What does "Limitations - English Proficient" mean

It's required for the ICAO. All FAA certs have it, foreign certs may or may not.
 
Dalrain said:
It's required for the ICAO. All FAA certs have it, foreign certs may or may not.
Click to expand...

All the NEW FAA certs have it. If you have an older one without it, and you want to be squeaky clean to fly in Europe, you've got to get yours reissued with the "limitation."
 
flyingron said:
All the NEW FAA certs have it. If you have an older one without it, and you want to be squeaky clean to fly in Europe, you've got to get yours reissued with the "limitation."
Click to expand...

How is this a limitation if the international aviation language is English?
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
How is this a limitation if the international aviation language is English?
Click to expand...

It's an FAA wording thing. If you don't have it, you theoretically can't exercise your pilot privileges.

I had to get a new one to be technically legal. Cost $2 IIRC.

Cheers
 
ICAO requires pilots to be proficient in English. The "limitations" section of a pilot certificate is the only place where it would make sense to put free-form text. So rather than redesign the certificate fields, they put it in that section.
 
I was required to get it, but as I hadn't updated my cert with a non-SSN cert number yet I was able to do it for free as they offered to change the cert number for free. So I saved $2.00 and that made me happy.
 
I updated my cert last winter to get the statement, knowing I was headed to Canada this summer.
 
Oh, will I need to order a new one for the Bahamas / Eastern Caribbean trip? I have the hard plastic one, but it doesn't say "English Proficient" on it. Are the borders / customs folks in those countries or the U.S. strict about it?
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Oh, will I need to order a new one for the Bahamas / Eastern Caribbean trip? I have the hard plastic one, but it doesn't say "English Proficient" on it. Are the borders / customs folks in those countries or the U.S. strict about it?
Click to expand...

To be legal you have to have it. I do, so I don't know if hey looked specifically for that. You also will need an FCC operator permit, though no one checks for it.
 
gprellwitz said:
To be legal you have to have it. I do, so I don't know if hey looked specifically for that. You also will need an FCC operator permit, though no one checks for it.
Click to expand...

I beleive the FCC requirement has been removed. I still have mine from back in the 70's though along with my original paper PP Certificate.

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
I beleive the FCC requirement has been removed. I still have mine from back in the 70's though along with my original paper PP Certificate.

Cheers
Click to expand...
Nope, not removed. Though AFAIK no one checks! Also, they don't expire, so the one you have (and the one I have) is still good!
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=rr
and http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=wncol

Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit (RR)


Description
RR holders are authorized to operate most aircraft and aeronautical ground stations. They can also operate marine radiotelephone stations aboard pleasure craft (other than those carrying more than six passengers for hire on the Great Lakes or bays or tidewaters or in the open sea) when operator licensing is required.
An RR is NOT needed to operate the following:

  • Ship stations operating only on VHF frequencies that do not travel to foreign ports or make international communications (unless the vessel carries more than six passengers for hire, or the ship is larger than 300 gross tons and is required by law to carry a radio station for safety purposes).
  • Shore radar, shore radiolocation, maritime support, marine utility, or shore radionavigation stations.
  • Survival craft stations or EPIRBs.
  • Ship radar stations, if (a) the radar frequency is determined by a nontunable, pulse type magnetron or other fixed tune device, and (b) the radar is capable of being operated exclusively by external controls.
  • Coast stations.
  • Aircraft stations which operate only on VHF frequencies and do not make foreign flights.
  • Aircraft radar sets, radio altimeters, transponders or other aircraft automatic radionavigation transmitters.
  • ELTs or aviation survival craft stations used solely for survival purposes (testing only).
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
gprellwitz said:
Nope, not removed. Though AFAIK no one checks! Also, they don't expire, so the one you have (and the one I have) is still good!
Click to expand...

from the wording

"An RR is NOT needed to operate the following:

  • Aircraft stations which operate only on VHF frequencies and do not make foreign flights.
  • Aircraft radar sets, radio altimeters, transponders or other aircraft automatic radionavigation transmitters.
  • ELTs or aviation survival craft stations used solely for survival purposes (testing only)."
Does that mean if I don't fly outside the USA and don't talk on a UHF set, I don't need one? Just wondering in case I ever loose it (or it finally disintegrates).:wink2:

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
from the wording

"An RR is NOT needed to operate the following:

  • Aircraft stations which operate only on VHF frequencies and do not make foreign flights.
  • Aircraft radar sets, radio altimeters, transponders or other aircraft automatic radionavigation transmitters.
  • ELTs or aviation survival craft stations used solely for survival purposes (testing only)."
Does that mean if I don't fly outside the USA and don't talk on a UHF set, I don't need one? Just wondering in case I ever loose it (or it finally disintegrates).:wink2:

Cheers
Click to expand...
Yup, you only need it for border crossing, not for flying within the US.
 
gprellwitz said:
To be legal you have to have it. I do, so I don't know if hey looked specifically for that. You also will need an FCC operator permit, though no one checks for it.
Click to expand...
You only need the English Proficient for international operations as it's an ICAO thing. Some countries, like France, check; others may not. Similar on the RRTO -- some countries, like Canada and the Bahamas don't require it, but others, like Turks & Caicos, do require it and do check it. Technically, the FCC requires it for all border crossing flights, so technically it's required by the FCC to go to Canada and back even though it's not required on either side of the border, but they never check.
 
I would rather be legal with respect to the rrto thing. God forbid someone with a burr up their butt would want to get me in trouble over a $60ish item!
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
How is this a limitation if the international aviation language is English?
Click to expand...

Although it's in the "Limitations" section, it's actually certifying English proficiency, rather than saying you're limited to English. It's kind of an anti-limitation, confusingly designated.
 
I had to sit for a English Language Proficiency Exam before obtaining my foreign ATPL. The test was sitting in a booth with a tape recorder, and the proctor would ask a question (aviation related) then I would give my answer (example: "tell me how you would deal with an engine failure after departure?")

The test was about an hour and a half.. The test results were issued 2 weeks later and I tested at "Level 6" and was issued my certificate. Testing lower than a 6 (4 or 5) means requalifying every 2 years and a level 3 means a retest.

Interesting enough Korean and Chinese pilots all get a level 6 ELP. As the saying goes, depends on who's giving the test.......
 
RotorAndWing said:
I had to sit for a English Language Proficiency Exam before obtaining my foreign ATPL. The test was sitting in a booth with a tape recorder, and the proctor would ask a question (aviation related) then I would give my answer (example: "tell me how you would deal with an engine failure after departure?")

The test was about an hour and a half.. The test results were issued 2 weeks later and I tested at "Level 6" and was issued my certificate. Testing lower than a 6 (4 or 5) means requalifying every 2 years and a level 3 means a retest.
Click to expand...
The Aussies do it a bit differently. They have a tape of a conversation between an Australian transport flight crew and a South Asian controller taken from an actual inflight smoke-in-the-cockpit incident. The test is conducted by the Aussie equivalent of a DPE. They play the tape, stopping after each transmission by the controller and ask what the controller said and what it means to you -- and what you'd say/do in response. Very realistic, and it was something of a challenge when the controller used nonstandard phraseology -- I can see how the crew had a hard time working with that controller in that situation.

And like R&W, I tested Level 6 for the issuance of my CASA pilot certificate. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top