What do you look for in a FBO?

It depends on how close an FBO is to town, but a few things that I have appreciated with various FBO's:
1. Relationship with the local rental car company so the car can be left for me even if the FBO isn't open
2. A known taxi service that actually likes driving "all the way out" to the airport and doesn't put me at the bottom of their queue
3. For the quick stops for fuel/food - a bonus is always a spot for the dog to run around for a few minutes - brown grass is better than asphalt. (I realize this is more an airport ops request, but thought I'd throw it out there)
Thanks for asking.
 
I like destination FBOs that have negotiated crew rates with nearby hotels.
:yeahthat: As far as I know, it costs the FBO nothing to negotiate a rate. But please, NEGOTIATE! I have found a few FBOs that offered a negotiated rate that was higher than the posted rate on the hotel web site. If you get me $50-$100 off the Hotel, I will be much more inclined to buy your full service fuel, pay your tie down fee and tip your staff.
 
fat_girl_in_yoga_pants.jpg


:yikes: Where's David with his eye bleach when you need it?!
 
Would be nice if the FBOs would put up a thread,of what they want from their customers. Just a thought.
Be nice and don't treat us like your doormat. We're there to help and serve you, but that doesn't mean that we want to be treated as a lesser people. Some of us are pilots, too.
I like destination FBOs that have negotiated crew rates with nearby hotels.
Have them. Many people still find their own to save $5-10 even though we set up the hotel, the shuttle etc.
That's easy, the FBO's will just tell us to leave our money and move along out of the way...



I had long, thought-out responses typed for each of these responses but I erased them. It's incredibly difficult for me to reply calmly and respectfully to the last comment. One of the places I worked had prices higher than the national average by typically $.20/gal. The location wasn't great for trucks to get there which cost $$$ for fuel to come in. Not to mention do you have any idea the amount just INSURANCE for an FBO is? You have to have enough insurance to cover a G650 and 10 CEOs on board. Not to mention the 2 100LL fuel trucks, the 4 Jet-A trucks, 2 lav cars, 3 hangars, 2 GPUs, 4 tugs (including a Lektro) and 20 employees. But heaven forbid we are slightly more expensive than the FBO that you stopped at in Northern Arizona with one employee and a coffee pot. I've landed at some big-name FBOs including Cutter, Landmark, MillionAir and a couple of the "Air Center"'s. Why are people willing to pay $7/gal there, but not $5.90/gal at an FBO with the same service standards, but a different name? I read reviews and go off those, not price. I want value. I wish my customers did too.
 
Be nice and don't treat us like your doormat. We're there to help and serve you, but that doesn't mean that we want to be treated as a lesser people. Some of us are pilots, too.

Have them. Many people still find their own to save $5-10 even though we set up the hotel, the shuttle etc.




I had long, thought-out responses typed for each of these responses but I erased them. It's incredibly difficult for me to reply calmly and respectfully to the last comment. One of the places I worked had prices higher than the national average by typically $.20/gal. The location wasn't great for trucks to get there which cost $$$ for fuel to come in. Not to mention do you have any idea the amount just INSURANCE for an FBO is? You have to have enough insurance to cover a G650 and 10 CEOs on board. Not to mention the 2 100LL fuel trucks, the 4 Jet-A trucks, 2 lav cars, 3 hangars, 2 GPUs, 4 tugs (including a Lektro) and 20 employees. But heaven forbid we are slightly more expensive than the FBO that you stopped at in Northern Arizona with one employee and a coffee pot. I've landed at some big-name FBOs including Cutter, Landmark, MillionAir and a couple of the "Air Center"'s. Why are people willing to pay $7/gal there, but not $5.90/gal at an FBO with the same service standards, but a different name? I read reviews and go off those, not price. I want value. I wish my customers did too.
It's good to vent. And customers really do need to look in a mirror when they are complaining.

Here is one comment that I can understand getting under your skin:
That's easy, the FBO's will just tell us to leave our money and move along out of the way...
But that is actually one of the things I want in an FBO. I want to be able to trust that if I pay them what ever they ask, I will be provide services that measure up to that fee. I would love it if I could just taxi in, give my credit card number and leave; knowing that everything will be taken care of professionally.
But maybe that is just me.
 
I also work for an FBO part time (flying money) and I agree with Mir. Im always happy to help customers with any questions and needs. The biggest thing to me is the Crew car. We have 2, and gladly hand them out. I just wish people wouldnt run them for hours and then not buy fuel for their aircraft or the crew car they used.
 
Be nice and don't treat us like your doormat. We're there to help and serve you, but that doesn't mean that we want to be treated as a lesser people. Some of us are pilots, too.

Have them. Many people still find their own to save $5-10 even though we set up the hotel, the shuttle etc.




I had long, thought-out responses typed for each of these responses but I erased them. It's incredibly difficult for me to reply calmly and respectfully to the last comment. One of the places I worked had prices higher than the national average by typically $.20/gal. The location wasn't great for trucks to get there which cost $$$ for fuel to come in. Not to mention do you have any idea the amount just INSURANCE for an FBO is? You have to have enough insurance to cover a G650 and 10 CEOs on board. Not to mention the 2 100LL fuel trucks, the 4 Jet-A trucks, 2 lav cars, 3 hangars, 2 GPUs, 4 tugs (including a Lektro) and 20 employees. But heaven forbid we are slightly more expensive than the FBO that you stopped at in Northern Arizona with one employee and a coffee pot. I've landed at some big-name FBOs including Cutter, Landmark, MillionAir and a couple of the "Air Center"'s. Why are people willing to pay $7/gal there, but not $5.90/gal at an FBO with the same service standards, but a different name? I read reviews and go off those, not price. I want value. I wish my customers did too.

The reviews are about as useless as the classified section is here. They are whitewashed by the FBOs. I've written exactly one negative review on airnav. It was well deserved and promptly deleted.

I need a place to park my plane and gas. I really don't care what the mahogany desk, leather couch and the plastic trees cost.

KJZI (Charleston Executive) seems to have hit the sweet spot. Atlantic is one the field, I was charged no ramp fees, Self Serve fuel is $5.49/gal and they gave me a crew car to use for the day. For those in the twins who want to use the Company Credit Card, full serve is $7.27.

I pay more when I'm flying into a metro area and need a hotel and long term ground transportation. They can typically get me a deal on a rental car and hotel that make their higher prices a wash, and it never hurts to ask for a better rate "if I fill up".
 
In addition to usual, as a charter pilot who spends a lot of time waiting around, I appreciate FBO's that have shower facilities so I can go for a run.


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That's always nice. I fly corporate and 95% of our trips are out and back on the same day, so nice facilities go a long way. Crew cars are always a plus too.
 
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I started a new job at a new FBO recently, and my new boss goes "LIKE LEARJET CAPTAIN!!!!" and did the arms. I almost lost it when she said "Have you seen the video?" "Who HASN'T seen the video is the better question!!"

Also, I've had a customer almost identical to that, even in a Learjet. Though he previously owned a Saberliner. He is too cheap to pay the cost for full service which netted hime a $.50/gal discount since he was in our hangar. He bought his own couple hundred thousand dollar hangar and is now self-serving. It was absolutely epic to watch a Saberliner self-serve. Pretty funny with the Learjet too, especially since it's a 60.

A Sabreliner? I thought those were only used as drug running planes these days..
 
I also work for an FBO part time (flying money) and I agree with Mir. Im always happy to help customers with any questions and needs. The biggest thing to me is the Crew car. We have 2, and gladly hand them out. I just wish people wouldnt run them for hours and then not buy fuel for their aircraft or the crew car they used.

Good luck on that one. Some people are "takers." Two takers don't make for a great marriage.

In life we tend to get back what we give. I appreciate your being a "giver" with your desire to help your customers with their needs.
 
As for courtesy cars, I completely understand if a place makes buying fuel from them a condition of use of the courtesy car. You have to be a customer in order to be afforded little freebies. Taking a courtesy car without buying fuel is like going into McDonalds and filling up a bottle of ketchup at their ketchup fountain.
 
As for courtesy cars, I completely understand if a place makes buying fuel from them a condition of use of the courtesy car. You have to be a customer in order to be afforded little freebies. Taking a courtesy car without buying fuel is like going into McDonalds and filling up a bottle of ketchup at their ketchup fountain.

If I'm not buying any fuel, I don't use any facilities or services. The only exception was when I stopped in Farmington, NM. I went in, asked about a hotel and cab. They arranged the hotel with a pretty discounted crew rate and called for the hotel shuttle. I asked about fuel, and the guys there said, "Don't buy any fuel from us, unless you absolutely need it. We are way too expensive." Which in their defense they, at the time, were.
 
I haven't read the entire thread so I hope this isn't a repeat.

What I DON'T expect from an FBO is to do anything to my airplane that I'm either not aware of or that is not authorized. A very simple example of this happened to me yesterday during a short stop to pick up a dog.

The line guy came out when we landed, parked us, and proceeded to to chock my plane on the starboard side.

Fortunately I saw him do this, so when I got out of the plane, I walked around to the chocks, removed them, and re-installed them on the port side. He gave me a strange look so I proceeded to tell him why I did this. One, I see them on my side when I'm getting in the plane. Two, I was the one that placed them there and I'm far more likely to remember to remove something I placed on my plane (cowl plugs, chocks, etc.) than those that someone else placed there.

But, if you insist on chocking a plane...chock the pilot's side wheel...not the nose wheel or copilots wheel.

And, yes, we should do a "walk-around" before departing but that's an entirely separate topic.

And, for heaven's sake. Don't move my plane every day for three days for "marketing purposes" like was done one long weekend when I was vacationing at the lake of the Ozarks. I returned to the airport to find that my plane was tied down in a different location than where I had left it. When I questioned as to why, I was told that the airport manager told them to move my plane up by the road every day so those driving by could see it. He liked my plane and wanted to show it off. That's the most ballistic I've ever gone on an FBO manager and staff.
 
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Well, I for one appreciate it when they move my plane. I flew into Norman, OK back in 2005. And when I came out my plane was relocated quite a ways from where I parked it. And I am glad they did. They were re-doing the ramp area and all the concrete where I was parked was chewed up down to the rebar. When I arrived the FBO was closed, and there was way for them to contact me to ask if they could move it.

Had they not moved it, I would have been stuck there until....well...I don't know when, but quite a long time.
 
Well, since someone else had brought it up, I'll say it as well.

Don't touch my plane unless or until I tell you to touch it.

No, I am not the captain of that Lear jet, but I am going to strap my butt in that little thing and commit aviation after I leave here.
 
I had long, thought-out responses typed for each of these responses but I erased them. It's incredibly difficult for me to reply calmly and respectfully to the last comment.

I'm sorry you feel that way. The facts include most FBO's are in business to make a profit. The profit equation requires that income exceed expenses. The prudent business manager should maximize profit by maximizing income with cognizant minimization of expenses. The simplest way to do that is have pilots pay and then go away. There is nothing personal or derogatory in my comments. If you wish to read something into them then by-all-means have at it and get all worked up. No skin off my teeth when someone goes bonkers.
 
Well, since someone else had brought it up, I'll say it as well.

Don't touch my plane unless or until I tell you to touch it.

No, I am not the captain of that Lear jet, but I am going to strap my butt in that little thing and commit aviation after I leave here.

I don't particularly get this. I have had FBOs put my plane in a hangar in the face of an impending storm, I tipped well for that. They aren't going to break anything I won't catch on preflight.
 
Don't listen to what pilots say watch what they do. Staff the place with hot young chicks that know talking to fat old guys is part of the job. Run the rest anyway you want.

Thank you. I'm amazed no one posted about the hotties. I could care less about fuel price, rest room etc.... It's the eye candy I want to see. Friendly and provocative. Come on guys. :goofy:
 
If I'm not buying any fuel, I don't use any facilities or services. The only exception was when I stopped in Farmington, NM. I went in, asked about a hotel and cab. They arranged the hotel with a pretty discounted crew rate and called for the hotel shuttle. I asked about fuel, and the guys there said, "Don't buy any fuel from us, unless you absolutely need it. We are way too expensive." Which in their defense they, at the time, were.
The line tech at Farmington was embarrassed and apologetic as she charged the landing fee (which was in the hundreds but we are not a small airplane). I guess they need to charge Atlantic prices everywhere.

On the subject of moving the airplane, it seems that people's opinions are all over the place. Any FBO I have been to wants you to leave the parking brake off in case they need to move it, which often happens to us. So if you are particular about it maybe you should not only tell them but make a sign to put in the window.
 
I don't particularly get this. I have had FBOs put my plane in a hangar in the face of an impending storm, I tipped well for that. They aren't going to break anything I won't catch on preflight.

For a good reason, sure! EdFred's was a good reason also. But to move my plane three days in a row so it could be used for highway eye candy. There is absolutely no excuse or reason for that.
 
Just fly an ugly plane like I do Tim. They will only move it once - as far away from the FBO as they can. :D
 
I don't particularly get this. I have had FBOs put my plane in a hangar in the face of an impending storm, I tipped well for that. They aren't going to break anything I won't catch on preflight.

What's hard to get? Call me, tell me what you are going to do, ask for permission, and then go move it if I think it's needed. :confused:

What not to do: Move my plane all over the ramp multiple times, climb on the wing, put your funky, greasy fingerprints all over the polished Al, break the nose steering gear link by turning the power tug too sharp, and leave the fuel filler cover loose so it bangs around on the wing in the wind. :nono:
 
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If it's a fuel stop, I look for cheap fuel at an airport that is on my way and has a decent runway, with approaches if I'm flying IFR and clean restrooms.:D
For destinations, I look first at fuel prices and fees of the most convenient airport/FBO, then compare to others in the area and weigh out the costs vs proximity to where I am going. :D
I don't always pick the absolute cheapest place, while I do like nice accomodations, I am seldom at an FBO for more than 15 minutes, coming or going.
The pretty staff is fine, but my wife doesn't allow me to date, so it's not a big deal to me. ;) I'd prefer the counter person be attentive and take care of what I need, if it's a pretty female great, if it's a 70 year old man, that's fine too. ;)
 
I think it is obvious that there is no unanimous consensus and if you try to cater to everyone you will fail. Pick a niche you want to occupy and be the best in that niche. You CANNOT offer cheap fuel and all the amenities. Offer what you are comfortable with, and do the best you can. Just remember, everyone likes "clean". (Well, almost everyone, but you probably shouldn't cater to those that don't). So keep the place clean and demand that your staff be courteous and attentive.
 
break the nose steering gear link by turning the power tug too sharp,

This is particularly painful when it's the integrated engine mount and nose strut support which is broken instead of the steering link. And a preflight won't find it unless you either pull the cowl or lay down under the nose and look in exactly the correct place.
 
This is particularly painful when it's the integrated engine mount and nose strut support which is broken instead of the steering link. And a preflight won't find it unless you either pull the cowl or lay down under the nose and look in exactly the correct place.


ACK! I sure hope you would notice something on run-up.
 
ACK! I sure hope you would notice something on run-up.
Nope, didn't notice anything until I was prepping the aircraft for annual inspection. That structure is one tough truss.
 
I think it is obvious that there is no unanimous consensus and if you try to cater to everyone you will fail. Pick a niche you want to occupy and be the best in that niche. You CANNOT offer cheap fuel and all the amenities. Offer what you are comfortable with, and do the best you can. Just remember, everyone likes "clean". (Well, almost everyone, but you probably shouldn't cater to those that don't). So keep the place clean and demand that your staff be courteous and attentive.

Exactly! If you want top notch services, you pay top notch prices. My current job is with a big-name corporate FBO and although our prices are a bit outrageous, our services and amenities are too. And if you're nice we can give you a discount. :yes:
 
Exactly! If you want top notch services, you pay top notch prices. My current job is with a big-name corporate FBO and although our prices are a bit outrageous, our services and amenities are too. And if you're nice we can give you a discount. :yes:

That's been my experience at all the big name FBOs. By being friendly I can normally negotiate my fuel cost to within 25¢ of the cheapest around, sometimes I don't even have to negotiate, I just ask "What's your price for 100+ gallons?" and I get quoted a good price. I've also taken ramp rats with me to build some free multi time if I'm coming right back through or dropped them an hour or so down the line where they could get a ride back and gotten fuel at 'employee price'. Also when I use the crew car to run for food, I ask if anyone wants me to bring something back.
 
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You may be a bit of an ass on the Internet henning, but I certainly would not cringe at you coming into my work. We get offered food/Starbucks a lot but unless you're like a great friend that i see outside of work too I usually decline. The offer is always appreciated though.

Also, I want free multi time. Trying to work on those connections.. I've gotten plenty of "call me when you're at 1200" offers. Need at least 50 hours multi though I'd think.

And if you want a discount, like you said be nice. I will say we have a lot more flexibility on jet than we do on av. There is such little profit in av that we can't give the huge discounts like we can on jet.
 
Getting back to the original, first, post:

I do go through TOP once in a while - a couple years ago, during the Presidential primary season, I pulled into parking in the Archer. I was taking a buddy of mine out for lunch. I taxied in and saw a line of black SUVs, police cars, and police motorcycles on the ramp. Of course, my first instinct was to think, "What did I just do? Was there a TFR I didn't know about?" (I HAD checked for TFRs).

I got marshalled into a parking spot, and I asked the ramp guy what was going on. He then pointed to the Gulfstream (I think, I can't remember) that was pulling in behind me, and said, "Gotta go, and crap...I don't have time to get my Obama mask!". He then ran out to marshal the jet.

Turns out it was Rick Santorum coming in for the Kansas primary. My buddy and I were about the only ones on the ramp, so we watched for a minute. As Santorum came down the stairs I waved at him, just for fun. He saw me and gave me a big thumbs up. So I have THAT going for me.

He and his entourage got into one of the SUVs and the whole line headed off to the Capitol.

Then I walked through the FBO and sure enough, on the front desk was a rubber Obama mask. I mentioned to the ramp guy that I though he had been joking, he said, "Hey, I don't kid about things like that."
 
I have a Cessna 172. There are two scenarios for choosing an FBO.

First, if the choice of an FBO in the neighborhood within 200 miles of my home base is usually determined by the price of fuel and the proximity to food or a destination. For example, when I was based in New England, two airports were usually on every pilot's go-to list: Barnes (KBAF) and Sky Acres (44N). Both had very good fuel prices and an on-field restaurant. The one in the terminal at Barnes was a little fancier and pricier than the one at Sky Acres, which was closed during most weekdays. Fuel at Sky Acres was self-serve and the fuel at Barnes was delivered by a tank truck. Both sported friendly people, although Sky Acres did not have any line staff. Whenever we went on a cross-country jaunt, we'd stop at one of these fields to refuel before going home for our last leg of the journey. Sometimes they were the destination themselves, just for the meal.

Sky Acres had one old sofa near an old stove, but very few people bothered to sit there. There wasn't a convenient place to do flight planning and getting a briefing was up to you and the drafty phone booth outside in the cold. Barnes, being a terminal, didn't have very inviting pilot services either.

In earlier days, another destination of the same sort was Columbia County (1B1) in New York near the upper Hudson River. It had no services except cheap self-serve fuel and a good restaurant within walking distance. But, we stopped going there after the restaurant burned down. Food is very important.

The second scenario for choosing an FBO is determined by quick, inexpensive, and easy in and out. It includes the price of fuel and proximity to food, but it also includes easy access to overnight accommodations and up-to-date flight planning facilities. These are the stops for a real cross country multi-leg journey of 600 to 3000 miles in length. Here are the criteria/steps we go through to plan stops along the way:

We consider airports within 50 miles of projected route of flight or possible deviation toward the destination. For example, if we are flying from New York to Oklahoma and there is a line of thunderstorms expected to rise from the Gulf to the Great Lakes, we might also consider airports all along the eastern seaboard down to Georgia as well as straight westward routes. We plan to land every 3 hours, which is usually every 300 miles. As an FBO operator, there is nothing you can do about this first consideration.

Next, we get the price of fuel from 100LL.com and AirNav. We eliminate the most expensive stops. We eliminate all stops that are more than $1.00 more in price than surrounding stops. Preference is given for inexpensive self-service fuel.

A good weather/pilot planning facility is a must. We need to be aware of and on top of the weather at every stop and we need to do it quickly. I need an Internet connection, free wifi for my tablet is good, too.

These stops will require quick food and water as well as available transportation. So, a crew car scores high, but food and inexpensive lodging within walking distance will suffice. We need to be able to spend the night if we get too tired to continue or if we experience a weather or mechanical delay.

A mechanic's facility on-field is another consideration. We don't expect to break down, but you never know and we have found ourselves stranded for days at a time waiting for a repair.

I don't care about your furnishings. If your facility is spotless chrome and glass, that is OK. If it is warm and cozy, that is OK, too. I don't have to live there. But, please make sure the bathroom is clean.

But, let me emphasize that being greeted with poor service or a surly attitude will forever put your FBO on our -Always Avoid- list. If we have to wait around, don't expect to see us again. If you don't provide restroom facilities that are available 24/7, we won't come back. Although we have a cell phone, we also need to be able to use your phone, because ours may not be able to call out. If we ever land after hours and feel stranded, we'll never come there again. If we feel we've been gouged, we'll avoid returning. I don't like ramp fees.
 
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