you want. Just not three T&G's. Also, no tower requirement.
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Now if you're trying to meet the requirements of 14 CFR 61.129(a)(4)(ii), the landings can be touch and goes. So if you were going to knock night currency and commercial requirements out in one night, you'd could do three stop and goes, and seven touch and goes.

When I did it, I was at an airport with intersecting runways so I would depart on rwy 36, turn left crosswind to enter the left downwind for rwy 9, depart 9 and turn left for the downwind to 18...and hit all for runways. It gave something for the guy in the tower cab to do.
 
Always figured they wrote that one for the helicopter pilots then decided fixed wing pilots might try and get cheap too.
 
Henning said:
:confused: Long Beach never had a problem with it, and at night when nobody else was flying you could ask for "tic tack toe" and fly all the runways turning back on parallels and doing 270s at the corners then hitting the diagonal. When traffic would be inbound they call us into a standard pattern.
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By "they", I meant Flight Standards regarding it counting for the 61.129 requirement, not Tower regarding permission to do it.
 
Really, someone coming for a commercial is not going to have their night landings? Really? And this person is going to get his or her ten night landing by crow hopping up and down a tower controlled runway without ever going downwind?

For heaven's sake!!!
 
JimNtexas said:
Really, someone coming for a commercial is not going to have their night landings? Really? And this person is going to get his or her ten night landing by crow hopping up and down a tower controlled runway without ever going downwind?

For heaven's sake!!!
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Exactly what I was thinking.
 
You guys are forgetting landings at uncontrolled and IFR operations don't count. Those two items eliminated a bunch of night landings I have. Not that I would resort to "crow hopping" to get them if it was allowed, just staying these requirements may be easily met by those based out of towered airports while others may require a special trip or two.
 
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