What can you ask the DE to do?

EHITCH

EHITCH

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Elizabeth
Welcome back to all the Gastoniers, I've loved reading your stories, but please post more pix! And tell us who is who (whom?)!
Tonight's question is, what can you ask the DE to do during your checkride? I remember a similar post from several months ago (perhaps on that "other" board) and I remember one response from Henning along the lines of "ask him to hold 'em and fold 'em" regarding charts .....
But, for instance, could you ask a DE to look for traffic and point it out to you? They all say "Just treat me like a passenger" (yeah, right) so my passengers (poor future sacrificial lambs that they will be) are going to be asked to keep an eye out for and point out traffic to me. What if the examiner sees another aircraft and you do not? Hypothetically speaking, of course.
Thanks,
Elizabeth
 
You can TELL him to do anything a PIC would tell a passenger to do. You will be PIC and the DE will be a pax. If he sees traffic that you do not, that's OK. You delegated that (provided this isn't the monovision medical ride....)

:)
 
EHITCH said:
Could you ask a DE to look for traffic and point it out to you? They all say "Just treat me like a passenger" (yeah, right) so my passengers (poor future sacrificial lambs that they will be) are going to be asked to keep an eye out for and point out traffic to me. What if the examiner sees another aircraft and you do not? Hypothetically speaking, of course.
Thanks,
Elizabeth
Click to expand...

Not only can you, you might even get an extra credit point for it.
 
EHITCH said:
Welcome back to all the Gastoniers, I've loved reading your stories, but please post more pix! And tell us who is who (whom?)!
Tonight's question is, what can you ask the DE to do during your checkride? I remember a similar post from several months ago (perhaps on that "other" board) and I remember one response from Henning along the lines of "ask him to hold 'em and fold 'em" regarding charts .....
But, for instance, could you ask a DE to look for traffic and point it out to you? They all say "Just treat me like a passenger" (yeah, right) so my passengers (poor future sacrificial lambs that they will be) are going to be asked to keep an eye out for and point out traffic to me. What if the examiner sees another aircraft and you do not? Hypothetically speaking, of course.
Thanks,
Elizabeth
Click to expand...
The DE for my RH checkride was upfront about the rules. He said that if he had to grab the controls I failed, but that if I needed a break, for instance, I could ask him to fly for a couple of minutes without influencing the outcome. He also demontrated some things that were new to me.

I asked him to verify we were clear on the left side of the helo before starting the engine, and also to clear left when we entered taxiways and runways.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
The DE for my RH checkride ..... said that if he had to grab the controls I failed, but that if I needed a break, for instance, I could ask him to fly for a couple of minutes without influencing the outcome.
Click to expand...

That's interesting! I've heard reports of DEs taking the controls to demonstrate something, but never offering to give the applicant a chance to break for a minute.
E
 
EHITCH said:
That's interesting! I've heard reports of DEs taking the controls to demonstrate something, but never offering to give the applicant a chance to break for a minute.
E
Click to expand...

Mine took the controls for a couple minutes so he could stretch his legs. The dude was at least 6'6", and couldn't get the C152 seat back far enough to straighten his legswithout kicking the rudder pedals.

Bout made me cry when he asked, though, because he'd also told me that if he had to take the controls it meant I'd failed. I couldn't figure out what I'd screwed up LOL.
 
On my IR checkride, my DE let me take the hood off for about 3 minutes just so I could wipe the sweat off my face. We had just finished steep turns and I think she was afraid I was getting motion sick. I assured her I was absolutely fine but that I just sweat a lot! :)
 
I advise all my students to brief the DE on such matters as handling real emergencies, looking for traffic, etc. Do this briefing on the ground after the formal portion of the oral exam is concluded. The DE will be impressed that you're acting as PIC. If the examiner as any problem with what you propose, he or she can object before you go out to the airplane.

Examples:

You: I know that we'll probably simulate emergencies during this test, but if either one of us suspects that an actual emergency is occuring, we'll state that clearly, and we'll work together to solve the problem.

You: I always brief my passengers to be on the lookout for traffic. Please let me know if you see any potential conflicts that I haven't already identified. When I'm under the hood, I also need to hear you clear us before I begin a turn.

You: Part of this practical test involves me flying under the hood. While I'm putting the hood on or taking it off, I'll transfer the controls you, and when I'm set, I'll ask you to transfer them back to me.

Finally, I expect all my students to talk about what they're doing, both during dual instruction and on practical tests. Doing so really helps me (and later an examiner) understand why you haven't extended the flaps, or why you're reducing power, or why you're changing that NAV frequency. And if you start to fumble a maneuver such as steep turns, most examiners will cut you slack if you say something like, "I'm starting to lose some altitude, I'm correcting by shallowing the bank angle a bit and bringing the nose back up."
 
BruceAir said:
Examples:

You: I know that we'll probably simulate emergencies during this test, but if either one of us suspects that an actual emergency is occuring, we'll state that clearly, and we'll work together to solve the problem.
Click to expand...

I took it one step further on my ATP/AMEL ride. During the pre-departure briefing I discussed emergencies:

"While I appreciate any opportunity to demonstrate my capabilities, should we have an actual in flight emergency I suggest that you immediately inform me that the emergency is not of your making and that I then pass aircraft command to you since we both know that I have only 6 hours in make/model and I suspect that you have much greater experience both in terms of make/model and total time. I will then assist you as we attempt to resolve the problem."

The DE had no problem with that statement and I suspect it was the reason I detected no CRM related testing.
 
EHITCH said:
Tonight's question is, what can you ask the DE to do during your checkride?
Click to expand...

You can ask anything you want:

"Would you please hold this altitude and heading while I retrieve my E6B?"

"Would you please retrieve my E6B?"

"Would you please hold this altitude and heading while I compute time to destination?"

"Please take the E6B, place the arrow on the circular wheel under "150" and then read to me what time appears under "103"."

The DE may refuse to do anything.
 
EHITCH said:
That's interesting! I've heard reports of DEs taking the controls to demonstrate something, but never offering to give the applicant a chance to break for a minute.
E
Click to expand...

That was in a helicopter, and after doing pattern after pattern, then autorotations, hovering autos, etc. you get worn out. You can't ever take your hands off the controls, since the aircraft is unstable, so having a break for a minute makes sense. In real life flying, you would not be doing all those things in one flight. :)
 
Whirlwind said:
That was in a helicopter, and after doing pattern after pattern, then autorotations, hovering autos, etc. you get worn out. You can't ever take your hands off the controls, since the aircraft is unstable, so having a break for a minute makes sense. In real life flying, you would not be doing all those things in one flight. :)
Click to expand...
Ain't that the truth... 1.2 hours on the Hobbs and I was exhausted. But he taught me a few things as well.
 
BruceAir said:
I advise all my students to brief the DE on such matters as handling real emergencies, looking for traffic, etc. Do this briefing on the ground after the formal portion of the oral exam is concluded.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions and the examples, both to Bruce and to Ed.
This will be a very L-O-N-G passenger briefing, which I plan to do before the engine starts and the meter starts turning ......;)
Elizabeth
 
EHITCH said:
Thanks for the suggestions and the examples, both to Bruce and to Ed.
This will be a very L-O-N-G passenger briefing, which I plan to do before the engine starts and the meter starts turning ......;)
Elizabeth
Click to expand...

I don't know if I'd go getting too long and in depth. I just gave mine the same spiel I give my wife and kid, and that seemed to satisfy him. I just pretended (as best I could with the nerves and all) that he was just a passenger I was taking on a plane ride.
 
Joe Williams said:
I don't know if I'd go getting too long and in depth. I just gave mine the same spiel I give my wife and kid, and that seemed to satisfy him. I just pretended (as best I could with the nerves and all) that he was just a passenger I was taking on a plane ride.
Click to expand...

Joe, I got a kick out of your story about your ride. I imagine my reaction would have been the same when he reached for the controls -- oh no!
By "long," I meant in relation to what I usually do with a CFI on board, which amounts to seats-seatbelts-shoulder harnesses, and doors/windows closed/locked.
E
 
Hi Elizabeth,

Same as the above, I gave my DE a regular passenger briefing, including what to do in emergencies, and during the ride I asked him periodically if we were clear to the right. I also talked out loud the whole time, as I made decisions. He told me to climb to 3000, and I said, well, I'm not going to do that because the ceiling is right there, so I'm going to stop right here, which looks like 500 feet below. He'll like it if you think out loud.

Hey, good luck!!! How's the weather looking for Saturday? Post all the details afterwards.
 
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