What are my IR ground test chances if I "skip" the HSI questions?

tawood

tawood

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Tim
Okay, I give up.

I have tried for over a week to understand an HSI...I've watched videos (Sportys, King, and Youtube), I've read books (FAA and ASA) and I am now convinced that I will never get it. After all this study, if I now take a practice instrument exam using just HSI questions, I actually DO MUCH WORSE than random (If you have 3 choices on each question, I score roughly 10-15%). So, if I just move on, what are my odds of passing a IR ground without trying any further to understand an HSI? I know some people like their HSI, but I hope to god I never see one for the rest of my life!
 
Your chances are pretty good. Probably get one or two questions with HSI. Maybe you need to find a guy with an HSI in his plane and just go fly with him to see what it does. Hands on instead of theoretical learning.
 
there are a few apps that can be very helpful for understanding the HSI.
 
You will pass, assuming you do well on the rest of the test. HSI is tricky to test but pretty easy to read in real life.
 
tawood said:
Okay, I give up.

I have tried for over a week to understand an HSI...I've watched videos (Sportys, King, and Youtube), I've read books (FAA and ASA) and I am now convinced that I will never get it. After all this study, if I now take a practice instrument exam using just HSI questions, I actually DO MUCH WORSE than random (If you have 3 choices on each question, I score roughly 10-15%). So, if I just move on, what are my odds of passing a IR ground without trying any further to understand an HSI? I know some people like their HSI, but I hope to god I never see one for the rest of my life!
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If you understand a regular VOR/CDI, you can understand an HSI.

Rotate the entire figure until the arrow points up at 12:00. Then it is just like a regular VOR/CDI display. The "OBS" is at 12:00.

Additionally, sometimes some of the wrong answer choices can be eliminated by noting the magnetic heading of the airplane, by reading the HSI as a heading indicator. In fact, that should be your first step.
 
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Aside from the written, if you're actually going to fly serious IFR, you'll likley find planes rigged for IMC, not just IFR, are going to have HSIs, if not eHSIs, I'd HIGHLY recommend you learn HSIs if you want to be a IFR pilot.

Here's a good (and 100% free) online HSI sim, play around on it with your study material next to you, it'll probably help ya a bit

http://www.luizmonteiro.com/Learning_HSI_Sim.aspx


Blue skies, or rather gray skies ;)
 
Tell you what. Try www.GoldMethod.com. We have a "You pass or we pay" guarantee. Plus, we have a PoA promo code that will save you $50. Use "poa50" at checkout. Pretty cheap insurance, actually.
 
I agree on going ahead and figuring out the HSI. Once it 'clicks' for you, you'll never want to go back. And James331 is right, HSIs or glass (which works the same as an HSI) is the gold standard for a real IFR airplane.
 
ZeroPapaGolf said:
I agree on going ahead and figuring out the HSI. Once it 'clicks' for you, you'll never want to go back. And James331 is right, HSIs or glass (which works the same as an HSI) is the gold standard for a real IFR airplane.
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Actually, the glass HSI is superior to the mechanical HSI because it auto-slews to the correct track when changing course en route, departure, and especially on approach. But, the principles are the same. The difference with the mechanical HSI is that your fingers do the slewing.

The HSI is a piece of cake if taught properly.
 
aterpster said:
Actually, the glass HSI is superior to the mechanical HSI because it auto-slews to the correct track when changing course en route, departure, and especially on approach. But, the principles are the same. The difference with the mechanical HSI is that your fingers do the slewing.

The HSI is a piece of cake if taught properly.
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It only self-adjusts if you're using GPS. Tracking a VOR still requires turning the knob. But yes, superior.
 
tawood said:
Every book / video starts out saying that...
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Why did you truncate my quote and take it out of context? In my very next sentence, I explained exactly how to make it IDENTICAL to a standard VOR CDI.
 
Agree, there aren't too many HSI questions on the written exam.

Though I've usually seen people struggle with the CDI, not the HSI. IMO, the HSI is one of the simplest nav instruments out there.
Don't give up, try to find an explanation that clicks with you.
 
ZeroPapaGolf said:
It only self-adjusts if you're using GPS. Tracking a VOR still requires turning the knob. But yes, superior.
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Shy of a massive gov culsterfark GPS outage, why would you fly a eHSI like that?

Shy of a ILS, just fly the GPS overlay and monitor the NDB or VOR on a second nav head, it's easier, more accurate, and much more seemless.
 
James331 said:
Shy of a massive gov culsterfark GPS outage, why would you fly a eHSI like that?

Shy of a ILS, just fly the GPS overlay and monitor the NDB or VOR on a second nav head, it's easier, more accurate, and much more seemless.
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Just giving him all the facts.
 
dmspilot said:
Why did you truncate my quote and take it out of context? In my very next sentence, I explained exactly how to make it IDENTICAL to a standard VOR CDI.
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I was just trying to say I have no problems with understanding a vor. But when tested on a hsi, I don't get it.
And, (obviously) every book/video starts out saying that...nothing against your post, just saying. Settle down.
 
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ZeroPapaGolf said:
If you're flying a VOR radial that's not part of a published procedure, how would your EHSI know what it was unless you turned the knob?
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If not part of a database procedure, then you need to use OBS mode. I agree, no auto-slewing in OBS mode.
 
I want to learn carpentry, but I don't want to learn how to use a saw.
 
weilke said:
I want to learn carpentry, but I don't want to learn how to use a saw.
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Nope. More like I want to learn carpentry, but for the life of me I can't seem to learn to use a saw. So your advice is if I can't get it, keep trying for ever? Or quit carpentry?
I'm thinking of doing everything in carpentry but the saw...and that was my question if it's possible.
 
tawood said:
Nope. More like I want to learn carpentry, but for the life of me I can't seem to learn to use a saw. So your advice is if I can't get it, keep trying for ever? Or quit carpentry?
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It's hard to learn using a saw from books. Find a carpenter who can bring a saw, a square and a 2x4 and show you how to use it. It'll take less than an hour.
 
I sucked at HSI as well. Pretty sure I got them all wrong. You might as well learn them. If you get them wrong, the DPE is going to grill you on that, and possibly more to make sure you know it. (Mine sure as hell did.) So, if you get them right, you might keep some heat off you in your oral.
 
tawood said:
I was just trying to say I have no problems with understanding a vor. But when tested on a hsi, I don't get it.
And, (obviously) every book/video starts out saying that...
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You said that already. What you haven't said is whether my method works or not and, if not, how or where it fails.
 
MAKG1 said:
G1000 will set courses for you if it knows them. As in, VOR approaches. But flying airways by VOR requires setting courses just like it does in a six pack airplane.
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Don't some G-1000's have airways in their database? I know the G-5000 does.

In any case, with an IFR navigator it's still easier (and far more accurate) to build a flight plan with the airway fixes, all of which are certainly in the database.
 
aterpster said:
Don't some G-1000's have airways in their database? I know the G-5000 does.

In any case, with an IFR navigator it's still easier (and far more accurate) to build a flight plan with the airway fixes, all of which are certainly in the database.
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Yes, they do, but they don't set VORs for you.

I believe it's all of them with current software.
 
MAKG1 said:
G1000 will set courses for you if it knows them. As in, VOR approaches. But flying airways by VOR requires setting courses just like it does in a six pack airplane.
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I've never flown with a G1000, but the distinction with the Sandel is that auto-slew only happens if it's being driven by the GPS, as opposed to the NAV radio. It doesn't matter whether it's enroute or an approach, but it's the GPS that commands the auto-slew.
 
azure said:
I've never flown with a G1000, but the distinction with the Sandel is that auto-slew only happens if it's being driven by the GPS, as opposed to the NAV radio. It doesn't matter whether it's enroute or an approach, but it's the GPS that commands the auto-slew.
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The Sandel, EHSI, as nice as it is, it is an add-on. The Garmin G-XXXX series acts more like a flight management system. It if is tracking any course from the database, it will auto-slew when the database track indicates a course or heading change.
 
Interesting that folks are relating the HSI to a CDI rather than pointing out that it is just a plan view of the aircraft location relative to a radio beacon or a GPS course. Once you have seen an Aspen or G-whatever presentation of the HSI overlaying a map then it is crystal clear.

Then again I hated test question on instruments I'd never seen and had little opportunity to see too.
 
azure said:
I've never flown with a G1000, but the distinction with the Sandel is that auto-slew only happens if it's being driven by the GPS, as opposed to the NAV radio. It doesn't matter whether it's enroute or an approach, but it's the GPS that commands the auto-slew.
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When I select an ILS approach from my GNSs and activate, my 3308 will automatically slew to whatever fix, and when I switch from GPS1 or GPS3 to ILS, I have always found my LOC set to the inbound, come to think about it I really never have needed to touch the OBS knob.
 
I found out one thing about the conventional HSI: While it's true that you don't have to set the localizer course in order to get correct deviation indications, if you don't do it, then depending on how it is set, it can make it look like you are flying toward the localizer when you're actually flying away from it!

(I found this out while acting as a safety pilot.)
 
James331 said:
When I select an ILS approach from my GNSs and activate, my 3308 will automatically slew to whatever fix, and when I switch from GPS1 or GPS3 to ILS, I have always found my LOC set to the inbound, come to think about it I really never have needed to touch the OBS knob.
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Ditto, but I'm pretty sure it is being driven by the GPS when it slews the course pointer. Once I switch the Sandel input to the NAV radio part of the 480, I'm pretty sure no further slewing happens.

I have to admit, however, that I've been grounded for over a year and that's entirely from a memory that's becoming more and more distant. I'm going to need a nice thorough BFR (and IPC) when I get my Basic Med sign off in a few months.
 
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