TexasFlightServices
Filing Flight Plan
I work for one, and am currently doing a study. All opinions are appreciated. Also, does anyone know of a website that has current fly-in's and seminars in my area? Happy Tailwinds!
What draws you to, and keeps you returning to a flight school?
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murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
http://www.socialflight.com/
Get on the FAA's Safety email list.
Check the list of seminars & classes on the FAA's WINGS site:
https://www.faasafety.gov/WINGS/pppinfo/
Check the EAA's calendar
http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/events
I'm amazed that someone who works for a flight school (and may be a pilot) doesn't know about these websites.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
Now onto the discussion of a flight school.
Customer Service is #1.
Flight schools and CFIs who understand people are Customers FIRST, and Students SECOND. Of course I have the same issue with most physicians but that's another topic. If I'm willing to spend considerable $$$ then I expect to be treated in the corresponding manner.
I don't want to show up at the airport only to be told "whoops - airplane's in for service", or "sorry, XXXX is unavailable because he took another student in our SuperFantastic&Expensive airplane (so we can make more money renting it)". I understand these things happen, but don't make me waste MY time when a phone call is all that's needed. This is Professionalism & Being Aware of Where Your Paycheck Comes From. I'm fortunate that the Denver area has a large number of flight schools, not everyone has this luxury.
I like the Nordstrom model of Customer Service. Sales staff are available (unlike JCPenney's, Macy's, etc) but not agressive (unlike....nevermind, you've been to those stores). They will make a reasonable attempt to assist in your search for something. Nordstroms understands if the Customer is in the store, they really wants to spend money.
Safety is #2.
I want rentals to be properly maintained and not always unavailable because the shop didn't fix it right the first time. Personally, I don't care about the paint job. Nor do I care about the Latest & Greatest Avionics/Gadgets as long as they work properly. On the other hand I don't want a ratty, torn interior that's uncomfortable to fly in. I've had to use my Oregon Aero portable cushion more than once because the seats were in such disrepair as to be impossible to sit on for more than a few minutes.
#3 is CFI Competence.
Just because they've passed the FOI test (and let's not get into that discussion again) and demonstrated to an FAA person they are able to teach X topics, and can create a syllabus (altho it's unlikely any of them have ever taken a course in Instructional Design or even heard of it) does not mean they are able to teach. Educating is not just following a syllabus, it's recognizing & understanding what the student is doing wrong and how to correct it.
Far too many CFIs don't understand this aspect of education. They see what's wrong and the only "answer" is "Let Me Show You" or "Do It Again Until You Get It Right" until the Customer is so frustrated they quit taking lessons entirely. It's an iterative process, it requires USEFUL feedback, not just following the syllabus of building blocks of tasks.
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RalphInCA
Cleared for Takeoff
Professionalism, competence.
Good old boy and old-fashioned ways are fun but what draws me back is the above.
Good old boy and old-fashioned ways are fun but what draws me back is the above.
ColoPilot
Line Up and Wait
This x100. This is an expensive hobby (for those that fly for fun/hobby and not as a stepping stone to a career) and flight schools should recognize that and provide good customer service.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
Depends on the customer.
Some people shop at Nordstroms, some go to specialty shops, and I buy clothes off the clearance rack at Meijer.
Last flight review, my airplane was down so I went out of my way to get it done at a place I could do it in a Taylorcraft. For my retread (before I bought the airplane), I just went where the cost was the lowest in a genuine POS 152. So even I'm not consistent with myself.
Some people shop at Nordstroms, some go to specialty shops, and I buy clothes off the clearance rack at Meijer.
Last flight review, my airplane was down so I went out of my way to get it done at a place I could do it in a Taylorcraft. For my retread (before I bought the airplane), I just went where the cost was the lowest in a genuine POS 152. So even I'm not consistent with myself.
Eagle I
Pre-takeoff checklist
I went through four different flight schools before I found the one that worked for me. What attracted to me initially to three of them, anyway, was what I thought was a well-maintained fleet of planes.
Which brings me to my second requirement: good instructors. I'm sure most of us have been there, done that. Just because someone is a CFI doesn't mean he or she can teach well. Or, perhaps, they don't suit our particular learning style.
My other requirement was an atmosphere where I felt welcome and accepted. Funny that one other poster mentioned how he found the "gold old boy ways" fun. As a woman, I didn't find those ways so much fun. I was at one flight school for a year, and never saw another female student or instructor. It was just plain weird!
So, finally, what kept me returning to my last flight school was a combination of everything I was looking for: a well-maintained fleet and a culture of safety;, good instructors who truly care about all students, not just the ones they're training; and an atmosphere where I felt welcomed as a student and respected as a customer.
Oh yeah, and reasonable rental rates helped, too.
Which brings me to my second requirement: good instructors. I'm sure most of us have been there, done that. Just because someone is a CFI doesn't mean he or she can teach well. Or, perhaps, they don't suit our particular learning style.
My other requirement was an atmosphere where I felt welcome and accepted. Funny that one other poster mentioned how he found the "gold old boy ways" fun. As a woman, I didn't find those ways so much fun. I was at one flight school for a year, and never saw another female student or instructor. It was just plain weird!
So, finally, what kept me returning to my last flight school was a combination of everything I was looking for: a well-maintained fleet and a culture of safety;, good instructors who truly care about all students, not just the ones they're training; and an atmosphere where I felt welcomed as a student and respected as a customer.
Oh yeah, and reasonable rental rates helped, too.
SkyHog
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Everything Offends Me
Ease of rental is one. I don't like having to prove anything everytime I want to fly. FBOs/Flight Schools that require a copy of my current medical or a valid flight plan for every flight are pretty much discredited and ignored unless they are the only option.
Customer service is important, and I expect that the people working the desk recognize that when I have people with me, they are my passengers, and should be treated with as much or more respect than I am. I also appreciate it when I'm actually given respect as a captain, rather than as some dude that they have to take a moment away from their crossword to dispatch.
I like birds that are well maintained and pretty, but not necessarily with all of the bells and whistles of a modern aircraft - I really don't care about that stuff. That said, because there's no fancy stuff in the panel, the plane should be as inexpensive as possible. Fuel Surcharges are a cheater's way of raising rental costs without putting it on the board as part of the base fee, and are a huge warning signal of a shady operation, IMHO.
I also like variety in airplane choices. Having 6 172s and an Arrow is really ****ty, since I hate flying 172s, and the Arrow is always booked. Grab some Cherokees, 172s, a Diamond, and 2 Arrows or something, and you're golden.
Finally, give me a place to park when I get there that doesn't require that I walk for a mile to get in. If that means issuing me a badge to the gate, that's fine, but I hate having to park, walk to a gate and enter a code, then walk another mile through hangars to get to where I can be dispatched, and I hate taking passengers through the same rigmarole.
Customer service is important, and I expect that the people working the desk recognize that when I have people with me, they are my passengers, and should be treated with as much or more respect than I am. I also appreciate it when I'm actually given respect as a captain, rather than as some dude that they have to take a moment away from their crossword to dispatch.
I like birds that are well maintained and pretty, but not necessarily with all of the bells and whistles of a modern aircraft - I really don't care about that stuff. That said, because there's no fancy stuff in the panel, the plane should be as inexpensive as possible. Fuel Surcharges are a cheater's way of raising rental costs without putting it on the board as part of the base fee, and are a huge warning signal of a shady operation, IMHO.
I also like variety in airplane choices. Having 6 172s and an Arrow is really ****ty, since I hate flying 172s, and the Arrow is always booked. Grab some Cherokees, 172s, a Diamond, and 2 Arrows or something, and you're golden.
Finally, give me a place to park when I get there that doesn't require that I walk for a mile to get in. If that means issuing me a badge to the gate, that's fine, but I hate having to park, walk to a gate and enter a code, then walk another mile through hangars to get to where I can be dispatched, and I hate taking passengers through the same rigmarole.
JimNtexas
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Jim - In Texas!
Flight school customer service is pretty much unheard of here in Central Texas. I've lost count of the times I've walked in to one and been totally, utterly ignored. It's happened to me in the school where I spent a boat load of money getting my IR and commercial, and most of a multi, and it's happened in the multi-million dollar flight school on the cover of every magazine gold plated school we have around here.
It's happened when I've walked up the flight school desk and two CFI's were BS'ing, and therefore didn't have time to talk to the old geezer who wanted to ask where he might, pretty please, spend the best part of $10K for a CFI course. And when the old geezer doesn't leave, which is clearly what they want to happen, they basically point to the rates on the bulletin board and say something like, "Well, our clapped out POS Gutless is that much an hour, and the instructor is that much an hour, and you'll need to buy books and stuff".
I was taught the basics of customer service when I got my first real job sacking groceries.
Why can't the typical GA flight school at least hire a local grocery clerk to give their staff a 30 minute briefing on rudimentary customer service concepts!??!
I don't need to be treated like a special snowflake, but geeze guys, I get better service at Juan's Used Car Emporium when I try to buy a 1990 Chevy Impala!
It's happened when I've walked up the flight school desk and two CFI's were BS'ing, and therefore didn't have time to talk to the old geezer who wanted to ask where he might, pretty please, spend the best part of $10K for a CFI course. And when the old geezer doesn't leave, which is clearly what they want to happen, they basically point to the rates on the bulletin board and say something like, "Well, our clapped out POS Gutless is that much an hour, and the instructor is that much an hour, and you'll need to buy books and stuff".
I was taught the basics of customer service when I got my first real job sacking groceries.
Why can't the typical GA flight school at least hire a local grocery clerk to give their staff a 30 minute briefing on rudimentary customer service concepts!??!
I don't need to be treated like a special snowflake, but geeze guys, I get better service at Juan's Used Car Emporium when I try to buy a 1990 Chevy Impala!
N918KT
Line Up and Wait
Any flight school that has a sport pilot training curriculum and LSAs for rental I definitely would come back to.
Not only that, from my years of jumping from flight school to flight school I also considered other important criteria such as:
1. CFIs that have good customer service skills:
CFIs need to show that they care about me and my progress in flight training. The current CFI I was with does care about me in my training and also has excellent communication skills. I even consider him a good friend of mine.
2. LSAs that are available and well maintained:
This is important to me because I had flight schools with a sport pilot curriculum that closed down entirely or simply closed their sport pilot program. I need a flight school that will keep their sport pilot program running for a long time to keep me from switching. I also need LSAs that are well maintained because when I arrived at another flight school to train in the 162, it was down for maintenance for so long that I got tired of waiting around and flying in their 152s, so I switched to my current school keeping well maintained LSAs in mind.
3. Sport Pilot flight schools that are a reasonable driving distance from home.
I tried searching for SP flight schools that are close to home but it is very hard to find them in my area, so I began searching farther out until I found my current flight school an hour and 15 minutes drive away from my home in a neighboring state. It's a pain making the drive, but it is worth it in my opinion, because that flight school cares about the customer's progress in flight training, reasonable rates, and have well maintained LSAs. If a flight school is far away from my home, as long as it has good quality of the flight school, the LSAs, and the CFIs themselves, I will do business with them, unless if it is really far away.
Not only that, from my years of jumping from flight school to flight school I also considered other important criteria such as:
1. CFIs that have good customer service skills:
CFIs need to show that they care about me and my progress in flight training. The current CFI I was with does care about me in my training and also has excellent communication skills. I even consider him a good friend of mine.
2. LSAs that are available and well maintained:
This is important to me because I had flight schools with a sport pilot curriculum that closed down entirely or simply closed their sport pilot program. I need a flight school that will keep their sport pilot program running for a long time to keep me from switching. I also need LSAs that are well maintained because when I arrived at another flight school to train in the 162, it was down for maintenance for so long that I got tired of waiting around and flying in their 152s, so I switched to my current school keeping well maintained LSAs in mind.
3. Sport Pilot flight schools that are a reasonable driving distance from home.
I tried searching for SP flight schools that are close to home but it is very hard to find them in my area, so I began searching farther out until I found my current flight school an hour and 15 minutes drive away from my home in a neighboring state. It's a pain making the drive, but it is worth it in my opinion, because that flight school cares about the customer's progress in flight training, reasonable rates, and have well maintained LSAs. If a flight school is far away from my home, as long as it has good quality of the flight school, the LSAs, and the CFIs themselves, I will do business with them, unless if it is really far away.
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Kayoh@190
As much as I hate to admit it, back when I was working on my multi-commercial, this is probably exactly what swayed me in the direction of one particular school. When you're in your early 20s, you don't know any better!
But holy ***t was she cute.
These days I just want something inexpensive yet safe to tool around in.
Concorde
Pre-takeoff checklist
Cold beer when flying is done?
Definitely friendly people, and good rental prices.
TexasFlightServices
Filing Flight Plan
All very valid points, customer service is important to me. Safety/Maintenance is also equally valid. I don't know about the "hot babe" part. Last thing I want to see is a prissy dumb blonde girl telling me my account balance in a high pitched voice. As a woman, I wish there were hot male receptionists as the norm! That would be perfect.
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JimNtexas
Pattern Altitude
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Jim - In Texas!
But aren't most male pilots hot by definition? There are plenty of them milling around most flight schools.
TexasFlightServices
Filing Flight Plan
Not my school...the men are so unattractive Smart, but ugly...lol.
Smart, but ugly...lol.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Joking about counter babes aside all I want in a flight school were I not an owner would be three things
1) Planes that are well maintained and not always undergoing maintenance
2) Competitive prices. They don't have to be the cheapest in the area, but they should be within 5-10% of the best prices in the area for similar equipment.
3) Friendly/cordial/attentive staff. I should be known by name by any regular workers after the first couple lessons. It should also not seem like a chore that you have to help me. Complain about me all you want after I leave, but when I'm there I (and all other customer) should be treated like I just gave you a $1000 tip.
Things beyond that I start looking at it like you are wasting money on overhead.
1) Planes that are well maintained and not always undergoing maintenance
2) Competitive prices. They don't have to be the cheapest in the area, but they should be within 5-10% of the best prices in the area for similar equipment.
3) Friendly/cordial/attentive staff. I should be known by name by any regular workers after the first couple lessons. It should also not seem like a chore that you have to help me. Complain about me all you want after I leave, but when I'm there I (and all other customer) should be treated like I just gave you a $1000 tip.
Things beyond that I start looking at it like you are wasting money on overhead.
spiderweb
Final Approach
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Ben
And by that, of course, you mean an aircraft, right?
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Kayoh@190
jordane93
Touchdown! Greaser!
Good instructors, good prices, good structure, lots of students, friendly desk people, quality planes, availability of planes
spiderweb
Final Approach
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Ben
Hahahahahaha! Well played, sir!
Sorry, couldn't resist!
PW_Plack
Pre-takeoff checklist
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Paul Plack
The consistent reports of poor customer service across all regions suggests to me that part of the problem is time-builders working as CFIs when they'd really rather not. That's a tough one to fix given the way the system works, but if I managed a flight school those with negligent customer service skills would have to build time somewhere else.
The FBO nearest me just became a Cirrus Training Center, and I went to their open house a few weeks back. Even when we reached the point in the conversation where it had become evident I was not wealthy enough to afford an SR20, the rep continued to treat me politely and continue the conversation. That spoke volumes to me.
I've also been greeted promptly when I've walked in for a sectional or even just a question. I'd consider springing for a flight review in a Cirrus just because I appreciate the service.
The one downside is this FBO announced, then shut down its LSA program, which used two lease-back 162s. I can only assume the economics were so far from projections they just couldn't continue.
The FBO nearest me just became a Cirrus Training Center, and I went to their open house a few weeks back. Even when we reached the point in the conversation where it had become evident I was not wealthy enough to afford an SR20, the rep continued to treat me politely and continue the conversation. That spoke volumes to me.
I've also been greeted promptly when I've walked in for a sectional or even just a question. I'd consider springing for a flight review in a Cirrus just because I appreciate the service.
The one downside is this FBO announced, then shut down its LSA program, which used two lease-back 162s. I can only assume the economics were so far from projections they just couldn't continue.
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ateamer
Pattern Altitude
Quality of training. CFIs who not only know their stuff but know how to train a pilot to be self-sufficient along with proficient.
Airplanes that are safe and affordable. In a trainer, I don't care about shiny paint, leather upholstery or the latest bells and whistles. I just want the basic equipment that's needed for the rating being trained for.
Good prices. I don't mind paying a bit more for the CFI, as a good trainer has put a great deal of time, effort and money into mastering their craft, has tremendous respinsibility and should be paid well for it.
Airplanes that are safe and affordable. In a trainer, I don't care about shiny paint, leather upholstery or the latest bells and whistles. I just want the basic equipment that's needed for the rating being trained for.
Good prices. I don't mind paying a bit more for the CFI, as a good trainer has put a great deal of time, effort and money into mastering their craft, has tremendous respinsibility and should be paid well for it.